Judge Romney By His Religion? I Do It, and So Should You.

Before a defense of any kind of religious discrimination, one ought to make all of the necessary disclaimers: of course I oppose government-sponsored discrimination, and I certainly would not support the kind of absurd treatment described by Steven Reinhart in his piece featured below. That being said, there is a legitimate case to be made for judging any candidate for office by his religious convictions.

In late 2007, Mitt Romney made his somewhat-famous speech on religion, where he spoke the following words:

“Freedom requires religion just as religion requires freedom. Freedom opens the windows of the soul so that man can discover his most profound beliefs and commune with God. Freedom and religion endure together, or perish alone.”

Similarly, Romney has stated: “I believe in my Mormon faith and I endeavor to live by it…my faith is the faith of my fathers. I will be true to them and to my beliefs.”

If freedom requires religion, if his Mormon faith sustains his life and he will be true to those practices, then I’m at an utter loss as to why we should ignore Romney’s religious beliefs when evaluating his fitness for the White House.

We ask plenty of questions of any Evangelical Christian candidate: what do his beliefs about the nature of God, the nature of the cosmos, and the meaning of man’s life mean for his potential tenure in office? But for whatever reason, these questions are looked at as unnecessarily piercing and prejudiced when asked of a member of a minority faith.

When Sarah Palin gave her fumbling answer about Israel’s settlements, several commentators jumped on her faith, wondering whether she subscribed to the bizarre but potent sect of modern Christianity that believes in the imminence of the End Times. Will anyone ask Mitt Romney about the oddities of the dogma of the Mormon Church? There are plenty of Mormon doctrines that may strike people as a bit odd — and rightly so. It is established in the church that the devout can reach the upper echelons of heaven and eventually become gods themselves, able to create their own universes and govern them as they see fit (all while supervised by the One True God). Why is it that when I bring this up to Romney fans, I am dismissed as a bigot?

As an atheist, I both understand and accept that in a predominantly Christian society, my thoughts on religion are necessarily going to open me up to questions. If I were to ever run for office (don’t count on that, by the way), I would not expect my supporters would try to ward off any questions about my atheism with the victim-card of discrimination. One’s philosophy of religion contributes profoundly to his worldview and thus is a completely valid criterion by which to partially evaluate a candidate’s fitness for office.

I view all religions as equally bizarre and irrational. But mainstream Christianity is often adopted as a cultural guise, meant for purposes of assimilation with the majority. Probe most self-described Christians and you’ll find plenty of deviation from standard dogma. Devotion to Mormonism, which is completely outside of the American mainstream, requires a certain level of commitment. To what extent will Romney’s faith influence his decision-making? I ask that question of devoted Evangelicals and judge them accordingly, and I will do the same of a Mormon. And I am not going to apologize for that.

EJ,EJ,EJ!!

Wow!!!

I don't post as much as in the past due to a new bus. venture & getting ramped up for the next election cycle. You state that I've only posted on LDS threads lately. True. The difference? I'm defending my church & my beliefs. Do I construct threads to tear down other religions, day after day, after day? No!

I have differences w/ your religion. I have often posted the reasons in a cogent reasoned manner IN RESPONSE to attacks. I have used quotes from Christianity's fore fathers such as Hippolytus, Origen, etc., who were obviously not LDS in the 2nd & 3rd centuries to further my arguments. I have used scriptures from the Bible as well. You may disagree & I can respect that. What I can't respect is the vitriol in return.

The point is, you don't find any LDS that start threads specifically designed to attack another faith that I'm aware of.

I don't have a lot of time these days to post as my posting history would indicate. When I do, it is often to defend against attacks. Some may hypocritically call that whining. Hmmm. I wonder what you say to liberals & secularists that slam Christianity? Is it whining when you defend your position & decry the unjust nature of an MSM that fails to report Christianity correctly? Interesting.

In regards to Romney, as you know, I was a Fred head & Hunter supporter long before jumping on the Romney wagon. The sad fact was, neither was viable! Not enough juice to carry the day or else they would have. Left w/ the choice of Romney, McCain, or Huckeby, the choice for me was clear. I would much rather have Romney in there now than the current occupant of 1600 Penn. Would I have rather had Fred or Hunter? Sure! But the fact is that they weren't viable as history proved.

Romney didn't lose b/c he wasn't viable, as he took the majority of the conservative vote. He lost due to open primaries where he lost to the crossover & indy votes. Otherwise, our economy & fiscal situation would be far different situation now. Was Romney the perfect candidate? No. Was he the best choice of crappy choices at the time? IMHO yes. It's an opinion. I may be wrong, you may be. The difference is I tried to post civilly (not always succeeding mind you). You & the cabal? Rarely.

The other difference? I didn't try & hide my bigotry behind the mask of a candidate I didn't like. There were many who voiced their displeasure for Romney w/o spending the rest of their time carpet bombing LDS on the anti-Mormon threads. I didn't tag them w/ bigotry b/c it was clear they just had a problem w/ Mitt, not his religion. I can understand that.

Conservatives can disagree on those points. The bigotry of the cabal however was in full splendor & continues this day even though the election is over.

The day I start posting threads sand blasting “Born Agains” or Catholics for no other reason than to sand blast, then come to me & complain about my lack of conservative posts & credentials. Until then, I will continue from time to time to defend against bigotry & continue my work in the field where most Conservatives I work w/ are totally embarrassed by the cabal's tactics. If you consider your tactics against the church as conservative, you might be very well sadly mistaken. Most Evangelicals I talk to that frequent this site are embarrassed by your constant attacks, a feeling expressed by others here on various threads

For what it's worth. It must be lonely when these negative thoughts about a church seemingly consume your every day. I'm sure you think you're doing the Lord's work. We'll see in the end. But it must be a lonely, angry existence none the less.

