[NYer]

Hope you are enjoying this series.

[ConservativeMind]

"At the same time, there have been encouraging developments. There is now near unanimity in Bible scholarship generally, Protestant as well as Catholic, that the rock on which Jesus builds his church is neither Peter's confession, nor the faith of Peter's confession, nor the truth that Peter confesses about Christ, nor Christ himself, but Peter himself."

Uh, NOT!

What's funny is that almost immediately after Jesus says these words, he calls Peter "SATAN!" Not only this but Peter lied about Christ three times. This is the man the Catholic church thinks is their "best guy."

I fear the Catholic church really needs to read Scripture rather than making it up.

[NYer]

There is now near unanimity in Bible scholarship generally, Protestant as well as Catholic, that the rock on which Jesus builds his church is neither Peter's confession, nor the faith of Peter's confession, nor the truth that Peter confesses about Christ, nor Christ himself, but Peter himself.

Since you have expressed an interest in this topic on previous threads, I am pinging you to the sequel.

[Col Freeper]

There is now near unanimity in Bible scholarship generally, Protestant as well as Catholic, that the rock on which Jesus builds his church is neither Peter's confession, nor the faith of Peter's confession, nor the truth that Peter confesses about Christ, nor Christ himself, but Peter himself.

LOL.

Well ..... I guess all those pesky arguments from the Protestants are finally over, eh?

Sounds like the Protestants on FR will be turning in their keyboards and getting themselves on over to a Roman Catholic church asap.

Gonna be real quiet here on the Religion segment of FR. Like really Zzzzzzzz time.

Wait!

What's that?

Listen carefully and you can hear the sound of virtual hammers nailing something onto the virtual doors of virtual Roman Catholic churches!

Hmmmmmm ..... those Protestants are like the Terminator aren't they!

That's what they do! That's all they do! They'll never stop!

Oh well, so much for "near unanimity".

[Kolokotronis]

Its a shame that this article presents such a half truth as this to make people think Orthodox theologians somehow or other accept the Vatican I heresy about the Pope:

” In Orthodox scholarship, too, there has been movement toward recognizing Peter himself as the rock. Orthodox theologian Theodore Stylianopoulos, after surveying recent developments in Orthodox scholarship, writes:

That Orthodox scholars have gradually moved in the direction of affirming the personal application of Matt 16:17-19 to the Apostle Peter must be applauded. From the standpoint of critical scholarship it can no longer be disputed that Jesus’ words to Peter as reported in Matt 16:17-19 confer a special distinction on Peter as “rock” — the foundation on which Christ promised to build his Church. … These points are now conceded by conservative Protestant scholars as well. (Kasper 48-49)”

Fr. Stykianopoulos, whom I know well, said this at a Vatican symposium in the fall of 2004:

“Peter is a pre-eminent figure in the New Testament, but not the only one.”

“No single apostolic figure enjoys universal dominance or exclusive authority in the New Testament,” he said. “In other words, the ‘primacy’ of Peter is not power over other apostolic figures, but an authorized leadership in the context of shared apostolic authority in the common life of the church.”

[Bobsvainbabblings]

This segment is more speculation to prove a pre determined viewpoint. Nowhere in this, or any of the segments, has there been one verse to prove the author's point. There are a lot of Jesus said this so it might mean this or that. There is not one instance where the author has a verse to prove why Jesus renamed Peter. The same for Peter being the rock He would build His Church on.

On the other hand, I have posted scriptural proof who Jesus, Peter and the Holy Spirit agree Is the Rock that Christ's Church is built on. NYer, you have yet to comment on what I have posted.

I will post the scripture once again. Maybe you or someone else can explain why this isn't as plain to any of you, as it is to me.

This was Peter filled with the Spirit Jesus promised to send to lead us in all truth.

Acts 4:7-12 (New King James Version)

⁷ And when they had set them in the midst, they asked, “By what power or by what name have you done this?”
⁸ Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them, “Rulers of the people and elders of Israel: ⁹ If we this day are judged for a good deed done to a helpless man, by what means he has been made well, ¹⁰ let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole. ¹¹ This is the ‘stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone.’^{[a] 12} Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

There is no doubt by the Holy Spirit or Peter that Jesus Christ is the cornerstone of the New Testament Church.  I have no doubt Peter would tell the 'church' leaders of today the same thing much to yours and their dismay.

There is no need for any one to be eminent on earth. We are all members of His heavenly body with His Spirit leading us like It lead Peter in acts.

Where is Peter and I wrong? BVB

 

[Uri’el-2012]

Do the writings of the "church fathers" trump or impugn the Holy Word of G-d ?

Matthew. 16:18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this Rock I will build my church,

One method of Hermeneutical understanding of Matthew 16:18
is to do a word study of all the scriptures which were then known
as the Holy Word of G-d when Yah'shua spoke these words.

