The Soon Coming Climax Proof The Bible Is True

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[kindred]

1. The Jewish people would be scattered worldwide; yet Israel would become a nation again after a long time and at a time the Bible calls the "latter days"-ref Isa 66:8; Mic 5:3; Ezek 38:8. Against what appeared to be impossible odds, this prophecy has been fulfilled. It happened as predicted on May 14, 1948 after about 2500 years. That’s 1 out of 1. Note: Israel was destroyed in approximately 721 B.C. and Judah about 135 years later. Since that time, approximately fourteen different peoples have possessed the land of Israel. Yet as the Bible said, the nation of Israel would be reborn. The rebirth of Israel was a key sign, indicating we had entered a time period called the "latter days." It was the beginning of a countdown leading to the Tribulation and culminating with the Battle of Armageddon and the return of Jesus. Along with the fulfillment of this crucial event are over 360 prophecies that would all come together, so we might recognize that the Tribulation is very close at hand. Some of these are listed here. Yet the Bible foretells that most people would not believe these things, despite the overwhelming evidence of the signs from God’s Word being fulfilled exactly as predicted. As people refused to believe the flood was coming in Noah’s time, so people today willingly choose to disregard the signs of the times.

2. Israel shall be brought forth in one day, at once-ref Isa 66:8. Prophecy fulfilled-May 14, 1948. That’s 2 out of 2. Note: On Nov. 29, 1947, the General Assembly of the U.N. approved a resolution calling for the establishment of a Jewish state in Palestine. On the morning of May 14, 1948 (the last day of the British mandate), a meeting of the People’s Council took place in Israel to decide on the name of the state and to finalize the declaration. At precisely 4 pm, the proclamation ceremony began at the Tel Aviv museum. The 979 Hebrew words of the Scroll of Independence were read. All stood, and the scroll was adopted. The notorious White Paper, issued by the British in 1930 restricting Jewish immigration, was declared null and void. Members of the People’s Council signed the proclamation. David Ben-Gurion rapped his gavel, declaring, "The State of Israel is established. This meeting is ended." Israel was brought forth as a nation in one day, at once, exactly as predicted. At midnight, the British soldiers and high commissioner would leave. President Truman was swift in announcing U.S. recognition of Israel. The following morning, on May 15, Israel was under attack by the Egyptian, Syrian, Lebanese, Jordanian, and Iraqi forces.

3. Israel would be brought forth (or reborn) "out of the nations"-Ezek 38:8. Prophecy fulfilled-May 14, 1948. That’s 3 out of 3. Note: As previously stated, on Nov. 29, 1947, the General Assembly of the "United Nations" approved a resolution calling for the establishment of a Jewish state in Palestine. This prophecy was perfectly fulfilled. Consider, for centuries the land of Israel had been occupied by many nations. Israel was "brought forth out of the nations"—the children of Israel from many nations have been returning to their ancient homeland.

4. Israel must regain the city of Jerusalem-Joel 2:32; Isa 28:14; Ezek 22:19. This happened just as predicted in 1967. That’s 4 out of 4. Note: The Bible gives us two methods so we would know the time we are in. One is by Israel’s rebirth. The other, by a precise line of events that would all come together at one time. Israel was reborn on May 14th, 1948. The Bible indicates that from Israel’s rebirth a generation would not pass till all be fulfilled. We are not setting any date; however, it seems clear from Israel’s rebirth and the signs of the times— that we are living in the generation in which the Rapture and Tribulation will come and catch most people by surprise. Are you ready?

5. The Christian church at the time of the end would be lukewarm, neither cold nor hot for Jesus. Prophecy fulfilled. That’s 5 out of 5. Note: God will spew them out. Many ministers and people that call themselves a Christian will not be going to heaven. The Bible tells us—you have acquired wealth, but your true condition is wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked, and you don’t know it-Rev 3:14-22. This is today’s church. Most preachers use little Scripture, but lots of worldly stories. Many sing a great deal, but put little emphasis on repentance, obeying, serving, and fearing God, on the fruits of the Spirit, Bible prophecy, water baptism by immersion, and studying your Bible faithfully every day. Many are only entertainment centers that teach what their members want to hear. Many (so-called Christians) are so lukewarm or dead, they don’t even bring their Bibles with them to the house of God. Some famous ministers and Bible schools think this is the best church age ever, yet the Bible clearly shows it is the worst and most deceived.

