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To: rom

I have spent awhile reading all the posts on the Joseph Smith Papers and was a bit let down by the type of comments made back and forth. A friend of mine just recently commented that someone from the political far right will look with skepticism and really not listen to the words of someone from the left no matter his or her position in the world and vise versa. The Nazis during WW II used propaganda to make a caricature of the Jewish people so no one would feel they were actually human and of worth so they could say and do anything to them. Protestants in all of their diverse denominations, Catholics, Greek orthodox, Mormons, and all non Christians are not caricatures of anything. Their beliefs are rich and diverse. They are worthy of understanding and the freedom from our ignorance of their true beliefs and practices. “Mircea Eliade, a historian of religions, has argued,’There is, indeed, only one way of understanding a cultural phenomenon which is alien to one’s own ideological pattern, and that is to place oneself at its very center and from there to track down all the values that radiate from it... Before we proceed to judge it we must fully understand it and become imbued, as it were, with its ideology, whatever form it may take- myth, symbol, rite, social attitude’.”

I might be wrong, but it seemed that most of the persons responding claimed some christian background in their lives. What does this mean; “By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.” John 13:35. I found very little of this love that Christ talked about as uninformed caricatures were used to make hurtful and malicious comments about someone’s faith.

The tone I might add,in some of the responses sounded very near to the type of comments that might have been found in the early 1900’s in the southern part of the united states about black people.

by the way this post is not to you in particular but to all the persons who posted.


37 posted on 09/24/2009 9:04:42 PM PDT by david52
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To: david52; Elsie

Welcome to FreeRepublic!

Let me just remind you of the words of THE Savior Jesus Christ: “I AM the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.” (John 14:6)

You have managed quite clumsily in the space of two paragraphs to equate those of us in this thread who are exposing the fraud known as Joseph Smith to Nazis and Racists. Because obviously, we’re trying to segregate Mormons from the rest of society, and/or gas them to death.

Brilliant analysis.

Why do Mormons always act so grieved when people expose the charlatan that is Joseph Smith?

Remember: If the words of Jesus are true (and I believe they are) the vast majority of Mormons are pretty much doomed to an eternity in Hell. To keep them ignorant of that fact is NOT love, it is HATRED.

The only way to break them out of the cult and into the arms of the TRUE God is to preach the gospel to them and show them that they can be saved through Faith in the Risen Son of God Jesus Christ, who died as the ultimate atonement for our sins against our Maker.

Those who expose Mormonism understand it and its fraudulent origins better than those who profess to be Mormons.

In some ways, it has to be hard to be a devout Mormon anymore (praise the Lord!) because you can find out in about 15 minutes via Google that Mormonism doesn’t have a single solitary shred of evidence going for it — and that the “prophet” was a sham.


38 posted on 09/25/2009 9:38:11 AM PDT by rom (Israel got Saul before they got David. Where's our David?)
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To: david52
They are worthy of understanding and the freedom from our ignorance of their true beliefs and practices.

Can't we all just get along???


 
 

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1/17#17

  17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
  18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.
  19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”
  20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, “Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.” I then said to my mother,
“I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.”


If a person wants to start his own 'religion' - that's fine with me.

Just don't be dancing on the supposed graves of other religions.

39 posted on 09/25/2009 10:48:13 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: david52
 
The tone I might add,in some of the responses sounded very near to the type of comments that might have been found in the early 1900’s in the southern part of the united states about black people.
 
 
Speaking of black people...
 



 

"You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind.

The first man that committed the odious crime of killing one of his brethren will be cursed the longest of any one of the children of Adam. Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings.

This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin. Trace mankind down to after the flood, and then another curse is pronounced upon the same race--that they should be the 'servant of servants', and they will be, until that curse is removed."

Brigham Young-President and second 'Prophet' of the Mormon Church, 1844-1877- Extract from Journal of Discourses.

 



Here are two examples from their 'other testament', the Book of Mormon.

  2 Nephi 5: 21    'And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people, the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.'

  Alma 3: 6    'And the skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion against their brethren, who consisted of Nephi, Jacob and Joseph, and Sam, who were just and holy men.'

 



 

August 27, 1954 in an address at Brigham Young University (BYU), Mormon Elder, Mark E Peterson, in speaking to a convention of teachers of religion at the college level, said:

"The discussion on civil rights, especially over the last 20 years, has drawn some very sharp lines. It has blinded the thinking of some of our own people, I believe. They have allowed their political affiliations to color their thinking to some extent.I think I have read enough to give you an idea of what the Negro is after."

"He is not just seeking the opportunity of sitting down in a cafe where white people eat. He isn't just trying to ride on the same streetcar or the same Pullman car with white people. It isn't that he just desires to go to the same theater as the white people. From this, and other interviews I have read, it appears that the Negro seeks absorption with the white race. He will not be satisfied until he achieves it by intermarriage."

"That is his objective and we must face it. We must not allow our feelings to carry us away, nor must we feel so sorry for Negroes that we will open our arms and embrace them with everything we have. Remember the little statement that we used to say about sin, 'First we pity, then endure, then embrace'...."

(Rosa Parks would have probably told Petersen under which wheel of the bus he should go sit.)



 1967, (then) Mormon President Ezra Taft Benson said,

"The Communist program for revolution in America has been in progress for many years and is far advanced. First of all, we must not place the blame upon Negroes. They are merely the unfortunate group that has been selected by professional Communist agitators to be used as the primary source of cannon fodder."

 

 



We are told that on June 8, 1978, it was 'revealed' to the then president, Spencer Kimball, that people of color could now gain entry into the priesthood.

According to the church, Kimball spent many long hours petitioning God, begging him to give worthy black people the priesthood. God finally relented.



 

Sometime before the 'revelation' came to chief 'Prophet' Spencer Kimball in June 1978, General Authority, Bruce R McConkie had said:

"The Blacks are denied the Priesthood; under no circumstances can they hold this delegation of authority from the Almighty.

The Negroes are not equal with other races where the receipt of certain blessings are concerned, particularly the priesthood and the temple blessings that flow there from, but this inequality is not of man's origin, it is the Lord's doings."

(Mormon Doctrine, pp. 526-527).



When Mormon 'Apostle' Mark E Petersen spoke on 'Race Problems- As they affect the Church' at the BYU campus in 1954, the following was also said:

"...if the negro accepts the gospel with real, sincere faith, and is really converted, to give him the blessings of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost, he can and will enter the celestial kingdom. He will go there as a servant, but he will get celestial glory."



When Mormon 'Prophet' and second President of the Church, Brigham Young, spoke in 1863 the following was also said:

"Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God is death on the spot. This will always be so."

(Journal of Discourses, Vo. 10, p. 110)

 

 

40 posted on 09/25/2009 10:49:58 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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