Posted on 12/07/2009 7:25:56 AM PST by NYer
A friend wrote me about a school principal, a religious sister, speaking to a parent and requesting school funds. The gentleman was described as an "ultra-Catholic." My friend asked me: "What is that, do you know?" Evidently, the "non-ultra" principal thought it all right to siphon needed cash from the "ultra" parent. No strings were attached. Once the funds were donated, the non-ultra establishment would go its non-ultra way. The ultra was good for his cash, if he still had any. His ideas were, well, ultra.
Clearly, I cannot resist taking a stab at defining what a modern ultra-Catholic is. Some temptations are difficult to resist. Briefly, in today's multi-descriptor world, an ultra-Catholic is one who is a believing Catholic, a fairly rare bird. The country is full of ex-, disagreeing, non-practicing, right-to-choose, leave-me-alone Catholics. They tell us that they are better than their hapless co-religionists who naively think Catholicism is credibly the most intelligent thing on the public or private scene. In the public area, the most often cited "authority" on what Catholics believe is the dissenter. Catholics are the one group about which no one has to speak accurately.
A be-knighted ultra-Catholic holds the Nicene Creed as true. He thinks divine authority exists in the Church. He knows that he, a sinner, needs forgiveness. But he does not make his sins into some social-justice crusade. He does odd things like go to Mass on Sundays, even in Latin. He thinks it is fine to have children. He prefers to work for a living. He also knows that the Church is under siege in the culture. He belongs to the real minority.
The word "ultra" is Latin, meaning "beyond." We have things like ultra viruses, ultrasounds, and ultraviolet rays. In the Middle Ages, a pope was called "ultramontane" if he came not from Italy but from over the mountains. In France in the modern era, the ultramontanists were those Catholics who kept alliance with Rome. Jesuits, perish the thought, were said to belong to this alien group in the Gallican regime. Ultramontanists did not think the French government was divine. This latter view was considered to be rather extreme. I know this negative view of French glory is difficult for the average contemporary to grasp. We find divine authority neither in Rome nor in Paris but only in ourselves.
An ultra-Catholic today, however, is one who strives to do what Aquinas did: He distinguished between those who willingly practice virtue, because they understand that it is the noble thing to do, and those who practice it just to observe the minimum of the law.
In what is hopefully a pioneer endeavor, we even have a bishop explaining to a Kennedy what it means to be a Catholic. Bishop Thomas Tobin in Providence read what Congressman Kennedy said in the Congressional Record about his being a Catholic but still not "agreeing" with everything the Church held -- a highly unoriginal position, to be sure. The bishop wondered just what it was that the congressman did not hold, and whether these "un-held" things were central positions in the Church -- which, of course, they were. From the beginning, when this selective view of Catholicism first appeared, local bishops did not similarly inquire of politicians who invoked this fuzzy doctrine of themselves deciding what is Catholic, as if the politician were actually himself the pope.
Now about this ultra-Catholic character: We have all laughed at people said to be "holier than the Church." This latter remark is not a compliment. Unlike the congressman from Rhode Island, some Catholics add things instead of subtracting them, as is the current fashion. Usually, the additions are not really wrong or bad. Most devotions, like the scapulars, are additions in this sense. Aquinas said that adding to the law was not the problem; taking things away from it was.
In the contemporary world, the real enemy of the liberal culture is the "fanatic." He holds something. We have now reached the point where the fanatic is pretty much identified with the ultra-Catholic. What is dangerous is not some heretical notion of Christianity; it is Christianity itself, especially in its Catholic form. When many Catholics themselves do not know what they are and hold, we distinguish the Christian who defines his own beliefs from the one who holds the self-evident and revealed truths of the Faith.
When the non-ultra-Catholics identify themselves with a disordered culture, the ultra-Catholic is left standing by himself. The popes address their documents to "men of good will." We read in the Gospel of John: "I have given them thy word; and the world has hated them." Evidently, not all men have good will.
Once again, a FReeper spouts off ignorantly. "Rome" has had problems with the Catholic Church in America for generations for the very reasons stated in this article. If you want to understand this Church you deride, take a gander at Papal Encylicals (which are adamantly opposed to Socialism) and the Bible itself. That is what the Church believes and teaches, not the Liberation Theology spreading in our hemisphere.
A be-knighted ultra-Catholic holds the Nicene Creed as true. He thinks divine authority exists in the Church. He knows that he, a sinner, needs forgiveness. But he does not make his sins into some social-justice crusade. He does odd things like go to Mass on Sundays, even in Latin. He thinks it is fine to have children. He prefers to work for a living. He also knows that the Church is under siege in the culture. He belongs to the real minority.
The USCCB would have us believe that there are 69+ million Catholics in this country. If the USCCB is sufficiently content with the "cafeteria" Catholics' faith to count them as real ones, why should we ignore those bishops who (supposedly) sit in authority over Catholics, and listen only to conservative instead? If one must be a weekly-mass-attending, sweat-the-details Catholic to really count, are the Catholics on FR prepared to admit that the size of the "real" Catholic Church in America is at best double the [professed] size of the Southern Baptist Convention?
Catholic tradition fading in US (Evangelical Protestants now outnumber Catholics)
"Roman Catholics, the largest U.S. church with a reported 69 million members, start counting baptized infants as members and often dont remove people until they die. Most membership surveys dont actually count whos in the pews on Sunday. To be disenrolled, Catholics must write a bishop to ask that their baptisms be revoked..."....it is possible, for example, to be born Catholic, married Methodist, die Lutheran and still be listed as a member of the 1 billion-member Roman Catholic Church....
