If you believe in God, should you believe in Santa Claus too?

Christian Post ^ | 7/16/2009 | Randal Rauser

[SeekAndFind]

Well I must say, I had a great time reading the comments, critiques and insults that came in after my last post with its modest attempt to define "atheism". In particular, many self-described atheists took umbrage to my claim that atheism is denial of the proposition that God exists. (Apparently my smarmy attitude was also ripe for verbal assault.)

One of my most spirited opponents drew comparisons between belief in God and unicorns as he/she asked: "do you believe in unicorns? Can you disprove the existence of unicorns?" The idea, presumably, is that belief in unicorns and God are equivalent. Thus, if belief in unicorns is irrational then so is belief in God (bad news for the theist). And if disbelief in unicorns is the rational position for the average person on the street then so is disbelief in God (good news for the atheist).

This is an important comparison to consider, but in doing so I am going to switch from unicorns to Santa Claus since the latter (being a concrete individual rather than a type of thing) is a closer parallel to God. So the question: is belief in Santa Claus like belief in God?

First, let's begin to address the question in the manner of Thomas Aquinas, by giving our opponent as fair a shake as possible:

So here we go. Picture yourself a manager at Walmart interviewing a potential employee to work in the warehouse. "Alfred" seems to be a well-adjusted intelligent twenty-five year old who has solid work experience and references, Thus you are inclined to hire him. Then you notice his Rolex watch and you offer a compliment. "Nice watch Alfred."

"Thanks," he replies, "Santa gave it to me." You pause, wait for the punchline, and then slowly, with growing trepidation, you realize that he is deathly serious.

You swallow nervously as Alfred watches you intently. "Santa?" you ask in a futile attempt to sound nonchalant. A bead of sweat rolls down your brow.

"Yes," Alfred replies. "I was very good last year. Santa loves me, and he watches everything we do. So you can trust me Mr. Manager."

Okay, would you hire Alfred even after he confessed belief in Santa Claus? At the very least wouldn't you be at least be less inclined to hire him in light of that belief? You might concede Alfred's point that believing Santa is watching over him will make him more likely to be honest and hard working. But would that potential positive byproduct of his belief be sufficient to allay your concerns?

With that in mind, let's replay the last exchange:

"Nice watch Alfred."

"Thanks. The Lord provided it as an answer to prayer."

Many people would view the invocation of God as much less threatening or epistemologically questionable than invocation of Santa Claus. Indeed, many would be positively encouraged to hear the invocation of God. But if it appears irrational to ascribe the acquisition of the watch to Santa Claus, why is it not equally irrational to ascribe it to God? In short, what makes the Christian any more rational than Alfred?

[Raycpa]

This is fairly good summary:

http://archersmark.blogspot.com/2007/05/good-works-or-gods-work.html

Wednesday, May 23, 2007
Good works or God’s work?
How could one enter heaven? Is it by good works or by God’s work?

Many believe that Salvation can be obtained by doing good things for others and for God. Some people even go to church and attend mass often as they believe their efforts are credited for heaven. There are also people who believe that by helping the poor and sharing their financial blessing to others would give credit to their salvation someday. But how sure are they that these things that they believe are true? Are these things give assurance for our salvation? Are we to do enough good works to be saved?

To answer this... Let us examine the scriptures:

First off, We cannot save ourselves because we are separated from God because of our sins. Infact God considered us His enemies apart from having reconciliation to Him through his Son Jesus Christ.

Romans 5:10-11
“For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”

Romans 3:23 “For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.”
Romans 6:23 “For the wages(payment) of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.”

Yes that is true. All have sinned and the payment of sin is death. Death here refers to spiritual and physical death. Physical death is a condition where our heart stops pumping and our lungs is tired of supplying us oxygen. The principle is this... All will die because of sin. Spiritual death in the other hand refers to our separation from God. God is holy and we are sinful. This is the condition where we are considered spiritually dead. We are separated from God.

Sounds horrible right? We are sinners, we are separated from God and we are considered His enemies. We are doomed to hell.

But...... God loved us so much. He does not want you to suffer and to be separated from Him.

