How Old Is Your Church?

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[Salvation]

How Old Is Your Church?

If you are a Lutheran, your religion was founded by Martin Luther, an ex- monk of the Catholic Church, in the year 1517.

If you belong to the Church of England, your religion was founded by King Henry VIII in the year 1534 because the Pope would not grant him a divorce with the right to remarry.

If you are a Presbyterian, your religion was founded by John Knox in Scotland in the year 1560.

If you are a Protestant Episcopalian, your religion was an offshoot of the Church of England founded by Samuel Seabury in the American colonies in the 17th century.

If you are a Congregationalist, your religion was originated by Robert Brown in Holland in 1582.

If you are a Methodist, your religion was launched by John and Charles Wesley in England in 1744.

If you are a Unitarian, Theophilus Lindley founded your church in London in 1774.

If you are a Mormon (Latter Day Saints), Joseph Smith started your religion in Palmyra, N.Y., in 1829.

If you are a Baptist, you owe the tenets of your religion to John Smyth, who launched it in Amsterdam in 1605.

If you are of the Dutch Reformed church, you recognize Michaelis Jones as founder, because he originated your religion in New York in 1628.

If you worship with the Salvation Army, your sect began with William Booth in London in 1865.

If you are a Christian Scientist, you look to 1879 as the year in which your religion was born and to Mrs. Mary Baker Eddy as its founder.

If you belong to one of the religious organizations known as 'Church of the Nazarene," "Pentecostal Gospel." "Holiness Church," "Pilgrim Holiness Church," "Jehovah's Witnesses," your religion is one of the hundreds of new sects founded by men within the past century.

If you are Catholic, you know that your religion was founded in the year 33 by Jesus Christ the Son of God, and it is still the same Church.

[kosta50]

My take is we will never understand how God can know all, yet give us free will.

Yup, that's about right.

It’s a mystery of God that defies logic. This is where faith enters the equation. We believe it because we do.

Pretty much. The best thing is to just leave it all in God's hands (the ultimate faith) and try to walk the way of Christ, show mercy and compassion, and goodwill to all mankind. If we all did that, we would pretty much have paradise, if not heaven on earth. :)

[PugetSoundSoldier]

There you go, I fully agree.

But the engineer in me plans to have many a wonderful conversation on such mysteries with the greatest scientific minds in Heaven and Jesus - I’m sure He’s a heck of a physicist, given what He’s created here!

[dixiechick2000]

“The Nicene creed says “I believe in the one holy catholic and Apostolic Church.”

I never stated that that is the Catholic Church. If you attest to the rest of the Nicene creed, to the definition of the Godhead, then I would call you Christian, yes.”

Thank you.

“I don’t know what the Southern Baptist as a group believe in — does the ENTIRE SBC attest to the Nicene creed?”

You know what?
I had never heard of the Nicene creed.
So, do you know what I did?
I searched, and researched, to find out what that meant.

The Nicene creed is the basic tenet of Christianity.
Just because some folks broke with Rome, it doesn’t mean they left true Christianity (the Nicene creed) behind.
Protestants and reformers aren’t your enemy, and are in fact your brethren.

I would hope that, in the future, you would do some research before you equate any religion with the Mormons, Muslims, and Seventh Day Adventists.

[dixiechick2000]

You said that you weren’t being provacative.
However, I will refresh your memory.

“Perhaps you can explain how can God who is one and indivisible have a Son and still be single, simple and indivisible? Was he sent or did he come down from heavens? Was he raised from the dead or did he raise himself on the third day? Or do you believe in three Gods?”

I refer you to this...

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2280714/posts?page=623#623

I suggest that, before you make comments like that, you do your own research.
That would prevent you from appearing to be provacative, or a fool...take your pick.

[ReadTheLaw]

According to every Bible ever published salvation comes by accepting Jesus as savior, repenting of sin, and being Baptized. Church membership is not a requirement for salvation. Souls in all denominations are saved when they follow the plan of salvation outlined in the Bible. If you accept the Bible as God’s word you have to dismiss the claims of “only my church is acceptable” as egocentric ignorance. Remember the leaders of the church that existed when Christ came did not even know who He was. Isn’t it interesting that so much man made stuff has been added to the simple plan of Salvation that Jesus taught. Time to get back to basics and accept all Christians who follow the simple salvation plan that Jesus taught. All other fratricidal debate is pointless.

[Cronos]

You know what? I had never heard of the Nicene creed. So, do you know what I did? I searched, and researched, to find out what that meant.

That is SAD and depressing. The SBC and other Protestant groups NEEDS to be teaching the Creed. Otherwise, you will always be looked at with suspicion by us from The Church as we don't know what you believe in -- all Protestant groups who don't clearly say they believe in The Creed could be Jehovah's Witnesses to us

And you haven't told me if your particular within the SBC group state that they believe in the Nicene Creed.

If they don't, then I can't call them Christian -- you said you do, so I would call you Christian


Protestant groups include a wide umbrella of groups including Baptists, Unitarians, ECUSA, Amish, Mennonites, Calvinists, Lutherans, ELCA, PCA, PCUSA, Swedish "Reformed" etc. -- and many of those aren't Christians, like the ECUSA for example, who have taken sola scriptura to a new level.

[dixiechick2000]

Do you know what I find to be sad?
It’s that folks like you have no clue as to what Southern Baptists are, yet you choose to be judgemental of us.