This will allow one to understand that all of the Holy Word of G-d
was inspired by YHvH; the whole counsel of G-d.

The only conclusion that one can come to unless you are
predisposed to believe in man's tradition over the Holy Word of G-d
is that Yah'shua was speaking of himself as the "Rock "
e.g.

Genesis 49:24 But his bow remained steady, his strong arms stayed
[Or archers will attack...will shoot...will remain...will stay] supple,
because of the hand of the Mighty One of Jacob,
because of the Shepherd, the Rock of Israel,

Deuteronomy 32:3 I will proclaim the name of the LORD. Oh, praise the greatness of our God!

Deuteronomy 32:4 He is the Rock , his works are perfect, and all his ways are
just. A faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is he.

Deuteronomy 32:15 ..... He abandoned the God who made him and rejected the Rock his Saviour.

Deuteronomy 32:30 How could one man chase a thousand, or two put ten
thousand to flight, unless their Rock had sold them, unless
the LORD had given them up?

Deuteronomy 32:31 For their rock is not like our Rock , as even our enemies concede

Deuteronomy 32:32 Their vine comes from the vine of Sodom and from the fields of Gomorrah.
Their grapes are filled with poison, and their clusters with bitterness.

1 Samuel 2:2 "There is no-one holy [Or no Holy One] like the LORD;
there is no-one besides you; there is no Rock like our God.

2 Samuel 22:2 He said: "The LORD is my Rock , my fortress and my deliverer;

2 Samuel 22:3 my God is my Rock , in whom I take refuge, my shield and the
horn [Horn here symbolises strength.] of my salvation.
He is my stronghold, my refuge and my saviour — from violent men you save me.

2 Samuel 22:32 For who is God besides the LORD? And who is the Rock except our God?

2 Samuel 22:47 "The LORD lives! Praise be to my Rock ! Exalted be God, the Rock , my Saviour!

2 Samuel 23:3 The God of Israel spoke, the Rock of Israel said to me:
'When one rules over men in righteousness, when he rules in the fear of God,

Psalm 18:31 For who is God besides the LORD? And who is the Rock except our God?

Psalm 18:46 The LORD lives! Praise be to my Rock ! Exalted be God my Saviour!

Psalm 19:14 May the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart
be pleasing in your sight, O LORD, my Rock and my Redeemer.

Psalm 42:9 I say to God my Rock , "Why have you forgotten me? Why must I go about mourning, oppressed by the enemy?"

Psalm 78:35 They remembered that God was their Rock , that God Most High was their Redeemer.

Psalm 89:26 He will call out to me, `You are my Father, my God, the Rock my Saviour.'

Psalm 92:15 ..... "YHvH is upright; he is my Rock , and there is no wickedness in him."

Psalm 95:1 Come, let us sing for joy to the LORD; let us shout aloud to the Rock of our salvation.

Psalm 144:1 Praise be to the LORD my Rock , who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle.

Habakkuk 1:12 O LORD, are you not from everlasting? My God, my Holy
One, we will not die. O LORD, you have appointed them to
execute judgment; O Rock , you have ordained them to punish.

Peter himself refers to Yah'shua as the "rock" in
1 Peter 2:1-10

NAsbU 1 Peter 2:
1 Therefore, putting aside all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander,

2 like newborn babies, long for the pure milk of the word, so that by it you may grow in respect to salvation,

3 if you have tasted the kindness of the Lord.

4 And coming to Him as to a living stone which has been rejected by men, but is choice and precious in the sight of God,

5 you also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices
acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

6 For this is contained in Scripture: "BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A CHOICE STONE, A PRECIOUS CORNER stone,
AND HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."

7 This precious value, then, is for you who believe; but for those who disbelieve, "THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED,
THIS BECAME THE VERY CORNER stone,"

8 and, "A STONE OF STUMBLING AND A ROCK OF OFFENSE"; for they stumble because they are disobedient to the word,
and to this doom they were also appointed.

9 But you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR God's OWN POSSESSION,
so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;

10 for you once were NOT A PEOPLE, but now you are THE PEOPLE OF GOD; you had NOT RECEIVED MERCY,
but now you have RECEIVED MERCY.

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach

[narses]

+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of interest.

Obama Says A Baby Is A Punishment

Obama: “If they make a mistake, I don’t want them punished with a baby.”

[AnalogReigns]

You Roman Catholics here should know you are mostly talking to yourselves... as for other Christians, there is no “Petrine Controversy.”

As us non-Roman Christians really do find it amazing you base the legitimacy of your whole institution on that one little passage...which wasn’t used to argue for the supremacy of the Roman Bishop until centuries after St. Peter’s death.

Can I explain the Matthew 6 passage? NO. However, does this statement about Peter and his faith it really prove that the Bishop or Rome is supreme above all other bishops?

Absolutely not.