Posted on 11/30/2009 6:01:03 PM PST by delacoert
I’ll just leave this here…
Before a defense of any kind of religious discrimination, one ought to make all of the necessary disclaimers: of course I oppose government-sponsored discrimination, and I certainly would not support the kind of absurd treatment described by Steven Reinhart in his piece featured below. That being said, there is a legitimate case to be made for judging any candidate for office by his religious convictions.
In late 2007, Mitt Romney made his somewhat-famous speech on religion, where he spoke the following words:
“Freedom requires religion just as religion requires freedom. Freedom opens the windows of the soul so that man can discover his most profound beliefs and commune with God. Freedom and religion endure together, or perish alone.”
Similarly, Romney has stated: “I believe in my Mormon faith and I endeavor to live by it…my faith is the faith of my fathers. I will be true to them and to my beliefs.”
If freedom requires religion, if his Mormon faith sustains his life and he will be true to those practices, then I’m at an utter loss as to why we should ignore Romney’s religious beliefs when evaluating his fitness for the White House.
We ask plenty of questions of any Evangelical Christian candidate: what do his beliefs about the nature of God, the nature of the cosmos, and the meaning of man’s life mean for his potential tenure in office? But for whatever reason, these questions are looked at as unnecessarily piercing and prejudiced when asked of a member of a minority faith.
When Sarah Palin gave her fumbling answer about Israel’s settlements, several commentators jumped on her faith, wondering whether she subscribed to the bizarre but potent sect of modern Christianity that believes in the imminence of the End Times. Will anyone ask Mitt Romney about the oddities of the dogma of the Mormon Church? There are plenty of Mormon doctrines that may strike people as a bit odd — and rightly so. It is established in the church that the devout can reach the upper echelons of heaven and eventually become gods themselves, able to create their own universes and govern them as they see fit (all while supervised by the One True God). Why is it that when I bring this up to Romney fans, I am dismissed as a bigot?
As an atheist, I both understand and accept that in a predominantly Christian society, my thoughts on religion are necessarily going to open me up to questions. If I were to ever run for office (don’t count on that, by the way), I would not expect my supporters would try to ward off any questions about my atheism with the victim-card of discrimination. One’s philosophy of religion contributes profoundly to his worldview and thus is a completely valid criterion by which to partially evaluate a candidate’s fitness for office.
I view all religions as equally bizarre and irrational. But mainstream Christianity is often adopted as a cultural guise, meant for purposes of assimilation with the majority. Probe most self-described Christians and you’ll find plenty of deviation from standard dogma. Devotion to Mormonism, which is completely outside of the American mainstream, requires a certain level of commitment. To what extent will Romney’s faith influence his decision-making? I ask that question of devoted Evangelicals and judge them accordingly, and I will do the same of a Mormon. And I am not going to apologize for that.
Quite a mouthfull of wordsmithing there. The RCC is squarely against the doctrines of mormonism, do not accept mormon baptism and further pick it apart on various sites such as this one.
Lets cut to the chase, grasshopper...
it was your own Hinckley who inform us that mormons do not worship the Christian Jesus of the Bible...
“There are those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints do not believe in the traditional Christ. No, I don’t. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak.”
– LDS President Gordon B. Hinckley (LDS Church News, June 20, 1998)
“We don’t bash your church, why bash ours?”
For those Mormons who say their church “never attacks other churches.”
1. “I was answered that I must join none of them (Christian churches), for they were all wrong…their creeds were an abomination in [God’s] sight; that those professors were all corrupt” (Joseph Smith—History 1:19).
2. “Orthodox Christian views of God are pagan rather than Christian” (Mormon Doctrine of Deity, B. H. Roberts [General Authority], 116).
3. “Are Christians ignorant? Yes, as ignorant of the things of God as the brute beast” (Journal of Discourses, John Taylor [3rd Mormon President], 13:225).
4. “The Roman Catholic, Greek, and Protestant church, is the great corrupt, ecclesiastical power, represented by great Babylon” (Orson Pratt, Writings of an Apostle, Orson Pratt, n. 6, 84).
5. “All the priests who adhere to the sectarian [Christian] religions of the day with all their followers, without one exception, receive their portion with the devil and his angels” (The Elders Journal, Joseph Smith, ed. Vol. 1, n. 4, 60).
6. [Under the heading, “Church of the Devil,” Apostle Bruce R. McConkie lists:] “The Roman Catholic Church specifically—singled out, set apart, described, and designated as being ‘most abominable above all other churches’ (I Ne. 13:5)” (Mormon Doctrine, 1958, 129).
7. “Believers in the doctrines of modern Christendom will reap damnation to their souls (Morm. 8; Moro. 8)” (Mormon Doctrine, 1966, Bruce R. McConkie, 177).
gee, I hope it starts working soon. :)
Good grief, people, get a grip.
Mormons are in for a shocker when they wake up in Hell.
“The bigotry of the cabal however was in full splendor & continues this day even though the election is over.”
Why in the world do you think evangelicals should violate
their consciences to vote for a cultist?? For what purpose?
