Complete title: THE FOUR LAST THINGS ---- DEATH, JUDGMENT, HELL and HEAVEN
Posted on 04/17/2009 6:54:32 AM PDT by GonzoII
PAY heed, O reader, to what is now coming, and do not imagine that it concerns thee not. Thou wilt most assuredly witness it all one day with thy bodily eyes, and all will be a thousand times more terrible than my pen can depict it.
When Christ, in His chariot of fire, has reached Mount Olivet, He will pause in the air, at such a height that He can be clearly seen by all men, until the Angels have prepared the throne of judgment.
The prophet Daniel thus portrays the scene: "I beheld till thrones were placed, and the Ancient of days sat ; His garment was white as snow and the hair of His head like clean wool; His throne like flames of fire, the wheels of it like a burning fire. A swift stream of fire issued forth from before Him; thousands of thousands ministered to Him, and ten times a hundred thousand stood before Him: the judgment sat and the books were opened" (Dan. vii. 9, 10).
But Christ will not sit in judgment alone; the twelve Apostles will be with Him, according to the promise He gave them: "Amen I say to you, that you who have followed Me, in the regeneration, when the Son of man shall sit on the seat of His majesty, you also shall sit on twelve seats judging the twelve tribes of Israel" (Matt. xix. 28).
Who can give any idea of the magnificence of Christ s throne? It beggars all description.
We read that King Solomon caused a wonderfully beautiful throne to be constructed out of ivory, richly adorned with gold and precious stones. This throne was so magnificent that the inspired writer says of it that in no kingdom of the world had any such work been made. If the judgment-seat of King Solomon was composed of such costly material and fashioned so skilfully, what will be the splendour of the judgment-seat of the King of kings, on which He will sit in His majesty to judge the whole world!
Our Lord speaks of this judgment-seat as a throne of great splendour, when He says: "When the Son of man shall come in His majesty, and all the Angels with Him, then shall He sit upon the seat of His majesty" (Matt. xxv. 31).
Some idea of what the appearance of this throne will be may be gathered from the words which have just been quoted from the prophet Daniel, and also this description given by St. John: "There was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald. . . . And from the throne proceeded lightnings, and voices, and thunders; and there were seven lamps burning before the throne" (Apoc. iv. 3-5).
Such are the images whereby Holy Scripture portrays the judgment-seat of Christ. Who of all mankind can venture to raise his eyes to this fiery throne? Will it not be more dazzlingly bright than the lightnings and fiery flashes of a tempest?
The Divine Judge will seat Himself upon this throne and His grave countenance will be visible to men and Angels. All created beings will tremble with awestruck reverence. St. John declares this in the Apocalypse: "I saw a great white throne, and One sitting upon it, from whose face the earth and Heaven fled away, and there was no place found for them" (Apoc. xx. 11). In these words the prophet of the New Testament appears to indicate that the Heavens and the earth will not be able to bear to meet the eye of their Judge; that all rational beings, both Angels and men, will quake at the sight of His stern countenance.
That the Angels also will fear and tremble, is asserted by St. Augustine, in the following passage from his writings: "When Our Lord says that the powers of Heaven shall be moved, He alludes to the Angels; for so terrible will the judgment be, that the Angels will not be exempt from fear; they too will tremble and be afraid. For just as when a judge sits in judgment his grave countenance not only strikes terror into the culprits before him, but over-awes the officials standing around, so when all mankind are brought to judgment the celestial ministers will share the universal horror and alarm."
St. John Chrysostom corroborates this statement, when he says: "Every one will then be filled with astonishment, with apprehension, with terror, for even the Angels will be sore afraid."
Many other Fathers of the Church and commentators upon Holy Scripture express a similar opinion.
