How long has this been going on?
Posted on 06/18/2009 8:52:48 AM PDT by Salvation
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I hope so.
Time for the Hurry-Up Offense.
How long has this been going on?
2010 isn’t soon enough for me, however. I would like to see some of these done now. Give it to us slowly.
But then the USCCB moves sloooowly, doesn’t it?
Holy See to Facilitate Expeditious Approval for the [English translation of the]Roman Missal
Priest who is new liturgy official chief praised as 'incredible theologian'
Pope Benedict appoints American priest to oversee liturgy (Fr. Agustine Di Noia O.P.)
The New Missal - Historic Moment in Liturgical Renewal [Bishop Serratelli]
How the New Missal is Being Translated, and Why
Teaching the New Missal - Some Parishes Already Gearing Up for Mass Changes
Be patient. It’s coming. LOL!
How long? Not sure exactly, but I do know that there are some articles that site 2002.
“Is Pope Benedict putting the pressure on the U. S. Bishops or what?”
####
Not to hijack the thread, but another answer to your question would be that this is the meeting that was pointed to last month, for any disciplinary action regarding the Notre Dame/0bama fiasco.
No, I’m not holding my breath....
Check out some of the other links above.
The Committee for Divine Worship IS meeting and making decisions about this translation in June and November if I remember correctly.
And, yes, the Notre Dame issue is still on the table.
I’m hoping for a real smack-down by the Holy Spirit! Maybe that’s why B16 is Pope. Bring it, Benedict!
I’d also like to see strict guidelines about homilies. They should cover sin, and Church teaching, and our modern day challenges; not more feel-good, kumbaya messages. My children used to complain about how insipid most homilies are.
“The Committee for Divine Worship IS meeting and making decisions about this translation in June and November if I remember correctly.”
####
I am using a 1962 (Pre Vatican II) English/Latin Missal printed recently by Baronius press.
I’m not sure, but I think it has “Roman Missal” somewhere in the title.
So are we talking about a NEW translation? If so, I suppose the links will discuss the advantages of this new translation.
The Pope is in the Missal launching buisness now eh?
You wrote:
“I am using a 1962 (Pre Vatican II) English/Latin Missal printed recently by Baronius press.”
I’ve been tempted to buy one of those, but I already have six or seven others.
“I’m not sure, but I think it has “Roman Missal” somewhere in the title.”
It might be.
“So are we talking about a NEW translation? If so, I suppose the links will discuss the advantages of this new translation.”
Yes, on both counts. This is a better missal - long delayed by liberals in ICEL - of the new Mass.
The Baronius volume is a beautifully produced book. Well worth considering, in addition to being preferred by many because of its pre-Vatican II non-liberal verbiage.
So, if I am understanding all of this correctly, it seems like the “new” new translation, might be seeking to revisit the past traditional language.
Yep, the new translation is an improvement over the current one. It returns the langauge, the phrases used, to a more accurate rendering of the Latin.
Latin Mass goers should now be able to recognize the responses as agreeing in wording with they ones they have printed in their 1962 missals. Finally!
“Is Pope Benedict putting the pressure on the U. S. Bishops or what?”
Oh dear me, yes. At this breakneck rate, they may have the new missals in my parish for my funeral Mass (which I hope will not be for some decades).
Some examples taken from a 3 year old article about the coming changes:
Striking changes
The following analysis identifies a few of the more striking examples of change in the new translation-but there are many more.
The first indication that things are to be different will come early in the Mass with the congregation’s response to “The Lord be with you” where they are to say: “And with your spirit”-not “And also with you.” The original Latin reads: Et cum spiritu tuo, which is now correctly translated. The original ICEL translators appeared to have major difficulties with “soul” and “spirit,” purging mention of these in a number of places, despite what the Latin edition clearly states. These are now restored across the entire Missal.
During the Confiteor, the Latin mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa is translated accurately as “through my fault, through my fault, through my most grievous fault” and not just “through my own fault.” Worshippers are also reminded to strike their breast as they say these words-a practice that has fallen into general disuse, though it is called for in the present Missal.
In the Gloria, “peace to his people on earth” becomes “peace on earth to people of good will,” which is literally what the Latin says, although the inclusive “people” is retained for hominibus, which is literally the generic “men.”
“Sin” of the world now becomes “sins” of the world-the Latin peccata being plural. “Sin” suggests a collective guilt or “sinful structures” rather than our personal sinfulness.
The omission in the present translation of numerous expressions in the Latin text that emphasise a Catholic theological understanding has been rectified in the new translation. Examples of these include the phrase onlybegotten Son, of your bounty, deigned, humbly, blessed, almighty, most merciful, glorious, and graciously.
