Tiller’s missing excommunication (LCMS)

Get Religion ^ | 6/8/2009 | Mollie Ziegler

[markomalley]

Last Sunday, late-term abortion doctor George Tiller was gunned down in the foyer of his Lutheran church, where he served as an usher. As anyone with even a cursory understanding of Lutheranism in America could surmise, that church was a member of the Evangelical Lutheran Church of America. Of the various Lutheran church bodies in America, the ELCA is the most mainline and has the most supportive position on legalized abortion.

As soon as the terrible news about Tiller’s murder hit the wire, many bloggers and liberal pundits noted that Tiller’s active church membership was at odds with the stereotype of how abortion and religion are related. It didn’t take long for that same meme to make it to the mainstream media stories.

What none of these stories have explained is that Tiller had previously been excommunicated by a Lutheran congregation on account of his lack of repentance about and refusal to stop his occupation. That Lutheran congregation was a member of my church body, the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod. Excommunication doesn’t happen terribly frequently in this day and age but it’s not unheard of. I don’t know any of the specifics about his past congregation or what led to the discipline and anticipated learning more about it when it was covered by the mainstream media. Unfortunately, that hasn’t happened.

When the news broke, I had many people who know that I’m Lutheran ask how it was possible that his church had not disciplined him or otherwise encouraged him to stop performing abortions. I had hoped that there would be stories exploring Tiller’s religious beliefs and church membership and that the stories would explain the difference between the ELCA and the LCMS. There is obviously quite a difference between a church body that would discipline a practicing abortion doctor and one that would welcome him in membership.

While we did get some stories about his religious views, none of them seemed to have any clue about his religious history. Note, for instance, this piece from the Salt Lake Tribune that was written Religion News Service’s Lindsay Perna and Tiffany Stanley:

Dr. George Tiller’s murder last Sunday morning in the lobby of his Lutheran church counters the secular image of a late-term abortion provider, pinning him more as a churchgoing “martyr” than a godless murderer.

Shot and killed while passing out bulletins in the lobby of his Wichita, Kan., church as his wife sat in the choir, Tiller is already challenging popular perceptions of both abortion providers and the abortion-rights movement.

“It shows a dimension of the movement that a lot of people don’t know about,” said the Rev. Carlton Veazey, president of the Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice. “This man was castigated for what he did — but he was a faithful member of the Lutheran church and that gives a different view of him and his work.”

Veazey sees the face of Tiller as more of “a martyr in the same sense that Dr. [Martin Luther] King was.”

The story goes on to quote various people about how Tiller’s church membership changes the dynamics of the abortion debate. How can they not mention that he was previously excommunicated for his abortion work? It’s such an interesting and significant part of the story! That’s just a huge hole.

Also, the pro-life people who are quoted in the story are of the Randall Terry variety. With the typical pro-choice activists and typical pro-life activists quoted, the story remains in the muck of “bumper sticker” rhetoric. It’s disappointing. (Robin Abcarian’s piece in the Los Angeles Times dealt solely with the Tiller funeral, which means its sympathetic tone is more appropriate. It also took the ‘Tiller busts stereotypes’ approach.)

After Dr. Tiller’s murder, some pundits were confused about how people who see abortion as the unjust killing of babies could also oppose the murder of someone who killed those babies. Here was one such essay written by a fellow libertarian. I saw one letter to the editor written by clergymen in my church body that addressed just that issue:

There is an old saying: Two wrongs don’t make a right. This does not appear in the Bible but it certainly reflects a scriptural idea. This concept, that two wrongs don’t make a right, is certainly true in the case of the murder of Dr. George Tiller.

Dr. Tiller was an infamous abortionist, who was one of the very few in the country who would perform late-term abortions. The Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod is strongly pro-life, and condemns the practice of abortion. Dr. Tiller, a former member of a Missouri Synod congregation, was excommunicated by that congregation for his abortion practice. (The congregation he was currently attending is part of another Lutheran body.) We stand by that action. Our sister congregation acted properly in disciplining Dr. Tiller. Such action is always intended to lead a person to see their sins and come to repentance. Excommunication is never intended to bring that person harm.

While we condemn Dr. Tiller’s actions as an abortionist, we just as strongly condemn the actions of the person who took his life. Murder, even of a murderer, is never acceptable. God teaches us in Romans 13 and other places, that the government is in place to enforce justice. We are never to take private vengeance. This is simply not given to private individuals. Murder in any circumstances is a grievous sin. It was our utmost desire that Dr. Tiller come to repentance, and perhaps in time he may have. We do not know. Only God sees all ends. Sadly, because of this heinous act of violence, Dr. Tiller no longer has that opportunity.

I can’t help but think that some enterprising reporter should look at how the two Lutheran church bodies handled Dr. Tiller’s occupation differently. It’s disappointing to read that RNS story in light of this rather dramatic back story.

