Posted on 11/23/2009 10:49:30 AM PST by Mr Rogers
Do you think when Jesus fasted in the wilderness for forty days it was for penitence? Was it for the sins of the community? Fasting and prayer certainly have a place and purpose according to Scripture, but to think that this self-denial is for the purpose of paying the price for sins (self and others') is to totally trash the whole idea of the true and only sacrifice for sin - death. No, fasting with prayer is a good and blessed way to connect with the Lord and deepens our prayer life with him.
Jesus fasted and prayed in preparation before he began his three year ministry on earth. I can say with certainty that he did not do so as a penance for his sins.
No, and I was speaking of Moses who was not divine so your point makes no sense
but to think that this self-denial is for the purpose of paying the price for sins (self and others') is to totally trash
Let's see what the Scriptures say about what Moses did...
Deuteronomy 9:18- And I fell down before the Lord as before, forty days and nights neither eating bread, nor drinking water, for all your sins, which you had committed against the Lord, and had provoked him to wrath:
Do you think God forgave the Israelites their sins as individuals based on what Moses did?
“Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.” - Heb 9
Moses was recounting the times that he prayed that God would not destroy the Israelites as a nation. Frankly, this might be a good time in OUR nation’s history to imitate Moses, and fast and pray for America - but it won’t result in God forgiving anyone their sin.
“Anyone who really wanted to get rid of suffering would have to get rid of love before anything else, because there can be no love without suffering, because it always demands an element of self-sacrifice, because, given temperamental differences and the drama of situations, it will always bring with it renunciation and pain.”
If “suffering is the inner side of love”, will we suffer in heaven?
LOL! And Roman Catholics call Luther crazy.
Big difference is Luther finally figured out that there was nothing he could do to satisfy God’s righteous wrath. No penance, no amount of confession, nothing.
It is all of God, He provides all.
What Pope Benedict XVI wrote as Cardinal Ratzinger is not meant to be taken out of the context that it was meant for people who are alive here on earth. I'm sure you know the Catholic Church does not teach people suffer in heaven?
Moses fasting must have worked than since God recognized his sacrifice for the sins of Israel,which proves you're wrong about God forgiving sins through penance.
Also,when you're asking to fast for America you're essentially asking God to forgive sinners of their sins and grant them Grace by your sacrifice . If you don't believe this it would make no sense to sacrifice through fasting,Dear Brother.
I wish you a Blessed Thanksgiving to you and your family
“Moses fasting must have worked than since God recognized his sacrifice for the sins of Israel,which proves you’re wrong about God forgiving sins through penance.”
Nations may or may not sin, but they certainly are not atoned for by the blood of Christ. Praying for America is more analogous to praying for Sodom and Gomorrah...that there be enough righteous left for God to spare a land in spite of the evil that is also there.
Notice the incident you referred to:
“30The next day Moses said to the people, “You have sinned a great sin. And now I will go up to the LORD; perhaps I can make atonement for your sin.” 31So Moses returned to the LORD and said, “Alas, this people has sinned a great sin. They have made for themselves gods of gold. 32But now, if you will forgive their sin—but if not, please blot me out of your book that you have written.” 33But the LORD said to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against me, I will blot out of my book. 34 But now go, lead the people to the place about which I have spoken to you; behold, my angel shall go before you. Nevertheless, in the day when I visit, I will visit their sin upon them.” 35Then the LORD sent a plague on the people, because they made the calf, the one that Aaron made.” - Exodus 32
Earlier, Moses argues that God’s power will be disrespected by other nations if He destroys Israel. In this section, God tells Moses He will not destroy the nation, but He will judge the sin.
I wouldn’t recommend using this passage to suggest hair shirts and beating ourselves with sticks or whips will atone for anyone’s sin...
That said, my best wishes to you and yours this Thanksgiving. We often disagree, but the opportunity to spend time in God’s Word, thinking about your posts, is welcome.
Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours as well. We have so much to be thankful for, amen.
BTTT
Many saints used self-mortification in their lives. This is nothing new at all.
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