Now if, according to the opinion of learned and holy men even the Angels will not be without fear in the Day of Judgment, how much greater cause will the Saints have to fear, since they must stand before Christ's tribunal, and give a strict account of all their actions. Yes, it is unmistakably evident, from what St. John says in the Apocalypse, that the blessed Saints are struck with awe and trembling. He describes how Christ appeared to him, and the effect it had upon him. " When I had seen Him, I fell at His feet as dead. And He laid His right hand upon me, saying, Fear not. I am the First and the Last." If the beloved Apostle was so awestruck at the sight of his dear Master and Lord, who had come to console and not to judge him, that he fell at His feet as if dead, and could not summon up courage to rise to his feet until Christ spoke to him in the kindest and most comforting manner, can it be supposed that the Saints will not be terrified on the Day of Judgment, when they behold Christ in His awful majesty and are called upon to give to Him an account of their whole life? And, O poor sinner, how will it then fare with thee, and with all the reprobate, if even the Angels and Saints tremble at the coming of the Judge? Words cannot express the terror and dismay of evil spirits and unrepentant sinners, when they shall behold their Divine Judge on the throne of His majesty, and know that He will rigorously judge and condemn them to Hell for all eternity.
In order to give some idea of the terrible dread and alarm of the fallen Angels and of unhappy sinners, let us hear what Holy Scripture says concerning the appalling exterior of the Judge and the greatness of His anger, in the first chapter of the Apocalypse, where St. John tells us: "I saw the Son of man clothed in a garment down to the feet and girt about the breast with a golden girdle. His head and His hairs were white as white wool and as snow, and His eyes were as a flame of fire, and His feet like unto fine brass, as in a burning furnace. And His voice as the sound of many waters. And from His mouth came out a sharp two-edged sword, and His face was as the sun shineth in His power. Upon His head were many diadems, and He was clothed with a garment sprinkled with blood. He treadeth the wine-press of the fierceness of the wrath of God the almighty, and He hath on His garment and His thigh written: King of kings and Lord of lords."
Meditate upon these wondrous words, O Christian, and picture to thyself thy future Judge in vivid colors. How could His majestic appearance be described more forcibly than in the words we have just quoted?
What must be the splendour of that countenance which is said to shine as the sun at its meridian! what must be the brilliance of those eyes which glow with holy fervour like flames of fire! what the force of that voice which has the sound of a volume of waters! what must be the keenness of that tongue which cuts like a two-edged sword! what a glorious head that must be which is adorned with many costly diadems! How terrible that garment must be to look upon which is sprinkled with blood ! And what the dignity of that regal name: The King of kings and Lord of lords! How frightened we all shall be, what fear and woe will overtake us when our Judge looks upon us! And imagine what the feelings of the damned will be, when they behold the Judge of all their wicked deeds; how they will quail and quake beneath His gaze in the hour of His just wrath!
We shall perhaps form a better conception of what the wrath of God is, if we listen to what the prophet Isaias says concerning it: "Behold the name of the Lord cometh from afar, His wrath burneth, and is heavy to bear; His lips are filled with indignation, and His tongue as a devouring fire; His breath as a torrent overflowing even to the midst of the neck, to destroy the nations into nothing" (Is. xxx. 27, 28).
These are of a truth terrible words. Do they not clearly indicate with what great wrath Christ will manifest Himself to the world ? Well may all unhappy sinners be overwhelmed with terror and dismay and anguish; well may they cry to the mountains to fall on them and the hills to cover them.
Now when the Judge is seated upon the throne of His majesty, all who are assembled in the valley of Josaphat, Angels and devils, the redeemed and the lost, will all have to adore Christ, as St. Paul says: "We shall all stand before the judgment-seat of Christ. For it is written: As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to Me, and every tongue shall confess to God" (Rom. xiv. 10, 11).
How solemn and how sublime a scene will then be enacted, O my God, when all the millions and thousands of millions of Angels, together with the blessed, in visible form will prostrate themselves upon the ground, and the evil spirits with their unhappy victims, and all the damned, will be forced against their will to adore Christ and acknowledge Him as their God and Judge ! These wretched creatures will fall on their knees, and bend their heads down to the earth, not daring to raise their eyes, lest they should encounter the angry glance of their Judge. They will lament and bewail, filled with unutterable consternation and dismay. Gladly would they have the earth open and swallow them up, nay, they would, if it were possible, cast themselves down into a bottomless abyss rather than suffer such humiliation.
