Vanity - Does Anyone Know of the Moravian Church?

August 11, 2009 | me

[Wife of D]

Good morning!

My Son-In-Law called me last night and told me a neat story about (him) losing his work ID ( a fireable offense), praying for the first time in 2 years because of that, seeing a brief glimpse of something about the Moravian church, then finding his badge. Of course there's more to it but I'm sparing you. :)

He also reported feeling completely re-energized and touched by the Hand of God -this would be a GREAT time for an 'AMEN!"- and "on fire and alive" despite having a rough weekend almost no sleep.

Anyway, he asked about the Moravian church. I have no prior knowledge of it but discovered it descended from Eastern Orthodox tradition?

If anyone has any information they would like to share I would appreciate the help. Post or email me. I'm looking for personal experience, good or bad, and real facts about what the church believes and teaches.

Thank you Freeper Friends, for any help you can give.

And thank you, Lord, especially, for opening the heart of Michael, who now seems to be on the path to seeking You. !!!Amen!!!!

[Tax-chick]

I think that was the Mennonites. I saw the article here.

[Pyro7480]

The Mennonites??? Really?

[Tax-chick]

I’m not finding the article now. It could be a local branch that approved some sort of recognition of same-sex relationships ... or I could be totally confused.

[kalee]

http://moravians.org/Ward_letter.html
http://www.geocities.com/sanctuary_home/whysanctuary.html

It appears they are suffering from the same inner factional infighting over the subject that other mainline churches are suffering and that they are exploring intercommunion with the Episcopal Church

[Alex Murphy]

I’m not finding the article now. It could be a local branch that approved some sort of recognition of same-sex relationships ... or I could be totally confused.

You might be thinking of this article....Mennonites in Ohio protest exclusion of gays

[AmericanVictory]

Years ago when teaching in the Frederick,Maryland community college in the evenings I had many of them as students and found them terrific people. They individually believe in pacifism but serve in the armed forces in medic and other non-arms firing roles. The young were quite regular in their participation in sports and other activities. They sensibly saw alcohol use as not different from illegal drug use. I was teaching sociology courses and they were very interested and attentive students. The older women wore, many of them, little hair caps and their clothing tended to be plain but not strikingly out of context of the clothes others wore. They were good farmers and mechanics and the other occupations of the area.

I haven’t had as close an association with very many of them since but there are a good many of them around Maryland. They have taken over a church in what used to be a very small town that was built by my grandfather as an Old School Baptist church years and years ago and keep it up well. I would be surprised if they were connected with the Orthodox but will defer to those who know more about them.

[Tax-chick]

Could be. It’s hard to google the information because there are so many different terms covering various levels of religious recognition of homosexual couples.

[x]

Hussites or Herrnhuter Brethren. Check out the Moravian Church on Wikipedia. They were an early Protestant sect that grew up in Czech areas that had Orthodox roots. There was some resentment against Catholicism that led them to reject Rome a century before Luther.

[Lady Heron]

I Believe they were the first Protestant Church or at least one of them before Luther. Were hunted by the Catholics, hid out in some mountains to escape them. That is all I remember who knows if I got it right.

[vladimir998]

Neither the Moravians, nor the Hussites nor Herrnhuter had Orthodox roots. That is a relatively recent revisionist idea put forward by some Orthodox - especially the Czech Orthodox Church which is deperately trying to create a history since it practically lacks one.

Jerome of Prague is often held up as if he were a convert to Eastern Orthodoxy - yet his “conversion” went unnoted by everyone in his day including by Jerome himself. Not even his enemies, such as John-Jerome of Prague, ever mentioned it.

[narses]

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[Perdogg]

I am from NC and I am only familiar with there Christmas “love feast”.

[AnalogReigns]

I'm a recent Presbyterian seminary graduate, and one of my favorite early histories is that of the Moravian Church.

I've actually been to their most important historic center, a place called Herrnhut, Germany in the far east, very close to the Czech border.

