Posted on 10/24/2009 5:30:59 PM PDT by Unam Sanctam
“I do not object to the Latin Mass for those who have sufficient training in Latin. I do think the English Mass attracts those who don’t.”
Attending Mass was the training in Latin that many millions of Catholics had for well over 1000 years.Most of these folks had never seen the inside of a school room.
In the early and mid ‘60s these “children of the fifties” and forties were still faithfully attending Mass. The statistics clearly show that Mass attendance started dropping after the introduction of English into the Mass in the mid-sixties when so many of our pastors and bishops lied to us by saying that Latin had been outlawed.
With the adoption of the Novus Ordo Mass in 1969, the abandonment of Catholic Sacred Music, the physical destruction of our churches (removal of Communion rails, statues, altars, etc.), much of the green growth of young Catholicism was successfully severed from its roots and largely disappeared.
The English 1969 Mass with its banal OCP pop-slop attracts very few.
I would bet that there are more ex-Catholics in my community than there are practicing Catholics.
“The vocabulary is not readily understandable by the average Catholic,” Bishop Trautman said.
I think part of that statement was left off. The correct quote is:
“The vocabulary is not readily understandable by the average Catholic, thanks to the untiring efforts of bishops like me. Keep ‘em stupid we always say, the less they know about the faith the more we can get away with.”
Freegards
Slavishly literal? It’s a good thing I’m just a stupid lay person who doesn’t know what “slavish” means, or else I might be offended.
Why must it be in street language? Maybe, just maybe, if the language were to employ toughie words, we might encounter mystery again. Our minds might be awakened to what is truly happening at Mass.
And that isn't so that so-and-so can now get up into the ambo and do his or her thing. Or to be the first EMHC up to the sanctuary and get to hold the ciborium.
We're talking about our Salvation...our eternal destiny. And perhaps in recovering mysterious words, we'll get our eyes off our navels and allow heaven's momentary lifting of the veil to pierce our eyes and hearts so that we may fall on our faces and worship God as he truly deserves to be loved and adored.
We have had 40 long years of wretched vernacular. Has it made us more reverent? Has it made us day-by-day fall on our faces in adoration of the ineffable gift that is Christ in the Blessed Sacrament? Instead, our belief in the Real Presence has eroded and we have lost what is most important in worship, and that is humility. It is in humility that God fills our souls because we know who we are and Who He is.
So use the hard language. Let God's transcendence push your borders, let him grow you in your understanding of the depth of His Otherness. Then you'll know who you truly are.
Less than 2 years until he turns 75. Deo gratia.
Great idea!
That pack behavior in catz makes me very nervous.
I think he's out of the picture; he's the former head of the liturgy committee. (Bishop Serratelli is the current head.) Trautperson's just fussing from the sidelines.
Besides, the Vatican has said WRT the translation project, essentially (putting this in the common vernacular so my fellow Catholics can understand): "Yo, fellas, you can do this thing with us, or we can do it for you, but either way it's gonna get done, so deal with it".
ROFLM[deleted]O !!
You wrote:
“Actually, that’s not the way it happened.”
Yeah, actually it is.
“I was there. The New Mass did not cause the Church to lose attendance.”
It’s not the only reason, but it is a major factor - and still is.
“It was caused by the shortage of Catholic schools.”
No.
“Immediately after WWII when our veterans returned from overseas, there was an immense shortage of homes. The suburbs expanded almost overnight, often without space for enough Catholic churches and schools.”
Irrelevant. Ever notice how many families send their kids to Catholic schools but DO NOT attend Mass on Sundays? That’s actually quite common.
“The result was a whole generation of children, many of whom never received proper education in the Mass.”
Again, no. Yes, there was a shortage of Catholic schools. catholics schools back east combatted that by having two different sessions in one day. The diocese combatted that by creating a massive CCD network. Clearly the shortage of Catholic schools was NOT the problem. There were almost no Catholic schools in America before the 1840s yet Mass attendance was DRAMATICALLY higher than today. Your explanation makes no sense. Go to many parishes today and you might discover that the most devout Catholic kids are often the ones NOT GOING to Catholic schools.
“I recall my father advising our Pastor just before the end of the war that it was time to expand the school because there would be an influx of veterans’ children needing a Catholic education. The Pastor just didn’t believe it would happen. It HAPPENED. And it happened all over the country.”
Yes, and thousands of Catholic schools were built in the 1950s and 1960s. And that all ground to a halt shortly after Vatican II. Coincidence?