6. The Bible gives us over 50 descriptions about the people at the time of the end. These fit the people of today perfectly, but did not fit the people of fifty years ago. Here are some:

A. Some would depart from the faith and go into devil worship-1 Tim 4:1. This is perfect. B. People would mock about the last days and not believe-2 Pe 3:3; Jude 18. C. People would become lovers of themselves-2 Tim 3:1,2. Remember the TV commercials—"I do it for me"? D. People would be disobeying their parents-2 Tim 3:1,2. E. People would be grateful for nothing-2 Tim 3:1,2. F. Homosexuality would increase-Lk 17:28,30; ref Gen 19:5; Ro 1:24,26,27. G. People would be without self-control in sex-2 Tim 3:1,2,6; Rev 9:21, Lk 17:28,30; Jude 7. Is this not the great sex generation? H. People would love pleasures more than God-2 Tim 3:1,2,4. This is true. Shall we go on a picnic, watch football, or sleep. Church?—we can go another time. Our American motto "In God we trust" has become a joke. Remember, these were all predicted centuries ago as part of the signs that we are at the time of the end. I. People would be taking drugs-Rev 9:21. The Greek word for sorceries, in Rev 9:21, means pharmaceuticals or drugs. God’s Word is 100% right on every one. That’s 6 out of 6. How could you have any doubts at this point? Note: Fifty years ago, many people seldom locked their doors at night. There was little or no profanity on television, radio, or in the movies. One of the biggest problems in public school was gum chewing. Those days are long gone. 7. There would be weapons that could destroy the world-Mk 13:20; Rev 6:8; Rev 9:18; Zech 14:8,12. Incredibly, this prophecy was written in the days of spears and arrows, yet today it is true. That’s 7 out of 7. Note: It is estimated that the combined nuclear arsenals of the USA and Russia (as of the year 2007) could kill every living thing on earth 6 times over.

8. The Gospel must be published in all the world-Mk 13:10. This seemingly impossible prophecy was written when there was no printing press, but today it is true. That's 8 out of 8. Note: In this last generation, to our knowledge, the Gospel is being published (or is about to be published) in the primary language of every nation of the world or "among all nations." In addition, the Gospel is available by short-wave radio nearly everywhere in the world.

9. In the "latter days," when Israel was once again a nation, there would be a great military power to the extreme north of Israel in the land of Magog (which is modern-day Russia)-Ezek 38:2-4,8,15,16. Incredible. That’s 9 out of 9. Note: How could the Bible have foretold the location of this nation, facts about its military, and even the time period it would come to pass? As was already said, in Lk 24:25-O FOOLS, AND SLOW OF HEART TO BELIEVE ALL THAT THE PROPHETS HAVE SPOKEN.

10. There would be a nation to the far east of Israel, to the end of the earth. This nation would have an army of 200 million. This is astounding. How could the Bible have told the location of a nation and given such a huge figure regarding the size of its army nearly 2000 years ago? China has boasted that they could field an army of this exact figure. That’s 10 out of 10.

11. There would be an economic alliance of the nations of the Old Roman Empire. It would have a military capability. This is an exact description of the European Union today (the EU), which has already adopted the one-currency system for many of their member nations. It is written, IN THE DAYS OF THESE KINGS (these nations, which is now) SHALL THE GOD OF HEAVEN SET UP A KINGDOM-Dan 2:44. That’s 11 out of 11. We have just reached the point that seemed impossible—11 perfect predictions made thousands of years ago—with God nothing is impossible. Certainly, at this point, even the biggest skeptic should see the Bible is true, there is a God, and we are nearing the time of the end.

[sasportas]

You said: “REPLACEMENTARIANISM, A-MIL, PRETERIST, POST-MIL POSITIONS ARE ALL far , far, far less supported in Scripture than Dispensationalism regardless of the Rapture timing.”

I agree with you, Quix. The thing all these have in common, is that they are not premillennialists. I am premill, and so are you. However, my position is “Historic” Premill, as opposed to Dispensationalist Premill.

When you research church history (hence, the “Historic” Premill designation), you find the position of those who wrote before the rise of Augustine and the Roman Catholic Church, to be post-trib, non-dispensationalist. Theologians refer to it as “Chiliasm.” This is the position I take, the historical position.