Has it occurred to you that their reasons for casting their
own votes are theirs alone and not yours?
It seems that there is bigotry among Mitt supporters like
you, that insist their way is the only right way and
condemn the religious convictions of everyone else as wrong.
This despite the published mormonite statement of faith
that says a man should be free to follow their conscience.
Pure Mittgotry.
Mitt-go-try: The belief of a Mittgot that others should
violate their consciences in the way they vote.
Synonyms: Kolobian, histrionic, fluffy.
Please show us where we have lied. C’mon give some proof. Specific proof. Most of us speak from personal knowledge and experience, from years in the Mormon church.
And bigotry? A) we do not hate Mormons and B)most of us still have loved ones in the LDS church. Just because we speak out against their blasphemies (which even the Catholic Church agrees with us on) does not make us “bigots”.
BTW, are you Catholic or LDS? Or perhaps a former Catholic who is now LDS?
No more so than the Latins believed that the Orthodox denied the true nature of Christ, or the Gnostics, or the Cathars, or one hundred other Christian sects who have a different view of Christ’s nature. This division in Christianity has been the fodder of Islam for over 1000 years. Enough already.
Mosiah - written origionally in reformed egyptian in 130—124 BC - yet use the Greek name Christ 120 years before he was born.
The LDS Church News reported: "In bearing testimony of Jesus Christ, President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints 'do not believe in the traditional ChristNo, I don't.. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak.
I make no equivalency at all, nor do I attempt to reconcile the competing understandings of Christ within the major mainstream Christian denominations. I merely point out the Mormon scriptures say and how they view themselves as opposed to that other great work of fiction, the Koran, which in fact constitutes a far greater threat to Christianity.
My Hinckly? I’m not Mormon, and never have been. My beef is with Islam.
Yes R...
What you said in #200...
Women dont have a say in mormonism
They are not free...
It is only in Christianity where they are set free by Jesus...
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for you are all one in Christ Jesus. Galations 3:28
And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. John 8:32
If the Son therefore shall make you free, you shall be free indeed. John 8:36
Jesus said to GovernmentShrinker, “I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. No man or woman comes to the Father except by ME” John 14:6
I’m not bashing anyone’s church...I’m trying to help everyone who professes THEMSELVES to be a Christian to understand that the greatest threat to all of us is Islam. And again...I’m not Mormon.
In the spiritual world I have less problem with Islam than I do the LDS.
Muslims are Muslims, they don't pretend to be anything else, don't steal ideas from another faith, distort it, degrade it, inject it with false new ideas and shroud and surround it with fantasy stories of fictional peoples and fictional lands.
That is what makes MormonISM stand out among all else.
It steals point blank form the true faith, one based on reality, on the real world as well as the works and mysteries of the one God and takes that and twisted and distorts it, changes large portions of it wholesale, cheapens it and reduces God to a level that gives them the eventual possibility of parity with God himself. Then to add ‘legitimacy’ it surrounds it self with false scripture and tales of fantastic people and places in order to “justify” its changes and deprivations.
This could have been dismissed and was for many years to a great extent, but the Public Relations drive over the past 30-40 years to now be “Christian” and indeed proclaim itself “one of the family” if not out "Christian the Christians" has required the followers of the true faith, at least the ones bold enough and studied enough to do so, to stand up and point out the fallacy, and given the original positions of it founders, the view Smith and others had about the Christian faith as well the now new and quite ironic desire to be “Christian” despite a history of eschewing the label when they were “better than that”,
Well...
Like I said that is where the problem lies. Muslims are Muslims, Jews are Jews, Buddhist are Buddhist and while I don't agree with their teachings and wish them to see the light, they are not passing themselves off as something else, as a better "Christian mouse trap" vs the other Christian denominations. In that regard the LDS is no more Christian than a Buddhist temple named after Jesus or a Muslim who says "in Christ's name we pray" after kneeling on the prayer rug.
If, while discussing theology, you discovered that my notion of Jesus has him with a beak and he flew a spaceship from Planet Snork, would you accept my viewpoint as reality over Biblical accounts?
I doubt it.
Amazing how LDS folk try and use the “Whores of Babylon” when it suits their purpose.
Even if it means lying about their stance or doctrine.
...trying to argue the validity or invalidity of the Mormon scriptures is not only pointless to my mind, but entirely beside the point. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints does profess to follow Christ...Islam seeks to destroy all Christian demoninations. By some estimates there are about as many Muslims in the country as Mormons, and over 1.2 billion worldwide. WAKE UP PEOPLE.
What makes you think facts are going to work against us!!!
-MomonDUDE second cousin twice removed...
BTW FR has had those videos of Romney telling us how he has been an abortion pushing king for 40 years etc...
He also boasts that he has helped “break the glass ceiling” for women...
He said that lie in 1994...
Up to 1994 no woman had ever been a priest, or apostle or bishop or prophet or president in the mormon cult...
And Romney still hasnt broken that so called glass ceiling for women...
Typical lies from Romney...
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