Posted on 12/16/2009 7:38:57 AM PST by PanzerKardinal
A "Progressive" Anglican church in Auckland New Zealand paid to have this billboard placed near their parish.
Here are some excerpts written by the Vicar, Archdeacon Glynn Cardy on the church's website touting what he did.
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To make the news at Christmas it seems a priest just needs to question the literalness of a virgin giving birth. Many in society mistakenly think that to challenge literalism is to challenge the norms of Christianity. What progressive interpretations try to do however is remove the supernatural obfuscation and delve into the deeper spiritual truth of this festival.
Christian fundamentalism believes a supernatural male God who lived above sent his sperm into the womb of the virgin Mary. Although there were a series of miraculous events surrounding Jesus’ birth – like wandering stars and angelic choirs – the real miracle was his death and literal resurrection 33 years later. The importance of this literal resurrection is the belief that it was a cosmic transaction whereby the male God embraced humanity only after being satiated by Jesus’ innocent blood.
Progressive Christianity is distinctive in that not only does it articulate a clear view it is also interested in engaging with those who differ. Its vision is one of robust engagement. If every Christian thought the same not only would life be deadly boring but also the fullness of God would be diminished. This is the consequence of its incarnational theology: God is among us; even among those we disagree with or dislike.
(Excerpt) Read more at stmatthews.org.nz ...
> The thief on the cross was not baptised...
He was indeed, in a very real way, such that none of us can experience.
Baptism is, as you will be aware, a symbolic death and resurrection into the saving name of Jesus Christ.
The Thief on the Cross experienced a literal death with Jesus, and died with the hope of his resurrection, guaranteed by the words of Jesus “you shall be with me in Paradise.”
(That said, he may well have been baptised by water — you do not know that. John the Baptist had been very busy in the time leading up to his death.)
Catholics call that “baptism of desire.”
> again with the judging...
> the scripture reference for that one is Matthew 7:3
As supplied by me. Check carefully, you’ll see it at the end of the passage I gave.
> And that scripture doesnt apply to what I said...
> since mormons are not my brothers...
“Now Cain talked with Abel his brother; and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother and killed him.
“Then the LORD said to Cain, “Where is Abel your brother?”
He said, “I do not know. Am I my brother’s keeper?” (Genesis 4:8-9)
Unless you were descended from somebody other than Adam and Eve they most assuredly ARE your brethren and you most assuredly ARE your brother’s keeper.
Everybody is.
> No scripture reference...
No? Do put on your glasses, Nana. You will see it provided — it’s right there, in brackets, at the end of the quote.
Read thrice, preview twice, post once.
> Judge not, that ye be not judged. Luke 6:37
Also found in St Matthew 7, where I quoted it from. I thought the irony was too delicious not to avail myself of it.
> Were you talking to yourself ???
All healthy humans do. You only need be concerned when you answer yourself back.
> Catholics call that “baptism of desire.”
I have learned something new today — thanks! I’ve just looked it up, too. Makes perfect sense, as a concept.
The Church I used to attend used to literally baptize those who were terminally ill and expressing an interest in baptism.
The “baptism of desire” concept alleviates the need for that.
I shall have to read more, and ponder that.
OK
:)
Unless you were descended from somebody other than Adam and Eve they most assuredly ARE your brethren and you most assuredly ARE your brother’s keeper.
Everybody is.
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Have you ever told the mormons that ???
The mormons will help their own members, but non-mormons dont get anything from the multi billionaire Mormon Inc
Lots of members tithe money to spend on $4 billion malls fancy trimmings and all...
and for statues of Joey Smith
but not a penny for the children who are homeless on the streets of Salt Lake City...
Merry Smithmas...
Nana: The thief on the cross was not baptised...
Die: He was indeed, in a very real way, such that none of us can experience.
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Scripture ???
From the Bible...
If you can get baptized before death, all the better, but if the ill person who expressed faith in Christ and the desire to be baptzied dies suddenly, they are “covered.”
The Thief on the Cross experienced a literal death with Jesus, and died with the hope of his resurrection, guaranteed by the words of Jesus “you shall be with me in Paradise.”
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Scripture ???
From the Bible..
The thief knew nothing about the resurrection of Jesus or of his own...
He never mentioned anything like that...
He was in terrible pain, could hardly breathe and did not hold a long conversation with Jesus..
after rebuking the other thief...
“Don’t you fear God,” he said, “since you are under the same sentence? We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.” Luke 23:40, 41
His words to Jesus were...
“Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.” Luke 23:42
Then Jesus answered him..
“I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise.” Luke 23:43
I certainly will oppose any contamination of my own parish, but I cannot, in good conscience, say they don’t do any good. That is the Master’s call, not mine.
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Yes...
And this is what Jesus said about them...
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ Matthew 7:21-23
> but not a penny for the children who are homeless on the streets of Salt Lake City...
Now Nana, you’re being mischievous as well as unfair to the LDS. I do not know what your beef is with them, but it certainly isn’t a good look.
As a Kiwi you would surely know the Mormons do significant charitable works in Auckland and in the Islands. One of the most important things they do is teach their members to live providently: which is more than can be said for most folk.
Here is a link to the LDS humanitarian services. Don’t forget to follow their other links down the left side!
http://www.lds.org/humanitarianservices/0,19749,6208,00.html
> “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.” Luke 23:42
>
> Then Jesus answered him..
>
> “I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise.” Luke 23:43
Nana, you’ve answered your own question, found the relevant passages to support my point, and done my homework for me.
