Lutheran (EL
* as of August 19, AD 2009, a liberal protestant SECT, not part of the holy, catholic and apostolic CHURCH.
Posted on 09/05/2009 7:00:01 PM PDT by lightman
FROM PASTOR PAT’S DESK
Dear Friends,
You have read two eloquent pastoral letters in this issue, one from Mark Hanson, the Presiding Bishop of the ELCA, and one from B. Penrose Hoover, our own bishop of the Lower Susquehanna Synod. As your pastor, I feel that I also ought to share my thoughts with you about what was decided at the churchwide assembly regarding ordination of gay and lesbian persons in long-term committed same sex relationships.
In his “Prefaces to the Old Testament, “ Martin Luther said, “Here [in the Scriptures] you will find the swaddling cloths and manger in which Christ lies.” In “Preface to the Epistles of St. James and St. Jude, he said, “Whatever does not teach Christ is not yet apostolic, even though St. Peter or St. Paul does the teaching.”
No matter which side of the debate one might take, As Lutherans we see the Bible first and foremost for what it teaches us about Jesus. And I believe that what Jesus taught, preached and lived is very instructive to us in this situation.
First, Jesus never said one word about homosexuality. He did, however say a great deal about self-righteousness. In Matthew 7 we read, “Do not judge, so that you may not be judged. For with the judgment you make you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get. Why do you see the speck in your neighbor’s eye, but do not notice the log in your own eye?” .
Second, Jesus could, and did challenge long accepted and deeply held religious beliefs and practices. He healed on the Sabbath; in the gospel lesson for August 30 he challenges the practices of ritual washing and declared that there were no forbidden foods. In the next few verses he healed the daughter of a gentile, a foreigner.
Third, Jesus chose as his followers, tax collectors and other sinners. He accepted women as worthy of respect in a time when they were considered chattels. Indeed, in John’s gospel a woman, Mary Magdalene, was the first person to see the risen Lord on Easter Sunday.
From this we learn that Jesus was not afraid to challenge accepted practices. He was not afraid to make waves. He was not afraid to befriend those who were considered to be outcasts by the religious people of the day.
Yet, Jesus preached a high, even impossible standard of morality. He taught that all of us are liars, adulterers, and murderers, if we’ve every even thought about those things. He spoke very plainly against divorce and remarriage. He taught that we must love our enemies and forgive endlessly.
For me, what we learn first from Jesus in regard to the decisions of the churchwide assembly, is that we are all sinners, and that we are all desperately in need of God’s grace. No matter where we stand on these issues, none of us is good enough to judge those who are on the other side. Second, we are already doing things that are contrary to the literal interpretation of Scripture. It’s hard now to remember, but ordination of women was just as controversial 40 years ago as are the issues we are facing today. We also accept divorced and remarried people as members of the clergy because we believe in God’s forgiveness and grace. We can do these things because we believe that as times change, the Holy Spirit can and does speak to us in new ways.
Third, as a very practical matter, these new rulings do not change the process by which a congregation calls a pastor. Authority to call a pastor rests with the congregation. No congregation will be forced to call a pastor that they do not feel is right for them, for any reason.
You will hear many things said about these issues in the coming weeks and months. However each of us may feel about these issues, let us remember the life and teachings of or Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, and struggle to act in love to God through love to neighbor, as he would have us do.
Yours in Christ,
Pastor Pat
We can do these things because we believe that as times change, the Holy Spirit can and does speak to us in new ways.
This has 16th century schwamerei, 19th century "enthusiasm", and 21st century UCC (Utterly Confused Christians) "God is still speaking" written all over it.
To quote 19th Century Mercersburg Theologian John Williamson Nevin, "Why are you a LUTHERAN?"
* as of August 19, AD 2009, a liberal protestant SECT, not part of the holy, catholic and apostolic CHURCH.
Ping
“It’s hard now to remember, but ordination of women was just as controversial 40 years ago”
No, that is exactly why the GLTB (did I miss anyone?) issue will not go away. The “church” bent the rules to allow ordination of women, then why can’t the church bend the rules for everyone else?
“He accepted women as worthy of respect in a time when they were considered chattels. Indeed, in John’s gospel a woman, Mary Magdalene, was the first person to see the risen Lord on Easter Sunday.”
BUT, he selected 12 MALE disciples.
“Third, Jesus chose as his followers, tax collectors and other sinners.”
BUT, they were transformed — “died” and “lived” again as different people.
