Posted on 07/17/2009 5:37:12 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
Well I must say, I had a great time reading the comments, critiques and insults that came in after my last post with its modest attempt to define "atheism". In particular, many self-described atheists took umbrage to my claim that atheism is denial of the proposition that God exists. (Apparently my smarmy attitude was also ripe for verbal assault.)
One of my most spirited opponents drew comparisons between belief in God and unicorns as he/she asked: "do you believe in unicorns? Can you disprove the existence of unicorns?" The idea, presumably, is that belief in unicorns and God are equivalent. Thus, if belief in unicorns is irrational then so is belief in God (bad news for the theist). And if disbelief in unicorns is the rational position for the average person on the street then so is disbelief in God (good news for the atheist).
This is an important comparison to consider, but in doing so I am going to switch from unicorns to Santa Claus since the latter (being a concrete individual rather than a type of thing) is a closer parallel to God. So the question: is belief in Santa Claus like belief in God?
First, let's begin to address the question in the manner of Thomas Aquinas, by giving our opponent as fair a shake as possible:
So here we go. Picture yourself a manager at Walmart interviewing a potential employee to work in the warehouse. "Alfred" seems to be a well-adjusted intelligent twenty-five year old who has solid work experience and references, Thus you are inclined to hire him. Then you notice his Rolex watch and you offer a compliment. "Nice watch Alfred."
"Thanks," he replies, "Santa gave it to me." You pause, wait for the punchline, and then slowly, with growing trepidation, you realize that he is deathly serious.
You swallow nervously as Alfred watches you intently. "Santa?" you ask in a futile attempt to sound nonchalant. A bead of sweat rolls down your brow.
"Yes," Alfred replies. "I was very good last year. Santa loves me, and he watches everything we do. So you can trust me Mr. Manager."
Okay, would you hire Alfred even after he confessed belief in Santa Claus? At the very least wouldn't you be at least be less inclined to hire him in light of that belief? You might concede Alfred's point that believing Santa is watching over him will make him more likely to be honest and hard working. But would that potential positive byproduct of his belief be sufficient to allay your concerns?
With that in mind, let's replay the last exchange:
"Nice watch Alfred."
"Thanks. The Lord provided it as an answer to prayer."
Many people would view the invocation of God as much less threatening or epistemologically questionable than invocation of Santa Claus. Indeed, many would be positively encouraged to hear the invocation of God. But if it appears irrational to ascribe the acquisition of the watch to Santa Claus, why is it not equally irrational to ascribe it to God? In short, what makes the Christian any more rational than Alfred?
So, what did the Buddha discover under the Bodhi tree? Self, or no self?
In the interest of truth, the Buddha never told anyone to trust him. In fact, he said just the opposite.
Buddhism in contrast teaches us that the entire Universe is Eternal (impossible thanks to the 2nd law of thermodynamics) and is basically an illusion. Okay. Then you have that reincarnation thing — where you keep coming back even though you have no clue what you did wrong in your last life. That’s kind of messed up.
Buddhism teaches the illusion of time, of a past and future that does not exist in reality but are mental constructs. In reality only now exists. One sees or one doesn't, and it isn't that hard to see.
The Western version of Buddhism has strayed very far from its roots. Christianity as well.
This is precisely why Buddhism has the inability to deal with the real world ;)
But it does, regardless. As D.T. Suzuki said, there are more tears than you might imagine.
Yes, you are supposed to follow a variety of precepts, much the same way a Christian follows the 10 Commandments, and in some branches of Buddhist thought much attention is paid to "right action" and the doing of good deeds. Meditating is often called praying in other religions.
What great and noble organization like the Salvation Army or the Red Cross (originally anyway) have they produced?
Major portions of the civilizations of Asia, but since the spread of the religion occurred a long time ago, you probably aren't familiar with them. A number of ideas that grew up within Buddhism may well have informed or influenced later religions, such as Christianity.
In fact, there is no good basis for the claims of the Buddha other than to “trust him”.
Actually, the Buddha himself rejected the idea of "trusting" him, but instead challenged his disciples and followers to conduct the same explorations and experiments in life that he did and to discover what he believed to be truths for themselves. This is perhaps the primary reason why you don't find many Buddhist missionaries - doing so is inconsistent with core beliefs of the religion as interpreted by many of its branches.
No one predicted the coming of the Buddha either.
And that is completely consistent with the message of the Buddha - he never claimed to be any kind of God, or anything other than a person who discovered a bunch of important and interesting truths about life. Many of those truths are as applicable to life as a Christian believer as they are to a Buddhist.
“Any being who is all loving would never permit that.”
What do you mean by “all loving”?
“I am not saying God is evil or bad, only that if there is a God I don’t pretend to have any idea what God is doing or why God is doing it.”
No kidding. I pray the Lord will break you of your belief that you are worthy to sit in judgment of the Sovereign of the universe.
Religion is a human endeavor.
I guess I was not clear on my point. In Christianity, it is *God’s work* that brings salvation, not *man’s work*
The 10 Commandments are moral laws, but one doesn’t reach salvation in Christianity by trying really hard to follow them :)
God is Santa , in that God is Jehovah Jireh “ Our Provider and he answers the desires of our hearts in his will !
8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
God is Santa , in that God is Jehovah Jireh “ Our Provider and he answers the desires of our hearts in his will !
My thoughts also.
Santa means saint
and Claus is a last name of Saint Nicholas,
so yes I believe in Santa Claus, he was a very real man that lived a life so filled with the love of God that it touched the lives of other in miracles even after his death.
I guess the next question should be who do the children of atheists believe in and from what source do they find the power to do godly things.
I would guess that the children of atheists don’t really concern themselves with godly things.
Do the children of atheists believe in sin?
In a world without sin, anything is possible and there is no right or wrong, so what stops a child or an adult for that matter from doing whatever they want to do?
I believe it is the individual’s conscience. Just because there may or may not be retribution or punishment for something, doesn’t mean someone is capable or will commit a crime or in this case, sin. If a person is rotten, then he will do rotten things. I believe we are all as God made us.
Why do you think they burned Crosses?
The Reconstruction-era Klan did not burn crosses, but Thomas Dixon’s 1902–1907 trilogy of novels portrayed a romanticized version of the Ku Klux Klan in which its members did burn crosses. Dixon may have based the idea on descriptions of the fiery cross in the writing of Sir Walter Scott, or on other literary or historical sources. The 1915 movie The Birth of a Nation was based on two of Dixon’s novels. Birth of a Nation quotes Dixon’s novel The Clansman as saying:
In olden times when the Chieftain of our people summoned the clan on an errand of life and death, the Fiery Cross, extinguished in sacrificial blood, was sent by swift courier from village to village… The ancient symbol of an unconquered race of men.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_burning
Fell out of his sleigh at 3,000 feet......
Ok...now where in the bible does it tell me to do good works?
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