The Moravian denomination descends from the pre-Protestant Christians from Moravia and Bohemia--the 2 historic kingdoms which make up the modern Czech Republic.

About 100 years BEFORE Martin Luther, in the early 1400s in Prague, (about 200 miles or so from Luther's part of Germany) Bohemia, a monk named John Hus, saw a lot of corruption within the Roman Catholic church and strongly preached against it. Like all of Europe to the West, Bohemia and Moravia were firmly Catholic at the time--but had first been evangelized centuries earlier by eastern Orthodox...they really are on the border of eastern Europe.

Hus was protected by King Wenceslaus (yes, the one of Christmas Carol fame) and Hus had some of his thinking influenced by the English followers of John Wycliffe (as there was a royal connection by marriage at that time between Bohemia with England) whom the Roman Catholic Church had declared a heretic. Hus was called to a hearing by the Roman Catholic Church in Germany, and King Wenceslaus got a guarantee of "safe passage" for Hus so he journeyed over to the beautiful lake city of Constance.

Upon reaching Constance, Hus was immediately thrown into a dungeon, and was later tried and then burned at the stake. Guarantees to heretics were not seen as binding...claimed the Church.

Prague and Bohemia reacted an uproar, as John Hus was a popular hero--who had fought a lot of the corruptions of the rich and powerful...(in the richest and most powerful institution of the day, the RC Church). Long story short, a series of wars began, with 3 or 4 Czech groups, against orthodox Roman Catholic groups...and eventually the Roman Catholic forces won...and Czech Protestantism was forcibly crushed. Roman Catholicism was the official religion, and, as in all Europe at the time, other forms of Christianity were simply not allowed (under pain of, the stake...).

Fast forward to the 1700s. The Lutheran Protestant Reformation of the 1500s had not been permitted in Bohemia and Moravia--they were still officially Roman Catholic (while bordering the Lutheran states of Germany). However, some of the proto-Protestant Hussites still existed...secretly...throughout the countryside--even after 300 years of persecution.

A German count, who owned a large estate next to the Czech border, had become a very devout Lutheran--and had gone to seminary and became ordained a Lutheran minister. He was visited by a Hussite, who told him of the Czech bretherens' plight--just across the border. The Count, Rev. Ludwig von Zinzendorf, opened his estate up to these Czech religious refugees--and many streamed over, happy to live in peace according to their conscience.

Things did not go so well in Herrnhut (the new town on the estate)as the new immigrants, now that they were free... started to squabble and fight each other... so Count Zinzendorf put his foot down, and demanded that they meet together and pray...and agree to start living like New Testament Christians.

The Moravians (as they were now called) did start living out their faith...in a spectacular way--rarely seen since say AD 50. Many Germans now were attracted to come to this community of devout Christians. For the first time amidst Protestants and interest in foreign missions formed...and the hard working Moravians--supporting their own missionaries by home-grown industry in Herrnhut--sent out 2 of their number for every 1 that stayed home....

To this day, there are Churches in the South Pacific, or the Aleutian islands, or other way out of the way places, founded in the 1750s by the Moravians. They also re-instituted the New Testament practice of a "love feast" (think an elaborate pot-luck supper!), and had a 100 year 24/7 prayer chain (no I'm not kidding) ...(throughout their period of fantastic missions....). Many came as missionaries to America--and a few were missionaries to American Indians (while certain other Americans were killing them off...). Christmas also had particular significance to Moravians...hence the founding of Bethlehem, Pennsylvania.

I'm not certain the Moravians were ever completely officially pacifistic...however as someone indicated above, at some point they became so. However, they have no connection historically to the Mennonites or the Quakers, and they are not "Anabaptists" the name for early radical Protestants--as their theology has more in common with Lutheranism (and hence classic Protestantism). Probably the reason they would not participate in certain wars, is that they have always formed such independent, self sufficient communities...they never had a dog in the fight--hence just didn't fight. I believe today the Moravians are no longer officially or unofficially Pacifistic.