"At least people know that Muslims are not Christian. Does everyone know that Mormons are not Christian? Martin Luther once said that he would rather have a wise Turk (Muslim) for a prince than a stupid Christian. The point that he was making is that you do not have to be a Christian in order to be a secular ruler, such as a prince or a POTUS. There is a difference between the two kingdoms. My reservations about voting for a Mormon for POTUS is not based upon whether a Mormon is wise or not, but my concern is about those that might be lured into believing that Mormons are Christian."

Your Martin Luther quote is apocryphal, there's no evidence that he ever said any such thing. But since you're fond of his quotes, here's one you might find instructive:

“I would very much regret the rule of the Turk; indeed, his rule would be intolerable in Germany” - Martin Luther (Luther’s Works, vol. 46, p. 198)

And here are some other quotes of use regarding Islam:

"Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Paleologus

"Islam, this absurd theology of an immoral Bedouin, is a rotting corpse which poisons our lives." - Mustafa Kemal Ataturk

“In the seventh century of the Christian era, a wandering Arab of the lineage of Hagar (mohammed), the Egyptian, combining the powers of transcendent genius, with the preternatural energy of a fanatic, and the fraudulent spirit of an impostor, proclaimed himself as a messenger from Heaven, and spread desolation and delusion over an extensive portion of the earth. Adopting from the sublime conception of the Mosaic law, the doctrine of one omnipotent god; he connected indissolubly with it, the audacious falsehood, that he was himself his prophet and apostle. Adopting from the new Revelation of Jesus, the faith and hope of immortal life, and of future retribution, he humbled it to the dust by adapting all the rewards and sanctions of his religion to the gratification of the sexual passion. He poisoned the sources of human felicity at the fountain, by degrading the condition of the female sex, and the allowance of polygamy; and he declared undistinguishing and exterminating war, as a part of his religion, against all the rest of mankind. The essence of his doctrine was violence and lust: to exalt the brutal over the spiritual part of human nature...Between these two religions, thus contrasted in their characters, a war of twelve hundred years has already raged. The war is yet flagrant...While the merciless and dissolute dogmas of the false prophet shall furnish motives to human action, there can never be peace upon the earth, and good will towards men” -John Quincy Adams

“How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property - either as a child, a wife, or a concubine - must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men. Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities. Thousands become the brave and loyal soldiers of the Queen: all know how to die. But the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytising faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science - the science against which it had vainly struggled - the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome." - Winston Churchill

You are wrong to fear the Mormons before the Muslims, painfully wrong. Your disagreement with Mormons, who profess that Jesus Christ was the son of God and the savior of mankind is one of doctrine – it is not a wholehearted and utterly irreconcilable clash of both culture, politics, and religion that has burned for over a millennium. Islam’s rise seeks and indeed requires Christianity’s destruction, and that includes Mormons; it is the single greatest threat to mankind of all religions, and especially the followers of Christ.

If you want to argue with Mormons about their faith, or argue that they do not believe in Christ, you have a mountain of Mormon scripture to overcome (see below), but don't argue for a moment that Islam is preferable, it is the scourge of the Earth.

2 Nephi 25:26 26 And we talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, we prophesy of Christ, and we write according to our prophecies, that our children may know to what source they may look for a remission of their sins.

2 Nephi 31:13 13 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, I know that if ye shall follow the Son, with full purpose of heart, acting no hypocrisy and no deception before God, but with real intent, repenting of your sins, witnessing unto the Father that ye are willing to take upon you the name of Christ, by baptism—yea, by following your Lord and your Savior down into the water, according to his word, behold, then shall ye receive the Holy Ghost; yea, then cometh the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost; and then can ye speak with the tongue of angels, and shout praises unto the Holy One of Israel.

Mormon 9: 12, 13 12 Behold, he created Adam, and by Adam came the fall of man. And because of the fall of man came Jesus Christ, even the Father and the Son; and because of Jesus Christ came the redemption of man. 13 And because of the redemption of man, which came by Jesus Christ, they are brought back into the presence of the Lord; yea, this is wherein all men are redeemed, because the death of Christ bringeth to pass the resurrection, which bringeth to pass a redemption from an endless sleep, from which sleep all men shall be awakened by the power of God when the trump shall sound; and they shall come forth, both small and great, and all shall stand before his bar, being redeemed and loosed from this eternal band of death, which death is a temporal death.

Moroni 10:32, 33 32 Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ; and if by the grace of God ye are perfect in Christ, ye can in nowise deny the power of God. 33 And again, if ye by the grace of God are perfect in Christ, and deny not his power, then are ye sanctified in Christ by the grace of God, through the shedding of the blood of Christ, which is in the covenant of the Father unto the remission of your sins, that ye become holy, without spot.

Mosiah 3:8 8 And he shall be called Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of heaven and earth, the Creator of all things from the beginning; and his mother shall be called Mary.

2 Nephi 31:20,21 20 Wherefore, ye must press forward with a steadfastness in Christ, having a perfect brightness of hope, and a love of God and of all men. Wherefore, if ye shall press forward, feasting upon the word of Christ, and endure to the end, behold, thus saith the Father: Ye shall have eternal life. 21 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.

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