[P-Marlowe]

Oh, I see, you’re now playing games.

I'm not "playing games". I'm done with the "pro-life" movement. Just a bunch of hypocrites who don't have the courage of their convictions.

Thank you once again for opening my eyes.

[SeattleBruce]

Sitetest, I'm sure you recognize that instead of dealing with the actual issues as they emanate from this situation, P-M is (currently) resorting to playing games of exaggerations, and placing words, thoughts and motivations inside people's mouths, minds and hearts. Shame that.

[SeattleBruce]

“I'm not “playing games”. I'm done with the “pro-life” movement.”
+++++++++++++++

You most certainly are. “You've opened my eyes.” “The scales have dropped off my eyes.” Cynicism and game playing.

And what do you mean you're ‘done’ with the pro-life movement? How can you say that as a Christian? Pray tell? What about perseverance and long suffering and prayer and waiting on God - are you done with that too? Wow...

All this because you're willing to admit your hypocrisy and you think we're not? I'm a hypocrite sir, a sinner, and I'll be the first one to admit that. But I will not stand by while someone caricatures me. I will defend against that. And yes, imho, that is game playing.

[sitetest]

Dear SeattleBruce,

In that we're in the Religion Forum, I'm not permitted to say what I realize about P-Marlowe, as it goes to inner thoughts and emotions, about which one is forbidden to comment herein.

So, I'm left with pointing out that the assertions posted are bereft of support from the real world. The assertions made are neither logically internally consistent, nor supported by any actual relationship to reality.

sitetest

[P-Marlowe]

Actually Bruce, while you were instrumental in opening my eyes to the horrid crime committed by Roeder and the total legal innocence of George Tiller in this matter, credit must go at least partially to markomalley, who gave me that information about Laws and Morality from Thomas Aquinas. I realized that since abortion is legal and since the United States (The Sovereign Authority currently authorized by God to administer justice under the law) has not acknowledged the personhood of fetuses, that Mr. Tiller's abortion facility is no different from any other facility that is licensed to practice medicine in America. That same sovereign entity has instead determined that the right to obtain the medical procedure known as abortion is not merely a legislative right subject to change or amendment by the legislature, but it is ingrained in our constitution by the power of the sovereign authority of the Supreme Court of the United States.

Hence, it is clear that what Mr. Tiller was doing in his clinic was simply dispensing medicial care to needy women. Since the Sovereign Government has granted that medical procedure full constitutional status, there is simply no way, under the law, that anything that Mr. Tiller did could possibly under any circumstances be considered "Murder." As markomalley showed me in the Aquinas post, the sovereign determines what is murder in a society and if the sovereign sends a man to war and he kills another, there is no guilt. Likewise if Mr. Tiller performs a legal medical procedure, there is no guilt as he has the full approval of the United States and, unlike fetuses, he is protected by the Constitution of the United States.

I had previously made an argument that Roeder's actions could be justified under the "defense of others" defense, but as Aquinas and markomalley so aptly indicated, that defense would not apply because Tiller was legally justified in all his actions and therefore Roeder could not possibly be defending others since the ones he was attempting to defend are not considered human beings and are not afforded any constitutional rights.

So when it comes down to brass tacks, Mr. Tiller was an innocent victim of a vicious murderer.

Again my apologies to all who chose to argue with me on this thread.

You guys were right.

I was wrong.

Tiller's death was a horrid crime and Roeder deserves the death penalty (if they have it in Kansas).

Thank you all for your input.

[redgolum]

Ok, so what do you really want?

Abortion is murder, so should we put on our Punisher shirts (or perhaps the Spanish Inquisition costume from Monty Python), arm up, and start hunting abortion doctors?

Should we all leave church, grab our pitch forks, and start killing those who oppose us? You say that if one views abortion as murder, than one needs to support what Roeder did, and probably should join in.

So again, Mr Marlowe. How many millions do you feel we need to kill in order to stop abortion? For if that is the only path open to us (either embracing the killing of babies or the killing of abortion doctors), then lay out your plan of attack.

Of course, you did leave unaddressed my point about Paul. See, if you want to see some REAL bad stuff, read about what Rome liked to do for fun. Read about how the first century Christians were killed. The Romans were nothing if not inventive.

And they loved abortion. Sewers in many Roman ruins (and in parts of Rome itself) were plugged up with the bodies of dead babies that the people would flush out with the rest of the ... well you know.

And those first century Christians, I guess using the reasoning you stated here, they must have grabbed the sword and started slitting every Roman throat they came across right? I mean the writings of the Early Church call all abortionists murder (including those caused by chemical birth control, and yes they had that). So if they truly thought it was murder, then they surly must have started killing those who did it right?

