Posted on 04/23/2009 6:55:35 AM PDT by Colofornian
In less than 200 years The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has grown from a handful of converts in a farm house in Fayette, N.Y., to a world-wide church of more than 13 million members with an average increase of about one million new members every three years.
While the LDS Church is the fourth largest Christian denomination in the U.S., more than half of the members live outside of the U.S. Although hundreds of thousands of new converts join the church each year, there are also members who leave the church every year.
Why do some people leave? Some leave because they’ve been offended, or because they don’t like the people in their ward, or maybe even because of unresolved sins.
Some don’t like going to church while others find fulfillment in a different religion. Some leave because church conflicts with their lifestyle or because religion doesn’t satisfy their perception of happiness. Others leave over perceived problems with LDS doctrines or early LDS history.
It might be easy to say that those who leave never had real testimonies. While this may certainly be true for some, it is likely false for all. History tells us that some members with significant spiritual experiences -- and likely real testimonies -- have left the church. The Three Witnesses, for example, saw an angel and heard the voice of God, yet all three left the church and only two came back.
Early LDS leader Sidney Rigdon was present with Joseph Smith during a vision of the Savior yet he eventually left the church as well. These and additional examples suggest that even members with real testimonies can lose their faith.
Jesus said that even the elect might be led away (Matt. 24:24) and we know from Lehi’s vision that some of those who tasted of the fruit of the love of God abandoned that fruit for the great and spacious building (1 Nephi 8: 25-28).
Among modern members who have left the church we can include Relief Society and elder’s quorum presidents, bishops and bishopric counselors, high-counselors, and even a temple president. Some "deconversions" are the result of intellectual apostasy.
According to an informal poll of several ex-Mormons, for example, a third were active members until six months or less before leaving the church and over two thirds claimed to have been active for more than 10 years before their personal apostasies.
Approximately two-thirds were born in the covenant, received their endowments, and were married in the temple. The scary thing about intellectual apostasy is that it can come on suddenly, and most members are generally unaware that they’re vulnerable to this type of apostasy until they are caught in the middle of it.
Generally those who succumb to intellectual apostasy are members who encounter information that seems to clash with how they understand scripture, revelation, prophets and prophecy, early church history or Joseph Smith. According to the ex-Mormon poll, the majority of those who left the church did so because they no longer believed that Joseph was a prophet or that the Book of Mormon was true.
Among the supposedly problematic issues that incited their rejection of the church are: Book of Mormon archaeology, the Book of Abraham, polygamy, DNA arguments and Joseph Smith’s character.
While the Internet has brought these controversies into the homes of more members than ever before, not all members see these issues as stumbling blocks. Why are some members -- members who are active and have real testimonies -- troubled by such topics while other members are not? And how can we strengthen our spiritual and intellectual defenses if we encounter such controversies?
In a series of articles, we will examine the misconceptions that can make our testimonies vulnerable to damage and intellectual apostasy and will offer suggestions on how we can strengthen our intellectual foundations against challenging issues. This can be accomplished by developing a more nuanced appreciation of the role of prophets and personal revelation, and by enlarging our understanding of the inherent limitations of science, history, and even the scriptures.
From the article: While the LDS Church is the fourth largest Christian denomination in the U.S....
To be consistent, then, would this Mormon apologist see the main fundamentalist Mormon church to be the "third largest Mormon denomination in the U.S...."??? (No? I thought not)
From the article: History tells us that some members with significant spiritual experiences -- and likely real testimonies -- have left the church... even members with real testimonies can lose their faith. ...Among modern members who have left the church we can include Relief Society and elder’s quorum presidents, bishops and bishopric counselors, high-counselors, and even a temple president. Some "deconversions" are the result of intellectual apostasy. According to an informal poll of several ex-Mormons, for example, a third were active members until six months or less before leaving the church and over two thirds claimed to have been active for more than 10 years before their personal apostasies.
Yup. The Exodus has begun. (And it's not just from "untestimonial" Mormon nominals.)
From the article: A rather frank admission: Generally those who succumb to intellectual apostasy are members who encounter information that seems to clash with how they understand scripture, revelation, prophets and prophecy, early church history or Joseph Smith. According to the ex-Mormon poll, the majority of those who left the church did so because they no longer believed that Joseph was a prophet or that the Book of Mormon was true. Among the supposedly problematic issues that incited their rejection of the church are: Book of Mormon archaeology, the Book of Abraham, polygamy, DNA arguments and Joseph Smith’s character.
Approximately two-thirds were born in the covenant, received their endowments, and were married in the temple. The scary thing about intellectual apostasy is that it can come on suddenly, and most members are generally unaware that they’re vulnerable to this type of apostasy until they are caught in the middle of it.
Oh, golly gee, another claim of the collapse of The Church.
I better run away quickly.
NOT!
OMM, this article was written by an LDS apologist. He also wrote the book, “Shaken Faith Syndrome.”
What is it about the article that claims a “collapse of the Church?” I see an article outlining troubles with LDS members holding the faith in the face of adverse facts.
Oh and BTW, the Church will not ever collapse - never has and never will. The Bible tells us so, and so far it is absolutely correct. Mormonism on the other hand will indeed fail.
ROFLOL
You should be.
Your posts are always amusing.
From the article...