The Pretrib rapture and the Dispensationalist system are modern innovations. John Darby of the 19th century is known as “the father of Dispensationalism.” He started something heretofore unknown in church history.

[Quix]

Thanks for your kind reply.

My reading indicates Darby is a Johnny come lately to the party.

I’m glad you spent a year to study . . . I think . . . I disagree with where you ended up.

[topcat54]

Is dispensationalism true. Decide for yourself:

Pretrib Rapture Diehards
The Dispensational "Parenthesis" Theory Examined
The Two Covenants: The Answer To Dispensational Theology
Matthew 24: The Fig Tree

If you want a system based on hype and sensationalism, and one that wavers every time some middle east leader changes their underwear, then futurist dispensationalism is The System® for you.

[daniel1212]

As a Christian who believes in prophecy, I also realize that most have degrees of vagueness or a context which hinders them from being declared to be the fulfillment some claim.

Certain fulfillments include Isaiah 53, and suffering servant is not Israel as the alternative explanation asserts, while the prediction of a future ruler being born in Micah 5:2 also has a rather conspicuous fulfillment.

While many of the prophecies invoked as foretelling the birth of Israel also have largely unfulfilled aspects, the fact that the Bible foretells Israel existing and facing enemies is quite declaratory of its prophetic status.

I wonder how the U.N. feels about this, even though it has a future filfilment?

(Zec 12:3) “And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.”

[meowmeow]

Hey sasportas - thank you for post #25. I had always believed the Dispensational view since that is what all the Christians around me all my life believed (so I assumed it was Biblical). During the election last year, my adult Sunday school class would chatter about Obama and the antichrist and so forth, so I suggested we actually do an in-depth study of Revelation and End Times prophecy - just to ensure that we really do know what we're talking about when we talk like this.

Upon thinking about it, I realized that while I knew-of such things, from a technical perspective, I really didn't know anything. So to be thorough for my students, I spent the last year reading many authors and studying that aspect of the Bible diligently.

Oh wow...I had no idea the same era that gave us Evolution,Eugenics and Marxism gave us Dispensationalism. That disturbed me. I read more. In the end, I came to the same conclusion as you. I just hinted to my seminary trained DH what I had found and he went all Quix on me (I dropped it quickly and didn't bring it up again - sigh).

As I begin to teach this class, I'm going to present all views and all facts - get them in the Bible and let them draw their own conclusion without revealing my experience until the very end of the study.

I love to read these threads now because I actually know what all sides are talking about and for the most part, it amuses the heck out of me. I didn't go into my study with a desire to tear down my own beliefs. It's just that when presented with facts, I cannot continue to believe a fallacy, no matter how painful it is to admit it.

Keep the faith :)
-meow2

[topcat54]

When you research church history (hence, the “Historic” Premill designation), you find the position of those who wrote before the rise of Augustine and the Roman Catholic Church, to be post-trib, non-dispensationalist. Theologians refer to it as “Chiliasm.” This is the position I take, the historical position.

Dear FRiend,

While historic premillennialism is far better that the errant subform of dispensationalism, I have a question about the historical evidence for the premil position.

If we define a premillennialist as one who believe that Christ will physically reign on the earth for a thousand years after the second coming and resurrection, what specific evidence would you use to substantiate the premil position in the early church?

I have not gotten an answer to this question.

In reviewing some on the ancient writers who are listed as supporting the premillenarian position, I could not find anything that could identify with this modern definition.

E.g., in Justin Martyr, we read:

But I and others, who are right-minded Christians on all points, are assured that there will be a resurrection of the dead, and a thousand years in Jerusalem, which will then be built, adorned, and enlarged, [as] the prophets Ezekiel and Isaiah and others declare. (Dialogue with Trypho the Jew, Chapter LXXX)

Now we have understood that the expression used among these words, ‘According to the days of the tree [of life] shall be the days of my people; the works of their toil shall abound’ obscurely predicts a thousand years. For as Adam was told that in the day he ate of the tree he would die, we know that he did not complete a thousand years. We have perceived, moreover, that the expression, ‘The day of the Lord is as a thousand years,’ is connected with this subject. And further, there was a certain man with us, whose name was John, one of the apostles of Christ, who prophesied, by a revelation that was made to him, that those who believed in our Christ would dwell a thousand years in Jerusalem; and that thereafter the general, and, in short, the eternal resurrection and judgment of all men would likewise take place. Just as our Lord also said, ‘They shall neither marry nor be given in marriage, but shall be equal to the angels, the children of the God of the resurrection.’ (Dialogue, Chapter LXXXI)

You will note that in these two rather well-known “premillennial” statements there is absolutely no mention of Christ physically on the earth during the thousand years. One can certainly read one’s biases into the statement and come to that reading, but they do not literally teach what modern premillenarians teach.