"...The Catholic understanding of membership is that a person becomes a member upon baptism and remains a member for life," Gautier said. "Whether you show up at church or not is not what determines whether you're a member."
-- from the thread When It Comes to Church Membership Numbers, the Devil's in the Details
...let me once again share the four-pronged typology that a veteran priest here in Washington, D.C., gave me a few years ago. There are, he said, four kinds of Catholics in this country and, thus, four Catholic votes on almost any issue. Any news report that lumps these groups together isnt worth very much.Related threads:* Ex-Catholics. Solid for the Democrats. Cultural conservatives have no chance.
* Cultural Catholics who may go to church a few times a year. This may be one of those all-important undecided voters depending on whats happening with the economy, foreign policy, etc. Leans to Democrats.
* Sunday-morning American Catholics. This voter is a regular in the pew and may even play some leadership role in the parish. This is the Catholic voter that is really up for grabs, the true swing voter that the candidates are after.
* The sweats the details Roman Catholic who goes to confession. Is active in the full sacramental life of the parish and almost always backs the Vatican, when it comes to matters of faith and practice. This is a very small slice of the American Catholic pie.
-- from the thread Bare Minimum Catholicism
Gosh, I guess we are. Pretty easy to qualify!
Not at all. They are as unbiblical as Rome's errant sacerdotalism and superstitious mechanisms for salvation...just in a different arena. Both these are stuck in the darkness.
**A be-knighted ultra-Catholic holds the Nicene Creed as true. **
LOL! I was going to say the same thing that you did — I would say that all the Catholics on FR are ultra-Catholics!
“Breaking of the Bread:
All: Lamb of God, you take away the sins of the world: have mercy on us.
Lamb of God, you take away the sins of the world: have mercy on us.
Lamb of God, you take away the sins of the world: grant us peace.
[kneel]
[This text may be sung or recited, and may be repeated several more times until the breaking of bread and the preparation of the communion vessels is finished; but the last phrase is always “Grant us peace.”]
Communion:
Priest: This is the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. Happy are those who are called to his supper.
*************
All: Lord, I am not worthy to receive you, but only say the word and I shall be healed.
************
The many called can either reject or embrace the Truth. I’d rather embrace the Truth.
It’s up to God to judge a person’s soul, not me. There is always Hope.
But it is up to me to see that the Truth is not compromised by others. The Bishops even shepherd errant sheep. ~Even errant Shepherds.
*Wow. Imagine, just imagine playing God and judging the state of another’s soul. Gives you the chills doesn’t it? Or rather a hot flash.
“They are as unbiblical as Rome’s errant sacerdotalism and superstitious mechanisms for salvation...just in a different arena. Both these are stuck in the darkness.”
In your opinion.
What you describe is not the Catholic Church.
If your mother was a Catholic then you must be too? Correct?
St. Michael, the Archangel, defend us in battle
Be our protection against the wickedness
and snares of the devil;
May God rebuke him, we humbly pray,
and do thou, O Prince of the heavenly host,
by the power of God,
Cast into hell Satan and all evil spirits
who prowl through the world seeking the ruin of souls.
Amen
+
Your opinion about the Catholic Church is just that, your OPNION.
Protestantism's embrace of abortion, homosexuality and female clergy IS NOT an opinion, it is an observation of factual events.
Ping for later
Yes, but my paternal line was Jewish converts to Lutheranism (I think for self-protection) and then to Catholicism.
My maternal line has been Catholic for centuries.
Interestingly enough, my husbands line was steeped in some variant of Hillbilly Protestantism and when I researched his line, it was Catholic from 1560 back.
He’s now Catholic.
We welcome your husband and you.
Is there an echo in here? The grave trouble with Rome is that their theology of "traditions" has supplanted the very Scripture that they claimed to have delivered to the world. Of course, the rest of us know this is another self-aggrandizing pipe dream that the men in bathrobes and Prada shoes foist on the public. However, if they would read the Book, they would see that their cult was debunked centuries ago.
Nonsense. Your interpretation of Scripture might disagree with two thousand years of Church teachings, but this in no way invalidates Church teachings.
Of course, the rest of us know this is another self-aggrandizing pipe dream
What do you mean by "the rest of us"? Protestant groups are every bit as likely to agree with the Church as they are with another Protestant group. The ONLY thing that Protestants really seem to completely agree with each other on is their rejection of the Primacy of Saint Peter.
However, if they would read the Book, they would see that their cult was debunked centuries ago.
Again, that is simply YOUR OPINION based on YOUR INTERPRETATION.
Hillbilly Prostesantism!! OMG!! That does paint a picture of some of my friends!!
The opposite is a Cafeteria Catholic......or a Jesuit.
“Is there an echo in here?”
Of course not! It’s only the assent of Catholics who understand their own faith and disagree with those who have formed faulty personal opinions that reflect their bigotry.
” That does paint a picture...”
For sure! But, it wasn’t hard for my husband to see with his eyes and his heart, mind and soul, the Truth of the Catholic Church.
What he has that informed him is his absolute humility. He’s an amazing man. God simply loves him and brought him home. I’ve been a better person for knowing him for these many decades.
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