Or did they follow what Paul said in the Bible. Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you. But then I guess they just didn't believe in what they said. After all, they were only tortured to death, exiled, imprisoned, raped, fed to the lions, and all of the other sick devices that age used. They didn't follow the truth of their convictions, discard what Jesus and Paul taught, and start killing their enemies. Then Paul was a fool for going to prison, and Jesus more of one for dieing on the cross. For they should have followed their convictions and just unleashed total war on those who sin.

Now, I know from some of your other posts that you DO NOT believe that. Tiller's murder was wrong, and it will delay the day when abortion is outlawed. All those who want to kill their later term babies will just hop up the highway to Omaha and get the procedure done there. And in the mean time, people now have a view of the pro life movement that we are dangerous terrorists.

[P-Marlowe]

So again, Mr Marlowe. How many millions do you feel we need to kill in order to stop abortion?

I thought you had been reading my posts. We should not kill anyone to stop abortion because that would be murder. Abortion is NOT murder because it is legal and has been sanctioned by the government and the government has been instituted as the authority to which we must obey. As markomalley showed me with his references to Aquinas, it would be immoral to break a law instituted by the sovereign in order to effect moral change. Abortion is legal and therefore anyone who practices it is without guilt before the law (unless they do it without a medical license).

You say that if one views abortion as murder, than one needs to support what Roeder did, and probably should join in.

If in fact Abortion WAS murder, then there would be no need to do that because the Civil Authorities would be the ones which would extract justice. Again, thank you mark for showing me that passage from Aquinas. It really helped me to sort thing thing out in my mind. The fact of the matter is that the state has determined that Abortion is NOT murder, so that would preclude anyone from taking the law into their own hands to prevent it. Roeder's actions meet the definition of murder which is as follows:

The unlawful killing of a human being by another human being with malice aforethought.

The Government has determined that physicians are human beings and so is Roeder. He killed Tiller, so the only question would be whether or not it was "unlawful". Since he had not moral or legal authority to take Tiller's life, it was an unlawful act and since he hunted him down and shot him, we can infer malice aforethought. Roeder should be executed as soon as the law allows.

Now lets look at Roeder's innocent victim. George Tiller was a model citizen, a church going physician (those are rare these days) and apparently he was referred to as a generous individual. He had a clinic that performed legal medical procedures for the benefit of women who came from all over the United States to seek out his expertise. He did abortions, which are legal on fetuses which have never been granted the status of human being by the courts or the congress of this country. So Roeder is a murderer and Tiller is an innocent victim.

And in the mean time, people now have a view of the pro life movement that we are dangerous terrorists.

Obviously Roeder is not a part of that movement. The pro-life movement believes, like you and I, that Tiller was an innocent victim and Roeder was a cold blooded killer.

[redgolum]

Are you having fun with this game yet?

So, what should we pro life (since you are no longer one) do?

And was Paul a fool for not preaching that it was the Christian duty to attack and kill Romans who where killing fellow Christians?

[P-Marlowe]

Are you having fun with this game yet?

You guys showed me that killing an abortionist is legally murder and that killing fetuses is legal.

You've also showed me that the Sovereign determines whether or not a crime is murder, not the opinions of some members of some minority movement.

Abortion is not murder. Killing an abortionist is murder. I understand that now.

Thanks, you've taken a great burden off my shoulders.

[P-Marlowe]

And was Paul a fool for not preaching that it was the Christian duty to attack and kill Romans who where killing fellow Christians?

Hey stop hounding me.

You were right. I was wrong.

Tiller was an innocent victim and Roeder is a cold blooded murderer.

I understand that now.

Thanks. You've been a great help.

[markomalley]

DNFTT

[P-Marlowe]

DNFTT

What, did your words come back and bite you?

You know I'm right.

[redgolum]

I see.

So both can not be wrong?

[P-Marlowe]

So both can not be wrong?

Both cannot be murder.

[redgolum]

Why not?

If I take off tonight and go shoot a random gang banger who shot someone else in the past, is that murder?

[P-Marlowe]

Tiller never committed murder. Fetuses are not protected by the constitution. Gang bangers are.

[sitetest]

Dear P-Marlowe,

I don't know why you addressed this to me:

“You guys were right.

“I was wrong.”

I know that abortion is murder, even if it isn't currently defined as murder under American law. For someone claiming the imprimatur of St. Thomas Aquinas on how one views the positive law of the state, you seem to have forgotten (or never learned) what St. Thomas had to say about unjust laws.

You seem to have abandoned the truth that abortion is murder.

I'll leave you to your new opinions.

sitetest

[SeattleBruce]

Seriously P-M?

[SeattleBruce]

“The pro-life movement believes”

You sound like one of those people railing against the Republicans, with blinders on...sarcasm, cynicism...too bad that.