Posted on 05/30/2009 5:19:18 PM PDT by bdeaner
No. That has to done by a superior in the order.
And unfortunately those superiors are just as heretical as the clergy they oversee.
You wrote:
“The do have the power to remove teaching or administering clergy do they not?”
No, no I don’t think so. The bishop can stop a priest from exercising his priestly function in a diocese, but he has little authority over a priest who doesn’t belong to his diocese. A priest at a university might belong to an order and therefore, is essentially independent of the bishop’s authority.
“He can order priest or brothers to resign their post.”
Nope. I don’t think. He can do that at the diocesan seminary of course - but that’s because he owns that. He doesn’t own the university.
“Certainly they have the power of excommunication of those defiantly teaching false doctrine.”
Yes, but that requires more than you might realize. It is actually HARD to get formally excommunicated in this day and age.
Don't I know it. Saint Louis University is a prime example.
If I learn that they ignored blatant evil for decade after decade, yes, I will leave. If I learn that they have deliberately and maliciously taught the worship of Marx instead of Christ to 2 or more generations of youth, yes, I will leave.
You wrote:
“If I learn that they ignored blatant evil for decade after decade, yes, I will leave. If I learn that they have deliberately and maliciously taught the worship of Marx instead of Christ to 2 or more generations of youth, yes, I will leave.”
You’re not making any sense. The Catholic Church never “taught the worship of Marx instead of Christ to 2 or more generations of youth”. NEVER. You are mistaking a university for the Church. How logical is that? You chose to attend a university known not to be loyal to the Church’s teaching and yet you left the Church and blame the Church? Again, how logical is that?
I am reminded of the story of Jesus braiding a whip, overturning the tables of the money changers, and cleansing the temple.
“Whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believed in me, it were better for him that millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.” Matthew 18:6
So....Youth and children by the millions have been led astray by these apostate “Catholic” educators and their superiors do NOTHING meaningful.
It will be better for these sheeple-like leaders-in-name-only for a millstone to have been tied around their necks. They **will** be held accountable before God and Jesus for the souls of millions of youth and children who have been led astray.
I would also think that Christ would hold enablers accountable as well. I for one, stopped enabling the Catholic Church decades ago. Unless I see some very meaningful action and solid reform, any participation in the Catholic Church would put me in the category of enabling evil to be thrust upon innocent children and youth.
I am a product of 10 years of elementary and high school Catholic education. I am an alumna of the CINO Villanova University. I testify before God Himself that far, far, far too many of my teachers and professors worshiped Karl Marx instead of God.
And...While worshiping Karl Marx is not a tenant of the Catholic faith, far, far, far too many Catholic leaders **knew** it was happening, and did nothing, and **are** doing NOTHING about it. (Witness this latest abomination of Obama at Notre Dame.)
As Christ reminded us it would be better for a person to have millstone tied around his neck and drowned in the sea than to hurt children ( and youth). I bet he wouldn't think too kindly about enablers of this evil either ( lay or religious).
Do something about it wintertime. Write letters, make calls, get some of the alumni together and do it. We need to fight, fight, fight...
With regards to Villanova the best I can to do is withhold money, and warn others not send their kids there.
You wrote:
“I am a product of 10 years of elementary and high school Catholic education.”
I am a product of 12 years of Catholic elementary and high school Catholic education and I never had the experiences you had.
“I am an alumna of the CINO Villanova University.”
I am an alumn of three universities, one Catholic and two secular. The difference between the Catholic one and the secular was shocking. The Catholic was orthodox.
“I testify before God Himself that far, far, far too many of my teachers and professors worshiped Karl Marx instead of God.”
So you picked a lousy university and had teachers who sucked. That doesn’t mean the Church is at fault. Again, you’re not making sense.
“And...While worshiping Karl Marx is not a tenant of the Catholic faith, far, far, far too many Catholic leaders **knew** it was happening, and did nothing, and **are** doing NOTHING about it. (Witness this latest abomination of Obama at Notre Dame.)”
Again, you’re not making sense. You can backpedal now and admit that worshipping Marx is not a tenet (please note, it’s not “tenant”), but that doesn’t change the fact that your original logic made no sense. You are also completely ignoring that fact that bishops have almost no control over universities in canon law.
“As Christ reminded us it would be better for a person to have millstone tied around his neck and drowned in the sea than to hurt children ( and youth). I bet he wouldn’t think too kindly about enablers of this evil either ( lay or religious).”
He wouldn’t. And what would He think about those who use it as an excuse to leave the Church He died to establish?
I’m not trying to pick on - believe it or not. If you grew up in the Philly area, where Villanova is located, there are plenty of parishes where the teaching of the Church are embraced and taught. And if there aren’t, you’re still better off leaving town then leaving the Church. Christ didn’t suffer so we would be comfortable and be able to rationalize our decisions. He suffered so we could be saved and He gave us the Church to carry that salvation to the ends of the earth. The Church has had members stray from the gospel before - Docetianism, Gnosticism, Donatism, Arianism, Pelagianism, Protestantism - the list seems endless. The Church always deals with it in her time and comes back stronger. That’s happening now too. You just have to have eyes to see it.
Yes, for allowing it and sometimes even promoting it, and doing nothing about it. Enablers of harm to the young deserve a millstone just as much as those doing the actual harm.
Bishops and the Pope can declare that a universities does not represent the Catholic Church and request that the university stop its false advertising. I have never seen them do that. They can remove the priests and nuns under their authority to leave the university.
Bishops also have control over the curriculum and basic philosophy of their own elementary and high schools.