When discerning pastoral leadership, one should be able to discern between those who dwell on carnal thinking, refusing to turn away from it, and those who have identified it, hate it, and instead seek with all their hearts and minds to remain in fellowship with Christ through faith in Him, before anything else.
As Christ told Simon Peter, unless he allowed Christ to wash him, he would have no part of Him. It should be noted that when Christ washed the feet, it was a partial cleansing of the body, which after the whole body had been washed, only required partial washing for the body to be considered cleansed. Failing to allow that cleansing results in lack of inheritance at the bema seat.
Those who insist upon remaining attached to the immorality listed in 1Cor 6 disassociate themselves from fellowship with Christ and disgrace the body.
A secondary question needs to be raised of those who repetitively condone homosexuality in the church, let alone allow it be elevated to positions of authority within the perceived body. It becomes obvious that such persons are acting in a worldly and perhaps carnal form of thinking, placing it much higher than the spiritual life of the believer. Accordingly, for any other believer seeking pastoral guidance, such carnal persons and their worldly institutions have exposed themselves as counterfeits to God’s Bride for Christ and lack the credentials to pastor a flock.
Yes, throughout the debate leading up to the Churchwide Assembly actions--and now in the defense of those actions--"experience" and "reason" have been set equal to or superior to Scripture and tradition.
“First, Jesus never said one word about homosexuality.”
Did he need to say anything? Being the God of Israel, the God who told Moses what to write in Lev. 18 & 20, Jesus had already spoken.
Prayers for the remnant.
Paul said that his revelation was directly from Christ. Christ, himself, said that he came to fufill the word not to sweep it away. This man is of a deceiving spirit.
Get out of the ELCA for Christ’s sake.
Patricia = woman.
Right-o. My bad - her worse.
LOL
Prayers for you and your parishioners.
Of course, this is exactly what congregations were told about being forced or pressured to call a woman "pastor". As time passed more and more Synod Presidents/Bishops began to tell recalcitrant congregations they would not receive any more candidates until they would accept a woman.
IMO, when the Synod departs from sound doctrine, it is time to depart from the Synod. The notion of remaining in an apostate body is just plain wrong.
I left decades ago.
BINGO!
Those who fail to learn from the past are doomed to repeat it.
It’s a woman. That tell you anything?
He never said anything about bestiality or pedophilia or having sex with your own mother either!
Isn't this a judgment of people who disagree with the blatant endorsement of sin because we use discernment given as a gift by God's WORD to know when we are separating our selves from God or not?
Look in the mirror Pastor Pat, who is really judging? Is it you? Or we who point to Gods Word, it seems you don't realize that GOD himself breathed those words in the Bible by his Spirit, the Holy Spirit!
Leviticus 18:22 " 'Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.
A Law from God! Did you know Jesus is God?
Deflect, Deflect! steer the issue away from Sin to test Gods grace and Spit on the one who said "Sin no more" and forgave and freed the prostitute. (and she did as he told her!) Why else would she be the one to have the honor of seeing the risen Christ?
Because she was cleansed from her sin in the fullest. WHY? Because she took the gift of salvation and broke the bond of slavery to sin!
You cannot truly receive the first gift without living a response that leads toward holier living.
Matthew 7
A Tree and Its Fruit
15"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them. 21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'
Romans 8
5Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6The mind of sinful man[e] is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; 7the sinful mind[f] is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. 8Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God.
Skipping ahead Romans 8
12Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation—but it is not to the sinful nature, to live according to it. 13For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live, 14because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. 15For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship.[g] And by him we cry, "Abba,[h] Father." 16The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children. 17Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.
God is Holy, Holy, Holy he cannot be in the presence of sin.
A Person who is a slave to a sin cannot serve both, it is impossible.
This letter is an infuriating twisted blasbemy of the word of God.
He healed on the Sabbath! Yes! But how can one who has not been healed heal another on the sabbath today?
A blind man will lead another blind man into a pit!
On ritual washing? Healing on the Sabbath? Forbidden Foods? It's about all about the inside condition of the heart.
Pastor Pat is justifying by twisting the meaning of what Christ is saying here to suit his means!Healing on the Sabbath? Again, thats what we do on Sunday!
But how can the blind heal the blind!
Grace is sufficient but the Judgment is still Gods in Jesus Christ.
Even though there is salvation it comes with a stern warning of judgment Jesus talks of this in multiple places in the bible.
Spurning The age old question, can you loose your salvation?
I explain that statement by another question.
My question today to these false Christians is , how can you lose what you apparently you never had?
What is the point of having a church if we can change the rules as we go so no one is a sinner? The only one I can think of is (the root of all evil) money.
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