A Treasured Testament (The Book of Mormon) (OPEN)

Ensign Magazine ^ | July, 1993 | Russell M. Nelson

[Elsie]

Stop quoting other quotes from other quotes from other quotes to the point where it is ridiculous.

Huh?

Quoting ORIGINAL Mormon statements does seem a bit ridiculous; to a TBM: but to LURKERS who have little knowledge other than what the Great Spin Machine located in SLC tells them - they are INVALUABLE!

[Elsie]

You know, we are a peculiar people.

You are NOT talking about RESTORNU - are you?

[greyfoxx39]

The pioneer women of my Church were persecuted every bit as severely as the men of my Church. And to this day we have to put up with it, which we do, as it is proof that our Church is true. Persecution comes with the territory. Keep it up if you must. (sob...sob!)

Yeah, the poor multi-billion-dollar-Corporation-Of-The-Prez of the LDS church...is SO, SO "persecuted"....

Report: 3000 Chinese Christians “Killed” Since 2000

Thousands of Chinese Christians have been killed for their faith since the year 2000, according to an investigation of senior Christian rights officials published Monday, September 3. “In the last seven years 3,000 Christians were killed,” said Ulrich Delius, the Asia expert of the German-based Society for Threatened Peoples, which campaigns against all forms of genocide and “ethnocide”. The allegations were expected to further increase international concerns that China’s pledged economic reforms are not backed-up by more religious and poltical freedoms."

[greyfoxx39]

Oh, I just wanted to make the point that we are faithful tithe payers which kind of sets us apart.

What it the world makes you believe that Christians are NOT "faithful tithe payers"??

How do you think we pay those "paid" pastors? BTW, WE pay for the missionaries we send out. We even have a special fund for it.

[Tennessee Nana]

You know, we are a peculiar people
________________________________________________

Just not the peculiar people of the Bible...

1Pe 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

1Pe 2:10 Which in time past [were] not a people, but [are] now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

1Pe 2:11 ¶ Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;

1Pe 2:12 Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by [your] good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation. 1 Peter 2:9-12

So let’s look at this passage, grassshopper...

V9 Chosen generation.. and yet the generation that Peter was speaking to is the one that mormons claim was taken out of the world...how can they be chosen and banned at the same time ??? How can the mormons of today be a chosen generation if that one back then was ??? Rememeber, according to mormon doctrine, there was no continuation of generations and Joey Smith’s generation has come and gone...

a royal priesthood...this leaves you out Saundra...females cant be priesthoods...

an holy nation...Peter was talking to the Jews...this would be only the Laminites of course...well you are already disqualified up stream but unless you are an American Indian again you’re out...

that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light...Nope again... singing Praises to the Man and worshipping Joey Smith is not what is required here..FAIL...

V10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: ...this one disqualifies EVERY mormon...they believe they were always part of their mormon god...

now have obtained mercy. ...Mormons dont believe they need any mercy...theyre too good for stuff like that...

V11 abstain from fleshly lusts, ..Mormons revere Joey Smith and Brigham Young and other mormon leaders FOR their earthly lusts...and believe D&C 132...as part of their sacred doctrines...FAIL...

V12 Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles:..ROFLMBO...Yes well...FAIL...

Gosh Saundra...What happened ????

[Tennessee Nana]

we are faithful tithe payers which kind of sets us apart.
___________________________________________________

OK lets see where the history of mormons as tithe payers started...

Lets go back to Brigham Young, 1857

Hopefully Saundra is obeying the profit BY...

“On the north-east corner is the Tithing. office, a large spacious building, with cellars, store-rooms, and offices attached. Each person on entering the Mormon Church is required to pay the tenth part of his or her property to the Lord’s servants for “building up temples, or otherwise beautifying and adorning Zion, as they may be directed froin on higb.”

Having tithed their property, they must tithe their yearly increase for the same purpose. This tenth part 36 is really a fifth part; for each man is required to work every tenth day on the Temple, or hire a substitute, and as well pay the tenth of the increase on the other nine days’ labor. It is even more than this in many cases, amoutLing nearly to fifty per cent., as the ladies pay the tenth part of their fowls, then a tenth part of the eggs, and then a tenth part of the chickens that may be hatched, irrespective of loss.

This law of tithing, however, is only the “milk of the gospel;” and was the preparative to a more rigid system of property-holding. Smith, in the beginning of the Church, attempted to establish Communism, each giving their all to the Bishop, and only drawing out of the office sufficient to live upon. This, however, was not more practicable for Smith than for Fourier or Cabet, and it was silently permitted to glide into the payment of tithing. In 1854, however, Brigham attempted to revive the old law in an improved shape. Hie commanded the people to consecrate by legal transfer all right and title to all personal property.

A law was passed through the Legislature making such transfers strictly valid; quit claim deeds were drawn up, and from their land to their wearing apparel, the majority of the people transferred every thing to Brigham, or his successor, as trustee in trust for the Church of Latter-day Saints; and some, in the exuberance of enthusiasm, threw in their wives and families. The property of each is retained by each person only at the option of Biigham Young. He can eject any person who has thus “conseerated,” for he becomes strictly a trespasser by toleration on Church property. Each is permitted to enjoy the fruits of his labors on condition of his paying a net tithe for immediate 37 purposes, and to be ready to give up ALL should it be required in any emergency.