“The New Mass was a Godsend to the children of the fifties who hadn’t had the advantage of instruction in the Latin Mass.”
Nonsense. If it was a Godsend then that generation would be faithful. That generation, however, is NOT very faithful overall.
“Then came the sixties, drugs, immorality and the “new” sexual freedom. Fewer and fewer young adults and their teenagers attended Mass. Please, blame it on the sixties and the drug culture, and the shortage of Catholic schools in the fifties, not the New Mass.”
I’ll blame all of them - because all were blameworthy in that regard.
“After twelve years of Catholic school education, including the Latin Mass, I enjoy knowing that any one who walks into my church today can understand what both the priest and the congregation are saying even though most schools have stopped teaching Latin.”
(sigh) After twelve years of Catholic school education, you should be smart enough to know a literate person could always know what the priest is saying by looking in his missal!!! Why not spit out some other sill caricature? Here’s what I know: after 12 years of Catholic education and even more years attending both the Latin Mass and the New Mass at the same time, I know that the average Latin Mass goer knows the Mass, the Faith and the doctrines of the Catholic Church BETTER than even many well educated New Mass goers. Why is that do you think?
“I do not object to the Latin Mass for those who have sufficient training in Latin.”
In your missal IT IS IN ENGLISH. You need no training in Latin as all to follow along. Usually it takes a person - new to the Latin Mass - about three visits to figure out what is going on. After that they get it just fine. I have introduced many people to the Latin mass, including whole families, over the last 14 years and they’ve been transformed by it. None of them had significant problems understanding it or getting it. Give them a missal, show them how to use it, and they get it down in just a few visits. It’s really no different for people going to the New Mass. They have to go to Mass several times to figure out what is happening when. The difference is that I can guarantee that a person going to the Latin Mass will learn more and better theology than the person going to the average New Mass. Period.
“I do think the English Mass attracts those who don’t.”
The Latin Mass is attracting a lot of people who have NEVER, EVER studied Latin a single day in their lives. Explain that. Can you?
I think you’re being short sighted. The New Mass - as our pope has admitted - was an inorganic liturgy forcible imposed upon an unprepared laity. It was NOT envisioned by Vatican II, it was asked for by Vatican II, and Pope Paul VI probably knew it was a mistake after he issued it - or so say those who have examined his words and actions in this regard. The New Mass is better than no Mass. That doesn’t mean it is as good as the old Mass. Quite frankly how could it be when it isn’t what Vatican II wanted, it is so poorly translated that it still isn’t even approved by the Vatican and it is known to have helped drop Mass attendance through the floor.
O hai! How u?
I not spk KATZ bt m OK. :-)
All the training in Latin you need, just $59.95 (postage not included)
Dear Bp. Trautman:
In other words, you either think those of us in the pew are too stupid to look up words we don’t know in the dictionary, or is it that once the new translation comes out all of us in the pew will think that you and your fellow bishops were too stupid yourself to know the meaning of these beautiful words.
I think there are a lot of people, who have suffered with the bad translation over the last 40 years, who will say, “We were robbed of beauty!”
No catz? Epic fail ...
They're harmless, just looking for noms. I bred the little rascals for 15 years, so we were periodically overrun with kittehs.
Now I understand. We’ve never had more than two at a time. My neighbor’s catz sometimes come over in a mob like that when I put the garage door up ... Shannon shrieks at them out the front windows, and Ash snivels and goes in her cage. She’s afraid of catz, except for ours.
Happy Cat an no Cheezburger??!!!11one
18 John's peeps an teh Farisees wuz no eatin teh cheezburgers, but Happy Cat an hiz peeps were all "Cheezburger OM NOM NOM!". An evrybody wuz lyke, "Y no fasting? U B eatin teh cheezburgers!"19 Happy Cat sed "D00d, teh Ceiling Cat iz heer, so itz a partee!20 But wen de kuul katz leaev teh partee, itz nottuh partee, so no moar cheezburgurs.21 K so liek if y00 put frehs watr n a durty boel, thne ur frehs watr iz al skummy!22 Adn liek if y00 put noo littr n a durty littrboxs, thne it stil smelz. Y00 get hyumins to cleen it furst. Srsly."
Poor Ash! She's not used to kittehs in quantity. At least not STRANGE kittehs in quantity.
Shelley is VERY wary of cats because my 14 pound male Siamese used to beat her up. Ruby has never gotten The Claw Across the Nose, so she harasses our little female Siamese, who just puts her head down and submits to being bathed by The Tongue.
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