Posted on 09/16/2009 4:17:40 PM PDT by NYer
Cognitive dissonance at its finest.
“Well, there’s Kathleen Sibelius the parishioner, and then there’s Katherine Sebelius the politician.”
It seems there’s an epidemic of schizophrenia among Washington Catholics.
Yes, really. Do you believe the mentally handicapped are all going to hell? If forgiveness of the crippled man's sin can come SPECIFICALLY through proxy of his friends (read your Scripture) then certainly forgiveness of Original Sin can come through proxy as well, which is the case with infants, the mentally handicapped, the incapacitated, etc.
Even if you got baptized because the rest of your family or friends got baptized???
Baptism makes you a spiritual son or daughter of God. By mere virtue of that baptism, you are entitled to inherit the kingdom of heaven from your Father. One does not have to claim that inheritance, however. One may choose to deny the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit and reject that inheritance. But baptism, alone, is ground for that inheritance if you choose to receive it through the mercy of Christ.
I got Good News for ya...That may very well get you into the Catholic Church but it WILL NOT get you into the Body of Jesus Christ...
Where does it state this in Scripture?
You have been deceived...But there is a way to get there...And it's very simple.. Act 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
First, you're operating out of context. Second, show me where it says "only" those that call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
In fact, if you want to hang your hat on that single verse, explain this one:
Matthew 7:21
"Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven."
I can't wait to hear how you reconcile the two.
The next verses explain it...
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Born of water is the natural human birth...Born of the Spirit is the Spiritual birth...
Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
We were already born of the water; NOW, we must be born again, of the Spirit...
Born Again refers only to the Spiritual birth...That's where Nicodemus' confusion came from...He knew he couldn't be born again of the water...So Jesus explained the 'born again' as a Spiritual birth...Being filled with the Holy Spirit...
That's my point...I'm convinced the bible is clear that you can not be in the Body of Christ unless you belong to Jesus, right now...And if you end up in hell, you never were a member of the body of Jesus Christ...
When a person believes that abortion is murder and then turns around and gives people money to commit those murders, they deserve all of the agony and frustration they get, and more.
Yes, that's classic Protestant soteriology and ecclesiology: the Body of Christ as a collection of believers who cannot lose salvation. I think the parable I mentioned suggests the opposite though. The Kingdom of Heaven is one garden, in which both wheat and tares grow--the good and the bad. It is not a collection of good wheat plants from different gardens.
And by the way, I accept that the Bible teaches a *moral* assurance of salvation...that if we are faithful to Christ, He will be faithful to us no matter our sins. I just reject the idea that it is an *absolute* assurance. Because then you get into the whole logical trap of:
"Well, believer X fell away. I guess he was never a believer in the first place."
"Really, he sure acted like one!"
"I guess he wasn't though." *shrug*
"Hm. But how do know *I* am really a believer and not acting?"
In my opinion, this line of thinking actually can seriously undermine a believer's confidence in the mercy of Christ--and paradoxically lead to serious doubts of salvation. Simpler to accept that believers can and do fall away and lose salvation for a number of reasons.
That's easy, once you decide to believe what Jesus said the will of the Father is...
Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
The will of the Father is to believe on and in Jesus Christ...And this verse goes right along with it...
Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
And then of course this one which I already posted...
Act 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
And that goes along with this one...
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
So now I'm curious as to what you think the will of the Father is...Care to explain it???
And to answer your non-biblical idea of who is to be baptized, here's what the scripture says about it...
Act 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
Act 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
If you can confess with your mouth, and believe in thine heart that Jesus is the Son of God, otherwise no baptism...NO DEAL...
**”Born of water is the natural human birth...Born of the Spirit is the Spiritual birth..”**
Mmm...I can see where you get that, but I don’t think that works. Because the other passages that have this water-Spirit juxtaposition clearly have Baptism in mind, not the amniotic fluid. :)
http://www.bebaptized.org/waterandspirit.htm
And note that John 3:6 goes to a new idea of “flesh”—it doesn’t repeat the old water one. If your exegesis were correct we’d rather expect “Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the water is water; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”.
See? The “water” idea is not carried over into the next line. So I think He’s switching ideas there.
She doesn’t care, she can find a church in DC that will give her communion. As a matter of fact, if they run out of chips at the church social, they use the wafers instead.
Katherine “Kathyteria Katholic” Sebelius
I'll take "Unintentionally Hilarious Headlines" for $1000, Alex....
Kathy, Pelosi, Dodd, Biden, Kerry and all the other fake Catholics in Wash DC need to start a St. Edward Kennedy parish there so they can all attend together and really feel holy.
She doesn’t know that the Separation of Church and State comes straight out of the Communist Manifesto. Probably put into law in this country by a bunch of democrats.
Different, yes!
Inferior, no, according to no less than the informed genius known as the "father" of the United States Constitution, James Madison.
Her choice is hers, but let none dispute that America's Founders felt an obligation to "the Supreme Judge of the World" (Declaration of Independence).
"It is the duty of every man to render to the Creator such homage, and such only as he believes to be acceptable to him. This duty is precedent both in order of time and degree of obligation, to the claims of Civil Society. Before any man can be considered as a member of Civil Society, he must be considered as a subject of the Governor of the Universe." - James Madison, in "Remonstrance"
Different, yes!
Inferior, no, according to no less than the informed genius known as the "father" of the United States Constitution, James Madison.
Her choice is hers, but let none dispute that America's Founders felt an obligation to "the Supreme Judge of the World" (Declaration of Independence).
"It is the duty of every man to render to the Creator such homage, and such only as he believes to be acceptable to him. This duty is precedent both in order of time and degree of obligation, to the claims of Civil Society. Before any man can be considered as a member of Civil Society, he must be considered as a subject of the Governor of the Universe." - James Madison, in "Remonstrance"
What a twit
So sorry for the double post! Was interrupted by a visitor.
“I guess what you are saying is...”
Ah, you’re guessing. That explains a lot.
I really don’t want to talk to you, because a meaningful discussion of the subject requires a far deeper and more sophisticated understanding than you display.
You have acquired a hodge-podge of misunderstandings, some of them slanderous, some merely goofy, and you refuse to be educated. You would have to divest yourself of these errors before you could even begin to comprehend Theology, and you just don’t seem willing to accept either factual proof or reasoned argument.
I mean, the stuff you say in your note about baptism, and its relationship to wheat and tares, is just...well, is it malicious false witness, or just stupid? I literally can’t believe that a sane adult could entertain such notions.
As a matter of fact, I *don’t* believe it. Therefore, I conclude that you are just baiting Catholics.
No thanks.
Uh Huh...You tell me I am wrong about your religion but you refuse to tell me what’s correct...Defend your beliefs...It’s because you can’t...
Just another little yapper...A little Chihuahua doggie...You’ve fallen into the ditch...Jesus will drag you out if you let Him...
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