They are, as a denomination, much like most other mainline denominations...with all the same conflicts and problems with liberal theology....and I'm not sure I'd recommend Moravians as really special today.

However the early history of the Moravians is one of the most bright and shinning stars of all of Christian history.

A classic "Moravian Star"...a geometric form developed by a Moravian math teacher in the 1800s--and now one of the most popular symbols of Christmas all over the world.

[AnalogReigns]

The connection to Eastern Orthodoxy—of which you are correct, there is nothing at all direct—is that centuries before Hus, in the 9th C., Bohemia and Moravia had been evangelized by Orthodox missionaries (Sts. Cyril and Methodius) ...then subsequently when these kingdoms became part of the Germanic Holy Roman Empire, Roman Catholicism was adopted.

Personally I believe the further east you go in Europe (starting with Czech) the more amenable historic attitudes are toward the acceptance of mystery present in Eastern Orthodoxy. I once met a Bulgarian Roman Catholic—eastern rite—and he had quite different attitudes toward certain religious ideas than his western Roman Catholic brethren.

Interestingly, even Luther, and Lutheranism, is more friendly to mystery, than say Calvinism and other more western Protestant traditions. There’s something about that part of the world I guess...

[Alex Murphy]

I'm a recent Presbyterian seminary graduate

In the first round, Geoff Parsons and Rick Benson, of Westminster and Calvin seminaries respectively, went first, as scouts had predicted they would. Parsons heads to a struggling mid-sized Methodist church in Memphis, Tenn., which had the top pick this year. Benson was drafted by a mega-church in Casper, Wyo., which had traded two mid-career pastors for a higher pick. Both draftees say they are ready to "help their teams."

From the thread Calvin grads dominate 2006 pastors draft

[AnalogReigns]

Too funny. Good thing I have no interest in spectator sports....

[AnalogReigns]

Here's the official German website for the town of Herrnhut, birthplace for modern Moravianism. http://www.herrnhut.de/. Being in far to the east in the former communist East Germany, the central parts of Herrnhut were almost burned down by Soviet troops at the end of WWII. However, except for one or two buildings, they were saved.

Herrnhut is a very beautiful peaceful place. I spent a Sunday afternoon there in '06 and even in the rain--it was--well, I have to say, somehow holy.

Particularly "God's Acre" (the cemetery there) where all the early Moravians (except the many who died on the mission field), are buried is a place of real expectation and hope--for I know these people were watchful for the 2nd Coming of Jesus--and the resurrection of the body... (long before the JW's, a watchtower was a Moravian symbol).

[AnalogReigns]

One correction, the King Wenceslaus of Jan (John) Hus’ day was Wenceslaus IV, a descendant of the good king of Christmas Carol fame....

“Hus” by the way is an old German word for “goose” and his death by burning is where we get the phrase, “his goose was cooked!”

[vladimir998]

You wrote:

“The connection to Eastern Orthodoxy...—is that centuries before Hus, in the 9th C., Bohemia and Moravia had been evangelized by Orthodox missionaries (Sts. Cyril and Methodius)...”

I was referring to the ahistorical revisionist idea that Jerome of Prague, John Huss, and other Hussites were really Eastern Orthodox. I first encountered this idea about 8 years ago among some Eastern Orthodox. If I recall correctly, it was actively promoted by the Czech Orthodox Church which is actually less than a century old. I may be confusing the COC with some other church, however. I could find none of the old websites that used to promote the Hussite-became-Orthodox idea.

[Huber]

I’m amazed that it took until your post for someone to provide an accurate history.

Very few members of the Moravian sect are actually ethnically Moravian, but instead tend to be German. Ethnic Moravians are for the most part Catholic.

Another side note is that the name Wachovia (as is in the bank) derives from Moravian history.

Lastly, the earliest examples of what we call classical music in the English colonies in Nort America were in the Moravian communities.