That is why He did His Work. He sent His Son Jesus Christ to die for our sins.

This is God’s work. To save us.
Luke 19:10 Jesus said, “For the Son of Man(Jesus Christ) has come to seek and to save that which was lost.”

John 3:16
“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”

Romans 6:23b “... but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord”

Because of Jesus we will be saved from the punishment of our sins only if we believe that He alone could save us and that we will accept Him in our lives as our Savior and Lord. He is the gift given to us by our heavenly Father. A Gift is something that we did not work to earn it.. it is given to us freely and the only thing we need to do is to accept it.

Ephesians 2:8-9 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works(your works), so that no one can boast.

By faith through prayer, accept Him now as your Savior and Lord. Ask Him to come into your life and pray that He will make you the person He wanted you to be. Give your whole trust in Him like a sky diver who gives all his confidence that his parachute would carry him safe.

Could you follow this prayer and take it as your own. Please pray this sincerely.

“Lord Jesus, I need you. Thank you for dying on the cross for my sins. I open the door of my life and receive you as my Savior and Lord. Thank you for forgiving my sins and giving me eternal life. Take control of my life and make me the person you want me to be.”

1 John 5:11-13
“And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.”

Colossians 1:21-22
Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of[a] your evil behavior. But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—

To answer the question above.... its pretty obvious. :)

God Bless you reader.

Thank you for taking time to read.
Posted by Mark Archer Balberde at 10:31 PM

[arielguard]

You dodged the question. I asked you to now give me the scriptures that instruct us to perform good works which you don’t seem to be able to do. I never claimed we could save ourselves so perhaps you are mistaken as to what I am asking. I see no dichotomy between faith and works otherwise the scriptures would be nonsensical. You can’t have one without the other, and stand before Christ. James made that very clear, and I won’t quote him as I’m sure you know it. Christ himself stated that he casts out those who did not feed, or clothe him. Note that those who were cast out thought they were saved.

Oh...don’t make this statement to other Christians as it’s just rude. “Could you follow this prayer and take it as your own. Please pray this sincerely.” I grew up with this so don’t treat me like I’m some ignoramous.

[Raycpa]

If your heart is not right, then all the good works in the world are worthless. Even those good works we perform after we are saved are worthless unless they are led by God.

Feeding the poor, visiting the sick and the imprisoned, tithing. All have biblical basis but if your doing it because the bible tells you or your christian leaders tell you then its all for naught and insulting to God.

When you are saved and you are in prayer with God consistently, God will bring the needs of people He wants you to serve and make it clear in your heart a desire to serve them. It won’t ever feel like a burden or a sacrifice, it will feel as a blessing and your heart will be full of joy.

[MissDairyGoodnessVT]

I am a child with blind faith

[MissDairyGoodnessVT]

I am a child with blind faith and you just go and find out about St. Therese of Lisieux.

[philman_36]

I am a child with blind faith...
I would have thought that you were an adult, assured in your faith.

...and you just go and find out about St. Therese of Lisieux. Saint Therese of Lisieux
Done. What specifically was I supposed to "find out"?

[Godzilla]

In short, what makes the Christian any more rational than Alfred (who invoked Santa as the one who gave him his watch)?

In short it is the the life, death and resurrection of the very real Jesus Christ.

[MyTwoCopperCoins]

Well, Jesus said that He was God. No other non-cult religion has that testimony.

 

 

 

   The Bhagavad-Gita.
 