We need to do this more often.
Yes they use about 1% of the tithes they take in each year for “humanitarian services” to their own members and others along with a prerss conference...
Meanwhile a block from temple Square in SLC are hungry homleless children...
There are no LDS soup kitchens
There are no LDS shelters
There are no LDS free clinics
You can joke around and make kight of it untill the cows come home but the mormons are greedy stingy pagans...
Overseas ???
OK lets talk about Central and South America where the locals are told to give upp THEIR TEETH...
the teeth are sold to build ugly “temples” that those same locals are not “worthy” enough, according to the mormon gods, to even enter...
ej, thought you might like to be PINGed...
Listen: two entire families were baptized in Acts 16, and your "perhaps & likely" assumption that all were of a certain age just doesn't cut it. You can't add perhaps and likely to the scriptures -- that these family members were of a given age -- and come away with the truth...
Note your comment didn't even address Lydia's family -- only the Philippian jailers. "Perhaps" Lydia's family was of a given age doesn't cut it. Or, Lydia's family was "likely" to be of some responsive age. Where do you find that in Acts 16:14-15? (Or do you use the Magic 8-ball Commentary & insert that into the text?)
Why do you assume that when Acts 16:14 very clearly and specifically says that "The Lord opened HER heart" -- not her family's heart or "their" hearts.
You can't add into Scripture the plural word "hearts" when it's not there (Acts 16:14-15). And you can't guess, "Oh, the Lord must have opened their hearts, too -- right all at the exact same time."
Just as you can't add the perpetual virginity of Mary and come away with the truth...
(I don't...not Catholic)
REPENT and be baptized...
Yes...and a promise of which children are not to be excluded, says Acts 2: 38Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call."
Now Nana, you’re being mischievous as well as unfair to the LDS. I do not know what your beef is with them, but it certainly isn’t a good look.
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You got that all from my saying ...
“but not a penny for the children who are homeless on the streets of Salt Lake City...”
Kid yhou can be PC on your own...
I could care less about having a “good look”
Thats an aspect of mormonism, but its not Christianity...
jesus was not outr for a “{good look”
He told it like it is...
If you are scared of the truth and want mamby pamby watered down powerless religion, thats your choice...
As for me and my house we will serve the Lord..Joshua 24:15
Thats the Lord Jesus of the Bible...
Jesus who is God..
Not the mormon lord, Joey Smith or any of the millions of mormon gods who live on the planet Kolob...
Merry Smithmas...
The Thief on the Cross experienced a literal death with Jesus, and died with the hope of his resurrection, guaranteed by the words of Jesus “you shall be with me in Paradise.”
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Scripture ???
From the Bible..
Still waiting...
CRICKETS
So you saved yourself?
YOU were saved on such & such a day when
YOU decided that
YOUR belief would be something passing muster with God? Who gets the glory & credit there? (An awful lot of YOUs and YOURs in that system)
(Let's face it: Even a confession of belief is 100% the Holy Spirit...No one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit" -- 1 Cor. 12:3...My point is that it's Somebody Else who's inside of us -- the Holy Spirit the Prompter -- and Somebody Else who transcends us -- Jesus Christ the Savior -- who saves us. I'm sure you meant more than that, but you make it sound like checklist Christianity...believe this & that, and you're saved).
Besides, what did Jesus say?
Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved... (Mark 16:16)
If belief was all that was required, Jesus would have stopped right there. Now I know the rest of the verse makes it clear, as does the unbaptized thief on the cross, that God can and does work around baptism in keeping people from condemnation. So I don't ignore that, either. You can't interpret Mark 16:16 to say Jesus belittled or dissed baptism by ranking it of no importance...which, BTW, you keep doing.
Since you were ignorant of Matthew 28:18-20 -- which is the very commission upon which worldwide disciple-making is based, it doesn't surprise me to see you diss baptism in other ways as well.
Nana, you judge the LDS harshly. If you’re comfortable doing that, then I expect you must live the life of a Saint and will be able to withstand being held up to your same high standard.
Even if the LDS do not provide soup kitchens and homeless assistance where you live, there are other Charities that do: the Sally Ann is one that springs to mind. The SDAs to as well. You cannot fairly judge the LDS merely because they don’t do the same charitable work that others do.
The LDS do not publish their financials, so one is left to speculate how much they do spend on relief. You say it’s 1% of their gross income. I have heard it is closer to 3%. They certainly do have a separate fund for relief, and 100% of all monies earmarked to that fund get spent on relief.
From your writings I’d expect you’d prefer them to spend in the neighborhood of 10%, or even 30%?
Fair enough: no doubt you personally invest more in the homeless and hungry children. You needn’t say how much, but I’ll bet it’s more than that. Goodonya! — as we say in New Zealand. Bonza! — as they say in Oz. God must surely be pleased with your exemplary efforts.
No “Free Clinics?” Other folk do that, too: why overlap them?
I do know that, without fail, three religious organizations report, without fail, to Civil Defense events here. These are the Salvation Army, the Seventh Day Adventists and — you guessed it! — the Latter Day Saints. Without fail and... errr... Religiously.
> You can joke around and make kight of it untill the cows come home but the mormons are greedy stingy pagans...
You are a harsh judge, Nana — and much as I’d like to continue this joust with you I just can’t. There’s no shifting you from your views, no matter how I try and no matter how much Scripture I cite. I have a Patrol to prepare for tonite, so I’m going to have to leave this thread now.
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