[spacejunkie01]

The Zec 12:3 scripture you referenced seems to point to a pretrib rapture to me. Does it to you? I can’t see ‘all’ the people of the earth being gathered against Israel if Christians are still here.

Help! I lean towards pre wrath rapture but would really like to know the truth.

[guitarplayer1953]

we are not appointed to wrath but we are promised tribulations.

[guitarplayer1953]

so all the prophecy of the bible has been fulfilled and we are living in the millennium? Awful long millennium.

[topcat54]

The Zec 12:3 scripture you referenced seems to point to a pretrib rapture to me. Does it to you? I can’t see ‘all’ the people of the earth being gathered against Israel if Christians are still here.

1 The burden of the word of the Lord against Israel. Thus says the Lord, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him: 2 "Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of drunkenness to all the surrounding peoples, when they lay siege against Judah and Jerusalem. 3 And it shall happen in that day that I will make Jerusalem a very heavy stone for all peoples; all who would heave it away will surely be cut in pieces, though all nations of the earth are gathered against it. 4 In that day," says the Lord, "I will strike every horse with confusion, and its rider with madness; I will open My eyes on the house of Judah, and will strike every horse of the peoples with blindness. 5 And the governors of Judah shall say in their heart, 'The inhabitants of Jerusalem are my strength in the Lord of hosts, their God.'

Where exactly do you find the pre-trib rapture theory in that passage? Is it your view that this verse teaches that every living man, woman, and child will literally travel to the middle east to be “gathered against Jerusalem”?

[GiovannaNicoletta]

Is the word “Bible” in the Bible?

[Iscool]

There is NO reason God’s people can not endure the fires of judgment..

We as Christians have been judged already...We will have no other judgement...

Noah survived the flood..he never left the air of this earth. Why couldn’t God just lift Noah, family and animals up like this so called rapture..flood the earth, dry it up and set them back down?

Noah didn't go thru God's wrath...The people that drowned went thru the wrath...Noah bobbed around on a cruise ship for over a month with his entire family...Why pick Noah as an example of something???

WHY do lukewarm believers, most look more like the world than the Church THINK they are better than all the saints that have died for the last 2000 years?

Lukewarm??? There's quite a few saints in the last 2000 years that didn't get martyred...They died for various reasons including old age...

Apparently you figure it's only fair that Christians get beat up, bloodied, starve and are tortured before they can get to heaven, eh???

Spoiled bunch..in for a rude awakening. :) Whether THEY believe it or not!!

You sound like a real authority on the subject...Jesus however, says HE is going to meet us somewhere out there in the air...Jesus didn't necessarily mean within the oxygen...Just UP...

Some folks are going to be in for the most shocking ride of their lifetime...Others that don't believe in the Rapture will never know it took place...

And absoulutely, many who call themselves Christians will go on thru the Tribulation and the wrath, and have to sort it all out at the final judgement...But I won't be one of those...

[Iscool]

It's just that when presented with facts, I cannot continue to believe a fallacy, no matter how painful it is to admit it.

Interesting...Many have studied just as hard and diligently as you but come to the opposite conclusion...I for one...

[GiovannaNicoletta]

God Himself promises us that there will be a specific event during which He will take His Church off this earth and out of the time of judgment that He will rain on the earth:

I Thessalonians 4:14-18

14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

1 Corinthians 15:51-52

Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

The above New Testament quotations describe the Rapture of the Church. The blessed hope of the Christian is Christ taking him to Himself forever, as He promises in John 14:2,3, “In my father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.”

The Olivet Discourse recorded in Matthew 24 and 25 gives us the certainty we are looking for. The disciples asked Jesus, “Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?” Here it is clear that it is about the end of the age that the disciples were asking about. The Tribulation, then, is that short period of time – seven years – that immediately precedes the “end of the world,” or age.