Thus in fact Brigham is the positive owner of almost all the property in the Territory, and is one of the wealthiest men in the world, holding all at his unconditioned will. He frankly stated the object of this policy at the conference. It was to prevent Gentiles from purchasing any property without ecclesiastical sanction; to hinder departing apostates from taking any property firom the Territory; to make it the interest of every man to be submissive, and thus to more completely rule the people. Said he, “Men love riches, ard can’t leave without means; now, if you tie up the calf the cow will stay.”

Some distressing circumstances have already resulted from the operation of this law. Brigham was in earnest at its devisal, and will be in earnest as to enforcing its execution. Hle thinks of re-establishing Smith’s system of ecclesiastical communism by degrees, and by using the mace of the priesthood, to drub refractory individuals into the practice of obedience. The tithing contributed by the people is paid to the employees of the “Public Works;” and, as the authorities are engaged on public duty, of course they have the first selection, the tithing clerks posting an open account between them and the Lord. Favoritism the most glaring is exhibited in the distribution of the articles. They pretend to pay very large wages to artizans, and salaries to the clerks, but charge equally exorbitantly for articles paid; and while the leading clerks, etc., have an abundance, the poor artizan is half starved, half clad, wretchedly housed, almost insulted on applying for any thing; and], by a 38 singular system of book-keeping, are always found heavily in debt, should they wish to quit and find other employment.

I an give instances of these thlings by dozens. It is universally known at Utah, and almnost universally reproached. I have seen many tears, heard many groans and curses on D. H. Wells, the Superintendent of the Public Works, general business man, third President of the Church, and a prophet, seer, and revelator forsooth, for the misery endured by the suffering “ hands.” In some cases such pretended balances of account have been collected by law with monstrous officers’ fees, from persons who were disgusted with Mormonism, and who were leaving Utah.

(John Hyde. Mormonism: its leaders and designs.New York: W.P. Fetridge, 1857. Pp 36-39)

[restornu]

I have an lds friend who receives a bill from her bishop every month based on her last years W2s.
I can not tell you if that is common practice, but tithing is between you and God not between you and the ward bishop. The reality is no one should even know you are tithing and for that matter what the amount is.......between you and God.
I sure hope billing for tithes is not common.

***

When the Bishop ask during tithing settlement once a year if one is a full tithe payer there is no way for him to know (nor does he need to know because) it is between the person and the Lord.

There is no W2 check required it is the honor system.

Now if one has employment through the Church part of their qualifications is to be worthy to hold a temple recommend (still the honor system) or they cannot be employed in the Church.

So when there are behaviors changes that is contrary to the Church one of the signs of apostatizing is by not paying tithes.

Amazing isn’t it Saundra how the distorter tries to deceive others.

[svcw]

Well, well. I would think that if one is responding to a post I made they should at least ping me on it, wouldn’t you think.
If you notice I did say “I can not tell you if this is common practice”.
If you notice I did say that tithing is between you and God not you and some other person.
So if you are saying that this is not common practice - good. It could be very well that this particular bishop has gone to far.
Don’t call me a liar again, with out pining me.

[svcw]

When the Bishop ask during tithing settlement once a year if one is a full tithe payer

What is tithing settlement?

[restornu]

so you think you are a liar for spreading gossip Interesting!

[svcw]

Huh?
You implied I was a liar.
Again, I said “I do not know if this is common practice”. Why that is difficult for you to comprehend I do not know.
All you have to say is “it is not common practice or this particular bishop has gone to far”. Simple really.
However, one might infer because you are not willing to refute (or even answer) my question or even directly refer to the question, that it is in fact true.

[Religion Moderator]

Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.

[svcw]

Do you mind expanding, where I am called a liar means I am getting personal.
If you have the time.

[svcw]

Oh, it does not bother me to called a liar, just to let you know.

[Religion Moderator]

Restornu did indeed imply that you are a liar which is attributing motive, making it personal. She did not make a direct accusation; however, she was making the thread "about" you which is also making it personal.

In reply, you made it personal by reading her mind, e.g. "you are not willing to refute".

Two wrongs do not make a right.

Do not let this thread be "about" individual Freepers. Discuss the issues.

[svcw]

Thanks.

[restornu]

In reply, you made it personal by reading her mind, e.g. "you are not willing to refute

really?

"I have an lds friend who receives a bill from her bishop every month based on her last years W2s."

****

So when there are behaviors changes that is contrary to the Church one of the signs of apostatizing is by not paying tithes.

Amazing isn’t it Saundra how the distorter tries to deceive others.

The distorter in this case would be the LDS Friend who for what ever reason made an untrue accusation or excluded some vital detail!

[Religion Moderator]

Your intent was not clearly stated. And the inference is reasonable because you did not retain the poster's name (svcw) when pressing "reply." By overwriting it, the reply is an aside.

[restornu]

Seems like mind reading!

[Tennessee Nana]

So when there are behaviors changes that is contrary to the Church one of the signs of apostatizing is by not paying tithes.
____________________________________________

Actually in this day and timed, if someone sdidnt pay tithes the first consideration would have to be that they got laid off...

Another might be large medical bills, etc...

Why would it have to be some type of sin that would prevent a person from paying tithes...

At the church I attend, that person would get bags of groceries, and help, not unfounded accusations...

Did someonre tell you personally that they had sinned and thus could not tithe...

I really dont understand the corrolation...

Tis passing strange..