Chapter VIII

ARJUNA: WHO is that BRAHMA? What that Soul of Souls,
The ADHYATMAN? What, Thou Best of All!
Thy work, the KARMA? Tell me what it is
Thou namest ADHIBHUTA? What again
Means ADHIDAIVA? Yea, and how it comes	5
Thou canst be ADHIYAJNA in thy flesh?
Slayer of Madhu! Further, make me know
How good men find thee in the hour of death?
KRISHNA: I BRAHMA am! the One Eternal God,
And ADHYATMAN is My Being’s name,	10
The Soul of Souls! What goeth forth from Me,
Causing all life to live, is KARMA called:
And, Manifested in divided forms,
I am the ADHIBHUTA, Lord of Lives;
And ADHIDAIVA, Lord of all the gods,	15
Because I am PURUSHA, who begets.
And ADHIYAJNA, Lord of Sacrifice,
I—speaking with thee in this body here—
Am, thou embodied one! (for all the shrines
Flame unto Me!) And, at the hour of death,	20
He that hath meditated Me alone,
In putting off his flesh, comes forth to Me,
Enters into My Being—doubt thou not!
But, if he meditated otherwise
At hour of death, in putting off the flesh,	25
He goes to what he looked for, Kunti’s Son!
Because the Soul is fashioned to its like.
Have Me, then, in thy heart always! and fight!
Thou too, when heart and mind are fixed on Me,
Shalt surely come to Me! All come who cleave	30
With never-wavering will of firmest faith,
Owning none other gods: all come to Me,
The Uttermost, Purusha, Holiest!
Whoso hath known Me, Lord of sage and singer,
Ancient of days; of all the Three Worlds Stay,	35
Boundless,—but unto every atom Bringer
Of that which quickens it: whoso, I say,
Hath known My form, which passeth mortal knowing;
Seen my effulgence—which no eye hath seen—
Than the sun’s burning gold more brightly glowing,	40
Dispering darkness,—unto him hath been
Right life! And, in the hour when life is ending,
With mind set fast and trustful piety,
Drawing still breath beneath calm brows unbending,
In happy peace that faithful one doth die,—	45
In glad peace passeth to Purusha’s heaven,
The place which they who read the Vedas name
AKSHARAM, “Ultimate;” whereto have striven
Saints and ascetics—their road is the same.
That way—the highest way—goes he who shuts	50
The gates of all his sense, locks desire
Safe in his heart, centres the vital airs
Upon his parting thought, steadfastly set;
And, murmuring OM, the sacred syllable—
Emblem of BRAHM—dies, meditating Me.	55
For who, none other gods regarding, looks
Ever to Me, easily am I gained
By such a Yôgi; and, attaining Me,
They fall not—those Mahatmas—back to birth,
To life, which is the place of pain, which ends,	60
But take the way of utmost blessedness.
The worlds, Arjuna!—even Brahma’s world—
Roll back again from Death to Life’s unrest;
But they, O Kunti’s Son! that reach to Me,
Taste birth no more. If ye know Brahma’s Day	65
Which is a thousand Yugas; if ye know
The thousand Yugas making Brahma’s Night,
Then know ye Day and Night as He doth know!
When that vast Dawn doth break, th’ Invisible
Is brought anew into the Visible;	70
When that deep Night doth darken, all which is
Fades back again to Him Who sent it forth;
Yea! this vast company of living things—
Again and yet again produced—expires
At Brahma’s Nightfall; and, at Brahma’s Dawn,	75
Riseth, without its will, to life new-born.
But—higher, deeper, innermost—abides
Another Life, not like the life of sense,
Escaping sight, unchanging. This endures
When all created things have passed away:	80
This is that Life named the Unmanifest,
The Infinite! the All! the Uttermost.
Thither arriving none return. That Life
Is Mine, and I am there! And, Prince! by faith
Which wanders not, there is a way to come	85
Thither. I, the PURUSHA, I Who spread
The Universe around me—in Whom dwell
All living Things—may so be reached and seen!
Richer than holy fruit on Vedas growing,
Greater than gifts, better than prayer or fast,	90
Such wisdom is! The Yôgi, this way knowing,
Comes to the Utmost Perfect Peace at last.
Here endeth Chapter VIII. of the Bhagavad-Gîtâ, entitled
“Aksharaparabrahmayôg,” or “The Book of
Religion by Devotion to the One Supreme God”	95

 

 

 

 

[rom]

They never existed, and no historian mentions them. Figments of imaginations.

[MyTwoCopperCoins]

Who never existed?

[rom]

Krishna never existed.

[MyTwoCopperCoins]

Krishna never existed.

You are right. Neither did Jesus, the "Son of God".

Jesus of Nazareth, the human, maybe. After all, what was it about those pieces of the "cross" again? Collect them all and you can make a couple dozen life-sized ones?