The reason I didn’t know what the Nicene creed is, is that it’s not called by that name.
Not only is it taught, but it is lived by Southern Baptists.
All except the part about the “We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.”
To us, it’s not just a prayer, either.
It’s the basic tenet of Christianity, and you have to believe it to be saved.

I’m not going to speak to the other denominations you mentioned.
If you want to find out about them, I highly encourage you to do so.

Now, I’m going to leave this thread to those who are willfully uneducated, and holier than thou.

BTW, what you and other Catholics think of us is of no consequence.

[dixiechick2000]

One more thing...including Southern Baptists with Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, and Muslims says more about you than it does about me.

[kosta50]

You said that you weren’t being provacative. However, I will refresh your memory.Perhaps you can explain how can God who is one and indivisible have a Son and still be single, simple and indivisible? Was he sent or did he come down from heavens? Was he raised from the dead or did he raise himself on the third day? Or do you believe in three Gods?”

You find that provocative? LOL! Asking yo a simple theological question is provocative?!? Please let's deal with reason and not with viscera!

I refer you to this...http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2280714/posts?page=623#623

"This" only tells me what I always knew: some baptists believe what's in the Creed and some don't. So, as a group, I can look at Baptists as a heterodox community of Christians and non-Christians. Take your pick.

I suggest that, before you make comments like that, you do your own research. That would prevent you from appearing to be provacative, or a fool...take your pick.

I do my research and, unlike some, if I can't answer a question, I either let it go or say I don't know. I don't do what others seem to do in such situations, something foolish like throw it back and say it's "provocative" just to avoid embarrassing myself.

[kosta50]

I’m sure He’s a heck of a physicist, given what He’s created here!

Why? If the Bible is any indication of how the world was created, then he neither employed nor was constrained by physical laws. That would make him anything but a physicist. :)

[MarkBsnr]

***The reason I didn’t know what the Nicene creed is, is that it’s not called by that name.***

It is among Christians. What do you guys call it?

[MarkBsnr]

***One more thing...including Southern Baptists with Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, and Muslims says more about you than it does about me.***

Cronos isn’t a pagan and obviously includes pagans with other pagans. I suppose that it is a testament to his faith and Christianity; I am gratified that you recognize that about him.

[Salvation]

You might find these interesting.

What’s the Point of Creeds?
Who Needs a Creed? (part 1 of 12)

Creed 7: Ascended Into Heaven
Beginning Catholic: Creeds: Apostles, Nicene, Athanasian [Ecumenical]
Beginning Catholic: Basic Tenets of Catholicism [Ecumenical]
The Catholic Nicene Creed
We Believe in One God...: The Nicene Creed at Mass [Catholic/Orthodox Caucus]
I Believe [Apostle's Creed]

Why the Creed Doesn't Mention the Eucharist
The Apostles' Creed in Public and Private Worship
More Than Our Father [The Creed]
The Nicene Creed in Greek and Latin
The Creed - latest revisions proposed by ICEL

[dixiechick2000]

You guys are going to have a very rude awakening when you get to heaven.
You’re going to find a bunch of us “pagans” in attendance.

The one thing that you refuse to recognize is that our beliefs, as Christians, are the same.

Why is that, I wonder?

Thank you for the links, Salvation, but I’m already saved.

[Cronos]

The reason I didn’t know what the Nicene creed is, is that it’s not called by that name

What do you call it then?

The Baptist thought is supposed to be sola scriptura, individual interpretation, right?

[Cronos]

One more thing...including Southern Baptists with Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, and Muslims says more about you than it does about me

In the matter of being outside Christ' Apostolic Church, yes. In the matter of Chronological "generations" of Protestants, the SBC is in the same timeline as the Mormons or JWs -- the 3rd generation (after the 1st: Anglicans, Lutherans etc and 2nd: Wesleyans etc) -- that's a fact based on the timelines.

in terms of dogma, none of those mentioned are similar, yes.

[Cronos]

"This" only tells me what I always knew: some baptists believe what's in the Creed and some don't. So, as a group, I can look at Baptists as a heterodox community of Christians and non-Christians. Take your pick.

that's my point dixie -- you asked me what I think of SBC's -- if you don't define yourselves, then we would say what Kosta says "a heterodox community of Christians (who believe what's in the Creed) and non-Christians (who don't believe what's in the Creed).

If you don't believe in the Triune God, if you believe Christ was Adopted or was a man who became God or that God the Father is different from the God of the Jews, then as per the Creed, you are not Christian.

you may still be a very good person (many Mormons are decent, good people -- perhaps a higher % of good people than among Christians) but NOT a Christian.

[MarkBsnr]

***You guys are going to have a very rude awakening when you get to heaven.
You’re going to find a bunch of us “pagans” in attendance.***

How do you know all this? I thought that Jesus was the Judge, not individual men.

***The one thing that you refuse to recognize is that our beliefs, as Christians, are the same.***

Not on many things such as the Sacraments including the Eucharist, the role of the priest, the nature of God’s saving Grace and the role of each individual in his own salvation.

***Thank you for the links, Salvation, but I’m already saved.***

Not even St. Paul knew that he was saved. Are you more in God’s Grace than St. Paul?

[kosta50]

You guys are going to have a very rude awakening when you get to heaven. You’re going to find a bunch of us “pagans” in attendance.

And just how do you KNOW that?

[kosta50]

How do you know all this?

Beat me to it, Mark! Good job. :)