The Mormons broke the immigration laws

Stabroek News ^ | Justin de Freitas

[Colofornian]

Dear Editor,

The Guyana political opposition is all up in arms about the story of the group of Mormons who have clearly broken the country’s immigration laws. Interestingly, the lawbreakers are all Americans and opposition activists are keenly playing up this aspect rather than seeing their departure as merely a procedural aspect of law and order. The government has said that the church may send in replacement missionaries provided their paperwork is intact.

Recently, the opposition has taken to cozying up to anything American, even writing to the American government and asking the Obama administration to meddle in local politics.

Observers are noting that the Mormon episode could be yet another poor attempt by the opposition to create tension between the US and Guyana governments. Is the American government so gullible that it would base its foreign policy on a group of Mormon lawbreakers? Who knows?

Some in Guyana go so far as to say that US policy regarding this country should be based on the testimony of an admitted gangster who testified against an American lawyer in a Brooklyn courtroom. Apparently desperate people imagine desperate things.

Is the Mormon Church so in need of followers that it would allow itself to be used as political cannon fodder in a country where they are guests?

Meanwhile, an Associated Press (AP) story quoted attorney Nigel Hughes as saying that the Mormons have about $2 million in Guyana and so he asked, “Why then expel them?” This lawyer is clearly not familiar with the laws and the consequences of breaking them or maybe, in Guyana, once you dangle $2 million the law no longer applies.

Mormons “do great missionary work and cultivate farms in the country,” Hughes said, and I immediately thought, how strange, he could have said exactly the same thing about the Jim Jones cult!

Yours faithfully,
Justin de Freitas

[greyfoxx39]

The ruling party in Guyana is Marxist-Lenninist. They are a predominantly black party who have decided that the white Americans have to go.

I am hysterically laughing at the sight of a mormon whining about being discriminated against by a black!

[Lucius Cornelius Sulla]

How many Mormons have committed mass suicides for Mormonism in the last quarter century?

[Colofornian]

How many Mormons have committed mass suicides for Mormonism in the last quarter century?

#1, not every member of Jim Jones' church who was part of farm-building in Guyana committed suicide. For one, many would come & go between Guyana & the states -- and were in the states @ the time of the incident you mentioned.
Secondly, some survived -- having run into the jungle.
Thirdly, many were murdered (not suicide) -- as they tried to leave with Rep. Ryan (and probably all of the children were murdered).

Even re: those who committed suicide, there was a point in space & time in which they weren't suicidally bent -- they were, as de Freitas said, bent on cultivating farms in foreign land. Likewise, when we reach the other side of death, we'll be able to see which cultists and religionists committed spiritual suicide by claiming they could become gods & earn their way to godhood.

[svcw]

I can not recall any mass suicides in the last 25 years except those space people. I think they were called “heavens gate”.

[Colofornian]

How many Mormons have committed mass suicides for Mormonism in the last quarter century?

I neglected to give my "bottom-line" as to why I mentioned the following in my last post: #1, not every member of Jim Jones' church who was part of farm-building in Guyana committed suicide. For one, many would come & go between Guyana & the states -- and were in the states @ the time of the incident you mentioned.
Secondly, some survived -- having run into the jungle.
Thirdly, many were murdered (not suicide) -- as they tried to leave with Rep. Ryan (and probably all of the children were murdered).

Why is this relevant? Well another FR poster, MissesBush, claimed that a Freeper was "demonizing" Mormons by comparing them to Jim Jones' members. My response was essentially, "Well, aren' you 'demonizing' Jim Jones' members by saying they have a 'demonizing' effect?"

IOW, if you're gonna get riled about this comparison, then let's take a closer look at what you think about all of Jim Jones' members, shall we? If you think it's stereotypical to compare one cult in Guyana to another cult in Guyana, then are you be "stereotypical" about ALL of the members of Jim Jones' church as being "suicidal?"

You can't play it both ways: You & others can't write off every Jim Jones member as a suicidally bent/demonized person -- 'cause by your very own standards that's an "over the top" response to ALL of their members -- and then turn around & accusing others of going "over the top" on another cult.

[Lucius Cornelius Sulla]

I am sorry I am not prepared to say that not being a Christian is morally equivalent to partaking in mass murder and suicide.

[Colofornian]

Well, it appears from their own statement, lds knowingly break immigration law in every country they are involved in.

Interesting discussion on some of these things at an ex-Mormon board this weekend. One poster cited Lds relatives of Lds missionaries blaming "Satan" for this setback. One poster then responded: So, Satan made the LDS church authorities break the law resulting in the missionaries being expelled from the country and thus hampering the work of the lard? That Satan is one tricky dude.

Another posted added: I was in VZ [Venezuela, which is near Guyana] from 2000-2002 and there were issues with our visas having illegal stamps. I didn't ask many questions, just handed my passport over to the MP like everyone else (I had never had one before, hadn't traveled before, and didn't know how dangerous that was!). Who knows what happened to the original. They just told us that our old ones have been destroyed and that we had to get new ones and take a trip to Trinidad and Tobago or Colombia to have them re-stamped. I heard rumors that the church's gov't insider had used outdated stamps to automatically update our visas and that some elders trying to go home had been detained. I was also under the impression that we were there not on missionary visas, but "educational" visas--as in student visas.