My daughter was a math teacher at Catholic elementary school last year. Every one (ALL of them) of the teachers, the principal, and the priest who was the director, voted for Obama and took every opportunity possible to tell ( and show) the students how utterly **thrilled** they were that he was elected.
So...Go ahead,...I have had plenty of experience with Catholics and their logic games. Go explain these games to God.
Personally....I am not about to be an enabler.
As for your reasoning regarding Christ establishing a church:
Talk about a cult! Your argument is the same used by **cultist** to control their members! We are the true cult and if you leave you are leaving truth ( with awful consequences, of course!)
You wrote:
“Yes, for allowing it and sometimes even promoting it, and doing nothing about it. Enablers of harm to the young deserve a millstone just as much as those doing the actual harm.”
Nope. The one at fault would be the local bishop, not the Church. When a local bishop fails, it is his fault. When he does what the Church teaches he is in perfect communion with the Church - that’s the Church. I don’t confuse the two when they should not be confused. Also, didn’t you graduate from Villanova? So you paid them money for four years to mess up the minds of young people including your own? So, you’re an enabler too then by your own logic. Not only are you an enabler, but you PAID THEM TO DO IT.
“Bishops and the Pope can declare that a universities does not represent the Catholic Church and request that the university stop its false advertising.”
Yes, a difficult, painful and lobg process must come before that usually and most bishops are not anymore interested in that process than you were in taking a stand rather than being an enabler as you were.
“I have never seen them do that.”
I have.
“They can remove the priests and nuns under their authority to leave the university.”
There are few or no priests or nuns under their authority at that university. The diocese does not run universities and few diocesan priests work at Catholic universities.
“Bishops also have control over the curriculum and basic philosophy of their own elementary and high schools.”
No. In theory yes, but as I have seen in recent years even the most active and ardently Catholic bishops have little control over their schools in day to day matters. Take Archbishop Burke for instance. It is well known that he had constant battles in his original diocese - LaCrosse, Wisconsin - with school administrators, teachers, parents, etc. Today, Catholic schools are often largely independent of their bishops. They can issue decree like statements, but they do not have the staff to watch the schools.
“My daughter was a math teacher at Catholic elementary school last year. Every one (ALL of them) of the teachers, the principal, and the priest who was the director, voted for Obama and took every opportunity possible to tell ( and show) the students how utterly **thrilled** they were that he was elected.”
And so what? That’s happened all over the country and in some of the best diocese and under even some of the best bishops. All you’re doing is proving my point for me. These people are essentially no different than you. They have left the Church. They just pretend to still be Catholic.
“So...Go ahead,...I have had plenty of experience with Catholics and their logic games. Go explain these games to God.”
I don’t play any games. When you meet God, you be sure and tell Him that you left the Church you were convinced was true because you didn’t want to take up the fight. Make sure you tell Him that, okay?
“Personally....I am not about to be an enabler.”
But you were for four years at least and paid those people you believe were wrong. Brilliant.
“As for your reasoning regarding Christ establishing a church: Talk about a cult! Your argument is the same used by **cultist** to control their members! We are the true cult and if you leave you are leaving truth ( with awful consequences, of course!)”
Christ established one Church. He never established your sect. I fyou think that simple truth is proof of a cult, then you better reject the New Testament because it’s pretty plain from what is said inside it that Christ established ONE Church and that He could not have established your sect.
Does lashing out probably make you feel better though? Yeah, it solves soooooo many problems doesn’t it.
Remember you paid them money for four years while you disagreed with them. Enabler.
Why do you think that I disagreed with elementary, high school, and university educators while I attended? I was one of the “offended” that Christ was talking about when he made reference to that millstone.
Oh...Remember...One of the blazing indicators of a cult is that if you don't adhere to its principles ( or..Gasp!..) leave, your soul is lost.
You wrote:
“You are the logic expert.”
No, but logic helps.
“Why do you think that I disagreed with elementary, high school, and university educators while I attended? I was one of the “offended” that Christ was talking about when he made reference to that millstone.”
Again, that makes no sense. Why would someone - anyone - who was offended by liberalism choose a liberal university after being offended in liberal elementary and high schools? At that point would not that person be placing the millstone around his own neck?
“Oh...Remember...One of the blazing indicators of a cult is that if you don’t adhere to its principles ( or..Gasp!..) leave, your soul is lost.”
But a person who says he is offended by liberalism and who chooses to attend yet another liberal school would be violating his own principles would he not? Wouldn’t he be choosing to be lost at that point? When do you think that person becomes accountable for his actions? When does he become culpable? No matter how horrible the liberalism being taught to him, if that man chooses to pay good money to support it, and then bad mouths it afterward as if he was involuntarily imposed upon, what does that say about him and his principles? Wouldn’t that be a terrible hypocrisy?
One of the main characteristics of childhood and young adulthood is lack of discernment. It is only as an adult, with the experience and judgment that comes with adulthood, that a person realizes that they have been seriously offended.
That’s a good start wintertime. There are also groups and organizations you could join - Les Femmes, Women of Truth, Catholic Media Coalition, Inc. (CMC) - website www.catholicmediacoalition.org. Another one is - Defenders of The Faith, Inc. which has its own radio station. Mailing list totals are in the thousands. The CMC website has links to numerous publications and helpful information to enable you to learn your faith and defend it in your parish, diocese, or wherever you need to defend it.
Always in your efforts pray, pray, and pray some more. If your prayer is only a petition for change in the thinking and action of the dissident and the success of your actions – pray anyway. Remember, God already knows what you need. What you are praying for is for God to tell you what He needs of you.
We need you!
We need you!
^^^^^^^^^^^^
Sorry,...I don’t care to accept the leading role in “Waiting for Godot”.
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