Another significant change occurs in the Nicene Creed, where Credo is translated accurately as “I believe” rather than the present “We believe.” In addition, people are reminded to bow at the words “and by the Holy Spirit became incarnate of the Virgin Mary, and was made man.” This practice, while called for in the present Missal, is rarely encountered.
It seems taken for granted, even by those who should know better, that most Catholics now find the generic expression “man”-meaning the human race-jarring. Yet one continues to hear in science documentaries about the origins of man. Fortunately, there are few such “lapses” in the new translation.
The Orate Fratres (Pray my brothers and sisters, or more literally, my brethren) translates meum ac vestrum sacrificium as “my sacrifice and yours” and not “our sacrifice.” The latter blurs the role of the priest celebrant and worshippers.
Perhaps the most striking example of the liberties taken by the earlier
ICEL translators can be found in Eucharistic Prayer I (the original Roman Canon carried over from the Tridentine Mass). Here, the present English version is almost unrecognisable when set against the Latin edition and the new draft translation, which follows the Latin text closely and restores a much-needed sense of the sacred.
A typical example of the new prose used is: “Most merciful Father, we therefore humbly pray and implore you through Jesus Christ, your Son, our Lord, to accept and bless these gifts, these offerings, these holy and undefiled sacrifices.”
In the present Missal, this passage reads as: “We come to you Father, with praise and thanksgiving, through Jesus Christ your Son. Through him we ask you to accept and bless these gifts we offer you in sacrifice.” Instead of the priest “asking” God, he will say that we “humbly pray and implore”-a more appropriate approach for mere mortals in the presence of the Almighty.
The pattern continues throughout Eucharistic Prayer I-and to some extent in the other Eucharistic Prayers.
The text now used during the Consecration reads: “Again he gave you thanks and praise, gave the cup to his disciples, and said..” The new translation follows the Latin closely: “.taking also this noble cup into his holy and venerable hands, once more giving him thanks, he blessed it and gave it to his disciples, saying..”
Following the Consecration, the present first Acclamation, “Christ has died, Christ has risen, Christ will come again,” becomes in the new translation, “We proclaim your death, O Lord, and profess your resurrection until you come”-which is what the Latin actually says. Later, “Look with favour upon these offerings and accept them as once you accepted the gifts of your servant Abel.”-which sounds as if the priest is telling God to do something-is correctly translated as: “Be pleased to look on them with a favourable and kindly face and to accept them, as you were pleased to accept the gifts of your servant Abel..”
At the beginning of Eucharistic Prayer III, the words, “From age to age you gather a people to yourself, so that from east to west a perfect offering may be made to the glory of your name,” becomes in the new translation: “.you never cease to gather a people to yourself, so that from the rising of the sun to its setting a pure oblation may be offered to your name”-with geographical space transformed into time.
In the introduction to the Our Father (the only portion provided), the present words “Jesus taught us to call God our Father, and so we have the courage to say” become the more literal: “Taught by commands that bring salvation and formed by the divine instruction, we have the courage to say.”
The celebrant’s words before Communion are currently: “Lord Jesus Christ, with faith in your love and mercy I eat your body and drink your blood. Let it not bring me condemnation, but health in mind and body.” The new version reads: “May receiving your Body and Blood, Lord Jesus Christ, not bring me to judgment and condemnation, but through your love and mercy let it be my protection in mind and body, and a healing remedy.”
The priest says in the present Missal: “This is the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. Happy are those who are called to his supper.”
The new version is far more striking, with the words “This is” replaced by the stronger (and more accurate) “Behold” (Ecce), and the word “happy” by “blessed” (beati): “Behold the Lamb of God, behold him who takes away the sins of the world. Blessed are they who have been called to the supper of the Lamb.”
Mistranslation
At this point, congregations will be made particularly aware of the extent of change as they recite the words, “Lord, I am not worthy that thou should come under my roof but only say the word, and my soul shall be healed.”
The present version, which is a gross mistranslation, empties the response of its scriptural echoes, reading: “Lord, I am not worthy to receive you, but only say the word and I shall be healed.” The new text refers us to Luke 7:6-7, from which the words “come under my roof “ (sub tectum meum) derive. This is the Gospel account of Our Lord’s curing of the centurion’s dying slave. The centurion says: “I am not worthy to have you come under my roof “ (Catholic RSV edition).
Similar illustrations can be multiplied.
But what these examples demonstrate most strikingly is that English-speaking Catholics for far too long have had to put up with a poorly translated Missal text which, arguably, has eroded for many their sense of the sacred and their doctrinal understandings.
We can now look forward with keen anticipation to a new English Missal that faithfully conveys the truths of faith and inspires a sense of the sacred: lex orandi, lex credendi.
http://catholicinsight.com/online/church/liturgy/new_mass.shtml
Yep ... trying to shoot down a whole hairy horde of incoming liberal lunatics.
Well said!
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