The Lord gave the general course of events in the world from His time to the end of this age. He enumerated a series of prophesied occurrences which have characterized the world. False teachers, wars, famines, pestilences, and earthquakes spoken of in Matt. 24:4-7 have been happening since our Savior uttered those words, only with increased intensities in the last century.

Persecutions described in verses 9-13, as applied to Christians, began almost immediately after the establishment of the Church on Pentecost. The fulfillment of this part of the Olivet Prophecy is well documented, , and will no doubt continue with increased severity in the near future. God said that Christians would suffer tribulations in this world- this is, after all, a fallen world with Satan as the "god" of this age (to paraphrase God). Nowhere in Scripture are Christians told that we will be rescued from Satan's evil during our time on this earth. We are promised, however, that those who know Christ as Savior will not be on earth to go through the judgments that God will rain on those who reject Him.

Also, know that the Bible tells us the the One Who restrains evil will be removed before the Antichrist is revealed. “For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth” – or restrains – “will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed” (2 Thess. 2:7, 8a). The restrainer of the Antichrist is the Holy Spirit. Nothing and nobody in the world can do the job of restraining Satan, who is the force behind the Antichrist. The Holy Spirit has been doing the work of a restrainer since the days of the apostle Paul. Only an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent Being can do that. When the Holy Spirit, in His capacity as the Restrainer, is “taken out of the way,” then the Antichrist will be free to reveal himself, for God will now allow it. Now, the “taking out of the way” of the Restrainer from the world scene is the same as saying that the Church is raptured – taken away from the earth – because the Holy Spirit works primarily through the Church in controlling the outbreak of apostasy in the professing Christendom and in the world.

When the Church is taken away, then the Great Apostasy will be complete and the Antichrist will reign supreme over the whole world.

God promises to deliver His children prior to the Tribulation by transporting them to heaven. Consider the following:

• “… to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come” (1Thess. 1:10). “For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ” (5:9). The wrath to come is the Tribulation, exhaustively described in Revelation 6 – 18. By the time the First Horseman rides (Rev.6:1) the Church (Rev. 2 & 3) will have been transported to heaven (Rev. 4:1).
• Christ to the Church: “Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which will come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth” (Rev. 3:10). This is a promise from Jesus to the faithful in Philadelphia. We know that Philadelphia is an end-time Church, the sixth of the seven Churches. The Philadelphian Era of God’s Church covers the period from about 1750 to Rapture. God’s promise is clear-cut – “I… will keep thee from the hour of temptation,” – or the time of trial – “which shall come upon all the world.” “The hour” refers to the short period of seven years when God’s righteous judgments will be poured out on sinning mankind. How can anyone mistake the meaning of that scripture? God will deliver the Church from the Tribulation. And the means is by transporting her to heaven: “Come up hither…” (Revelation 4:1).
• In 2 Peter 2:4-10 the apostle spoke of “judgment” on the world of the ungodly during the days of Noah and Lot, wherein God saved the just from the outpouring of judgment, for “the Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptation, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished” (v. 9). The conclusion that we can derive here is that God will deliver His own – the godly – before He allows the global “day of judgment” – the Tribulation – to begin, just as He did to Noah and Lot. We are therefore assured that the Church will not go through the coming Tribulation. God’s promise will never fail. We are expected to believe that; can we do otherwise?

[marbren]

we are not appointed to wrath but we are promised tribulations

I think Jedediah is being persecuted on Free Republic.

[guitarplayer1953]

"I think Jedediah is being persecuted on Free Republic."

I think he's brought it upon himself.

[marbren]

Oh, you are one of the persecutors. Sorry, my mistake.

[GiovannaNicoletta]

If the Church is going to have to suffer in the Tribulation Period, why did Christ Himself point to two men, Noah and Lot, who were completely delivered from God's judgment, when speaking of the end times, as recorded in Luke 17:26-30?

One of the early Church fathers, Clement, may have written quite extensively on the principles of the topic in an epistle to the Corinthians he drafted in either 68 or 97 AD - less than 70 years after Christ's death on the cross - a considerable period of time before 1830.

Chapter IX - Examples of the Saints.

Wherefore, let us yield obedience to His excellent and glorious will; and imploring His mercy and loving-kindness, while we forsake all fruitless labours, and strife, and envy, which leads to death, let us turn and have recourse to His compassions. Let us stedfastly contemplate those who have perfectly ministered to His excellent glory. Let us take (for instance) Enoch, who, being found righteous in obedience, was translated, and death was never known to happen to him. Noah, being found faithful, preached regeneration to the world through his ministry; and the Lord saved by him the animals which, with one accord, entered into the ark.