[dalereed]

Fine them their $2 million and kick them out!

[svcw]

huh?

[Colofornian]

I am sorry I am not prepared to say that not being a Christian is morally equivalent to partaking in mass murder and suicide.

And all I am saying is that based upon the urgency Paul reflected in his day -- that Jews were lost to hell outside of Jesus Christ (See Romans 9:1-3) -- that there is such a thing as spiritual suicide -- resulting in loss of life. In this case, I define "life" as being in an eternal relationship with God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit. (See John 17:3 & other verses).

In Luke 9, Jesus told someone to "let the dead bury the dead" -- meaning, let the spiritual dead bury the physically dead.

[Lucius Cornelius Sulla]

Please see #70.

[greyfoxx39]

How many Mormons have committed mass suicides for Mormonism in the last quarter century?

Something happen in the first 3 quarters you wanna clue us in on?

Or were you thinking of THIS?

Devil's Gate; Brigham Young and the Great Mormon Handcart Tragedy

 

The Mormon handcart tragedy of 1856 is the worst disaster in the history of the Western migrations, and yet it remains virtually unknown today outside Mormon circles.

 

Following the death of Joseph Smith, founder of the Mormon church, its second Prophet and new leader, Brigham Young, determined to move the faithful out of the Midwest, where they had been constantly persecuted by their neighbors, to found a new Zion in the wilderness. In 1846-47, the Mormons made their way west, generally following the Oregon Trail, arriving in July 1847 in what is today Utah, where they established Salt Lake City.

 

Nine years later, fearing a federal invasion, Young and other Mormon leaders wrestled with the question of how to bring thousands of impoverished European converts, mostly British and Scandinavian, from the Old World to Zion. Young conceived of a plan in which the European Mormons would travel by ship to New York City and by train to Iowa City. From there, instead of crossing the plains by covered wagon, they would push and pull wooden handcarts all the way to Salt Lake.But the handcart plan was badly flawed. The carts, made of green wood, constantly broke down; the baggage allowance of seventeen pounds per adult was far too small; and the food provisions were woefully inadequate, especially considering the demanding physical labor of pushing and pulling the handcarts 1,300 miles across plains and mountains.

 

Five companies of handcart pioneers left Iowa for Zion that spring and summer, but the last two of them left late. As a consequence, some 900 Mormons in these two companies were caught in early snowstorms in Wyoming. When the church leadership in Salt Lake became aware of the dire circumstances of these pioneers, Young launched a heroic rescue effort. But for more than 200 of the immigrants, the rescue came too late.

 

The story of the Mormon handcart tragedy has never before been told in full despite its stunning human drama: At least five times as many people died in the Mormon tragedy as died in the more famous Donner Party disaster.

 

David Roberts has researched this story in Mormon archives and elsewhere, and has traveled along the route where the handcart pioneers came to grief. Based on his research, he concludes that the tragedy was entirely preventable.

 

Brigham Young and others in the Mormon leadership failed to heed the abundant signs of impending catastrophe, including warnings from other Mormon elders in the East and Midwest, where the journey began. Devil's Gate is a powerful indictment of the Mormon leadership and a gripping story of survival and suffering that is superbly told by one of our finest writers of Western history.

Many early mormons died for their faith...you could say the Jim Jones folks did also.

[AuntB]

” Most churches do not flagrantly break the law and work within immigration laws within the country they send missionary workers to. “

The Catholic church breaks OUR immigration laws every day, gives aliens sanctuary (remember Elvira??) and actively pushes for amnesty. To be fair, the leadership of the Mormon church was pro amnesty a few years ago, haven’t heard them making much noise about it lately.

[svcw]

You are correct.
Fortunately, most churches do not.

[Lucius Cornelius Sulla]

Many early mormons died for their faith...you could say the Jim Jones folks did also.

You could say that, but that wouldn't make it true. Young was trying to deal with an emergency situation and came up with a novel solution, which unfortunately was a failure. It was a failure of leadership, but was neither murder or suicide.

[Lucius Cornelius Sulla]

You’re correct, the stands of both the Church and the Mormons on Amnesty is plainly disrespectful of the rights of the American and other nations to associate with whom they choose.

[ejonesie22]

Logic isn’t your strong suit, is it? Have fun with your story, comrade.

Now that is funny.

I love irony...

You make this too easy...

[reaganaut]

Thank you for the correction. :)

[reaganaut]

You are so utterly fixated on destroying the church that you will believe and defend ANYONE who has anything bad to say about the church no matter how suspect the source, up to and including, now, a racist, Communist government.

So clearly, your Conservatism comes in second place behind your desire to “expose” the Mormon church.

- - - - - - - - - - - - -
First - this was confirmed by the Deseret News, but if you want to call the LDS church a racist, communist government I would agree (at least under Brigham Young). “United Order” anyone?

Second - I do put my conservatism in second place to helping lead the lost to Jesus. The Jesus of the Bible, not the “elder brother, good example, loan shark” Jesus of Mormonism.

Saving souls is WAY more important than politics.

[ejonesie22]

Well put.