Michael R. Ash is on the management team for FAIR, the Foundation for Apologetic Information and Research, www.FAIRLDS.org, and is the author of Shaken Faith Syndrome: Strengthening One’s Testimony In the Face of Criticism and Doubt (www.ShakenFaithSyndrome.com) and Of Faith and Reason: 80 Evidences Supporting the Prophet Joseph Smith (www.OfFaithandReason.com). E-mail: mike@shakenfaithsyndrome.com.
_______________________________________________
Nuff said...
Inman ping part 1
Why do some people leave? Some leave because they’ve been offended, or because they don’t like the people in their ward, or maybe even because of unresolved sins.
Some don’t like going to church while others find fulfillment in a different religion. Some leave because church conflicts with their lifestyle or because religion doesn’t satisfy their perception of happiness. Others leave over perceived problems with LDS doctrines or early LDS history.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Most, however, leave because the have found out that the “perceived” problems are real and cannot be reconciled.
I get SO tired of being accused of leaving because I either “wanted to sin” or “it was too hard” or “someone offended” me.
I left because I found out it was a lie, that Joseph Smith was a false prophet, the BOM could not possibly be true. IOW, I “thought myself out of the Church”.
Fortunately, there were Christians waiting for me who showed me that Christianity is NOT about RELIGION, it is about a RELATIONSHIP with Jesus Christ.
It is balanced by the data found on LDS.ORG that claims that the Organization is at 13,000,000 and growing at 1,000,000 every 3 years...
[There is] “no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...no man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God”
--Joseph Fielding Smith (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.190).
“This [the LDS] Church...is the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth”
--Joseph Smith (Doctrine and Covenants 1:30).
“This is not just another Church. This is not just one of a family of Christian churches. This is the Church and kingdom of God, the only true Church upon the face of the earth...”
--President Ezra Taft Benson(Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p.164-165).
“If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation. There is no salvation outside The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints”
--Bruce McConkie (Mormon Doctrine, p.670).
“This Church is the ensign on the mountain spoken of by the Old Testament prophets. It is the way, the truth, and the life”
--Marion Romney (LDS First Presidency) (Conference Report, April, 1961, pg. 119).
Joseph Smith stated that God told him: "they [other churches] were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt" (from Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith-History 1:19).Joseph Smith continues: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith-History 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses, vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses, 18:172).President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses, 10:127).James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p.196).
I sincerely doubt Mormonism will fall. While they certainly cannot count on conversions from other Christian faiths, they do an amazing job bringing in non-believers to Christianity. Eventually, some of those non-believers move on to other Christian groups as their relationship with God grows, but many find a permanent home in Mormonism. Some of their “born Mormon” members also move on... resulting in a net gain of membership over time.
Do not underestimate the role the Mormon church plays in reaching out to the non-believer. God has a purpose for all the real churches including the more radical groups like Jehovah’s Witnesses, Assembly of God, Four Square and FLDS.
Very few ex-mormons become Christian. Most become non-believers either agnostic or athiest. I am ex-mormon, only one of a few here on FR who have gone on to become Christian. Mormonism is not Christian, it does a good job of converting fringe Christians who know little of Jesus Christ - it does an even poorer job of retaining those converts. Their only true growth is through their phenomenal birthrate. Most of the converts from other Christian religions (mainly fringe Catholics) from third world countries who join that sect in order to get closer to America, fall away quickly when they find out that Mormonism won’t actually help them. Hopefully many return to their Church of birth more knowledgeable and wary of false doctrine. And Christ WILL prevail against the false church, false Prophets and false doctrine of Mormonism. As I said, the Bible tells me so.
I have met several folks, in my small world, who have experimented with the Mormon church then gone on to other Christian faiths. They are pretty solid in their new faiths, courtesy of the Mormon church intervals.
Again, I believe the Mormon church plays a valuable role in bringing in non-believers to the Christian faith. God uses the Mormon church for his own purposes. I cannot say the same for Muslimism which prevents its converts from carrying on their spiritual journey towards truth outside of Islam.
Well there you have it. We seem to be having a discussion about two separate issues. You are talking about people who “experiment” with Mormonism. I am talking about people who fall for the lies of Mormonism or are born into it and know nothing else.
It is a tool of the devil, but God can use the evil things of this world for His purposes, on that we agree.
TR, the Mormon Church does not bring non-believers to Christianity. But they do bring nominal Christians out of Christianity and into paganism, because at its core Mormonism is paganism.
Most Mormon converts come out of Christian Churches and never return. Now if you want to say that the Mormon Church serves God's purpose, then it is not to bring people to Christianity, but to separate the wheat from the tares.
I was born a 5th generation Mormon. I had a strong testimony to the truth of the Book of Mormon and the role of Joseph Smith as a true prophet of God. But when the veil was lifted and I saw the fraud that was Mormonism and I saw Joseph Smith for the snake-oil salesman that he was, then I stopped believing in God altogether. I was so convinced that Mormonism was the one true church that when I discovered it was a fraud, I concluded that all churches were frauds.
It was only by the grace of God, that I found Christ (the real one, not the plastic imitation of the LDS Church). The Mormon Church led me away from Christianity. It was God and God alone who led me to Christ.
If the goal is to reach out to the "non-believer", why are so many mormon missionaries knocking on the doors of believing Christians and telling them that their beliefs are all wrong and the only way to salvation is by becoming mormon?
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