Clement refers to Enoch who was raptured without seeing death, as seen in Genesis 5:24: And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.

Secondly, Clement mentions Noah - a man Clement calls faithful who Scripture teaches us was spared God's judgment during the Great Flood because he walked with God and was righteous in God's eyes, as seen in Genesis 6:8-9: But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

Chapter XI - Continuation. Lot.

On account of his hospitality and godliness, Lot was saved out of Sodore when all the country round was punished by means of fire and brimstone, the Lord thus making it manifest that He does not forsake those that hope in Him, but gives up such as depart from Him to punishment and torture. For Lot's wife, who went forth with him, being of a different mind from himself and not continuing in agreement with him [as to the command which had been given them], was made an example of, so as to be a pillar of salt unto this day. This was done that all might know that those who are of a double mind, and who distrust the power of God, bring down judgment on themselves and become a sign to all succeeding generations.

Interestingly enough, Clement also addresses Lot's wife, particularly noting she was of a different mindset than Lot, the end result of which left her standing in the desert as a pillar of salt. Clement tells us God made Lot's wife an example, demonstrating how those of a double mind bring God's judgment down on themselves by distrusting the power of God!

In spite of Scripture indicating the Church isn't appointed to wrath, there are many Christians today who state that we may need to begin preparing ourselves mentally and spiritually to enter the Tribulation Period - a time the Apostle John refers to as the great day of His [the Lord's] wrath in Revelation 6:17.

Clement certainly didn't seem to see the Church squaring off with the Antichrist in the Tribulation Period. Long before John Edward Darby supposedly cooked up the Pre-Tribulational Rapture of the Church, Clement was seeing a way for the Church to be protected from the judgments to come through a fearful respect of God and righteous living. How could Clement have thought that so long before 1830?

Chapter XLV - It is the Part of the Wicked to Vex the Righteous.

Ye are fond of contention, brethren, and full of zeal about things which do not pertain to salvation. Look carefully into the Scriptures, which are the true utterances of the Holy Spirit. Observe that nothing of an unjust or counterfeit character is written in them. There you will not find that the righteous were cast off by men who themselves were holy. The righteous were indeed persecuted, but only by the wicked. They were cast into prison, but only by the unholy; they were stoned, but only by transgressors; they were slain, but only by the accursed, and such as had conceived an unrighteous envy against them. Exposed to such sufferings, they endured them gloriously. For what shall we say, brethren? Was Daniel cast into the den of lions by such as feared God? Were Ananias, and Azarias, and Mishael shut up in a furnace of fire by those who observed the great and glorious worship of the Most High? Far from us be such a thought! Who, then, were they that did such things? The hateful, and those full of all wickedness, were roused to such a pitch of fury, that they inflicted torture on those who served God with a holy and blameless purpose [of heart], not knowing that the Most High is the Defender and Protector of all such as with a pure conscience venerate His all-excellent name; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen. But they who with confidence endured these things are now heirs of glory and honour, and have been exalted and made illustrious by God in their memorial for ever and ever. Amen.

Would the Lord have delivered Daniel from the lion's den if he'd had no faith in Him? Would the flames and smoke of the fiery furnace have stood back in the presence of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego if they'd had no faith in the Lord's ability to deliver them from it? I doubt it, which is precisely why those who are placing their trust in Jesus Christ to gather them to His side in a Pre-Tribulational Rapture of the Church are far more in touch with the God of the Bible than those who preach the Church is going to have to suffer alongside the wicked in the Tribulation Period.

I believe Clement understood there was going to be a Pre-Tribulational Rapture of the Church well ahead of John Darby allegedly dreaming the idea up in 1830. If so, it's not such a new idea after all, is it?

[Quix]

THANKS FOR YOUR GREAT POSTS, AS USUAL.

[Quix]

Just being

Charismatic, Pentecostal in perspective is more than sufficient to trigger

the naysayng dogpiling reflex hereon.

And a lot of other places as well.

If one is so brazen as to say what one thinks and feels like other FREEPERS hereon, then the assaults become even more horrific.

Perfect Jesus was not immune.

The less than perfect will certainly not be immune.