All religious figures throughout mankind's history were invented in the minds of men, and manipulated suitably for empire-building. It's not a coincidence that the Papal Office is the progeny of the Roman Empire of yore, complete with crown and staff.

 

"What havoc has been made of books through every century of the Christian era? Where are fifty gospels condemned as spurious by the bull of Pope Gelasius? Where are forty wagon-loads of Hebrew manuscripts burned in France, by order of another pope, because of suspected heresy? Remember the Index Expurgato-rius, the Inquisition, the stake, the axe, the halter, and the guillotine; and, oh! horrible, the rack! This is as bad, if not worse, than a slow fire. Nor should the Lion's Mouth be forgotten. Have you considered that system of holy lies and pious frauds that has raged and triumphed for 1,500 years."
 

-- John Adams, letter to John Taylor, 1814, quoted by Norman Cousins in In God We Trust: The Religious Beliefs and Ideas of the American Founding Fathers (New York: Harper & Brothers, 1958), p. 106-7, from James A Haught, ed, 2000 Years of Disbelief

[MyTwoCopperCoins]

And what vivid imaginations of those Krishna writers, whose message this Christ-figure writers of the Middle Eastern school of imagination echoed, several centuries later!

[Earthdweller]

I'm in the medical field. I've watched children suffer.

Jesus recognizes the suffering in this world and offers hope for an eternal future without pain. He never said it would be easy on this earth. We are part animal and part spirit, the suffering for all of us will end when the two separate...and only then.

[rom]

My friend, you’re letting your mind wander around in search of straw men again. Stay on point.

Krishna never existed as a historical figure. So quoting the words of an imaginary person is simply ridiculous.

Jesus of Nazareth existed as a historical figure. My original point was that no other historical figure claimed to be God in the flesh.

What relic hunters claim to be parts of the “true cross”, and what so-called Christians have done in Christ’s name is not germane to this particular argument. Neither are inquisitions, etc.

[rom]

Yeah, because we know Krishna preached about atonement of sin and repentance, and the need for his death to atone for the sins of the world.

Sure. Because, unless you somehow missed it — that is the centerpiece of the Gospel.

[Earthdweller]

Do you believe you have a spirit or are you just made of dust?

[CodeToad]

I know where Christmas presents come from and how those stockings get filled, why don’t you go ahead and explain when time began and the universe came from.

[MyTwoCopperCoins]

LOL, you're making strawman arguments yourself, by implying that Jesus, "the Son of God" and Jesus the human, are the same. The latter was probably true. The former, the work of mankind's imagination. Jesus, like Krishna, was a fusion of earlier mythologies.

"No one has the slightest physical evidence to support a historical Jesus; no artifacts, dwelling, works of carpentry, or self-written manuscripts. All claims about Jesus derive from writings of other people. There occurs no contemporary Roman record that shows Pontius Pilate executing a man named Jesus. Devastating to historians, there occurs not a single contemporary writing that mentions Jesus. All documents about Jesus got written well after the life of the alleged Jesus from either: unknown authors, people who had never met an earthly Jesus, or from fraudulent, mythical or allegorical writings. Although one can argue that many of these writings come from fraud or interpolations, I will use the information and dates to show that even if these sources did not come from interpolations, they could still not serve as reliable evidence for a historical Jesus, simply because all sources derive from hearsay accounts."

http://nobeliefs.com/exist.htm

[rom]

My argument was that Jesus of Nazareth claimed to be Jesus the Son of God. How does that qualify as a straw man when it was an assertion I made in my original post?

The level of historical data surrounding Jesus is astounding btw, regardless of what that atheist website wants you to believe.

You can start with the lives of 12 disciples who were uneducated fishermen and tax collectors who would be persecuted and put to death (all except one).

The religion Jesus of Nazareth started was not a comfortable one protected by the authorities (Jew or Roman) of His day. These people went to death willingly to pursue (in your thought) a made up man. No one does that.

You should find it hard to explain people like the Apostle Paul, Peter and John if Jesus never existed.

No one died for mythological characters.