Pause and consider, O sinner, what thy feelings would be if thou wert amid the number of these lost souls; thou wouldst be overwhelmed with sorrow and distress.
St. Vincent relates that a young man of dissolute life once dreamed that he was arraigned before the judgment-seat of God, and required to give an account of his ill-spent life. His terror was so great that it turned his hair perfectly white. If the terrors of the Last Judgment experienced only in a dream were sufficient to turn the colour of that young man s hair, what, thinkest thou, will be the effect they will produce on thee and on me, when we are present, not in a dream, but in reality, at the Last Judgment, and with our bodily eyes we behold our Judge in all His holy indignation?
O most just Judge, look down, I beseech Thee, from Thy throne in Heaven upon me, a poor sinner, and for the sake of Thine infinite compassion be merciful to me in the day of final judgment. I know that I shall not be able to stand in that dread day, but by Thy just sentence I shall be condemned to eternal damnation. Yet I know also that if a sinner implores mercy of Thee in the time of grace, it will not be denied him. Therefore I entreat Thee with deep humility and contrition, through Thy bitter Passion, that Thou wouldst pardon my sins and pass a lenient sentence upon me in the Day of Judgment. Amen.
www.catholictradition.org/Classics/4last-things2g.htm
Complete title: THE FOUR LAST THINGS ---- DEATH, JUDGMENT, HELL and HEAVEN
I was grabbing my scapular as I was reading this and told myself that on this day, I shall hide behind our Lady’s mantle.
Well I’m not afraid. I’m sure I will be overcome with awe, love, amazement, a thousand emotions. Maybe I’ll dance, maybe I’ll sing, maybe I’ll fall to the ground in worship. But He has forgiven me and my sins are as far away from Him as the east is from the west, so I don’t need to fear. I belong to Him!
Doesn't it strike you odd that your church claims all this Revelation stuff is allegorical but yet it tries to pull out verses amongst the context and tell you they are literal???
Now if, according to the opinion of learned and holy men even the Angels will not be without fear in the Day of Judgment, how much greater cause will the Saints have to fear, since they must stand before Christ's tribunal, and give a strict account of all their actions.
1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
The works get burned, NOT the man...If the works don't burn up, we get a reward...If the works do burn up, we will lose rewards, but we Christians will still be saved...
1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
What, we should fear the judgement of God when we have the Spirit of God living inside us???
How frightened we all shall be, what fear and woe will overtake us when our Judge looks upon us!
Rom 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
We Christians have been adopted...We do not fear condemnation to Hell...
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
We are Christ's sheep...He knows our names...
Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
We Christians have eternal life...RIGHT NOW...Or, Jesus was a liar...
Now when the Judge is seated upon the throne of His majesty, all who are assembled in the valley of Josaphat, Angels and devils, the redeemed and the lost, will all have to adore Christ, as St. Paul says: "We shall all stand before the judgment-seat of Christ. For it is written: As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to Me, and every tongue shall confess to God" (Rom. xiv. 10, 11).
We WILL NOT be standing in the valley of Jehosaphat...Those that stand there will be killed...Every one of them...
The valley of Jehosephat could not possibly be the Great White Throne Judgement...
Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
At THIS judgement, the earth and heaven are gone...The valley of Jehosephat is GONE...
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God;
And what are they standing on??? NOTHING...There's nothing under their feet...
Therefore I entreat Thee with deep humility and contrition, through Thy bitter Passion, that Thou wouldst pardon my sins and pass a lenient sentence upon me in the Day of Judgment. Amen.
A lenient sentence??? We Christians are headed home to claim our mansions...There won't be any sentence...There will be celebration...
Your church has twisted the scripture (which it doesn't believe anyway) and pulled out verses here and there to keep you in bondage of fear...Bondage to your religion...We Christians have nothing to fear...
For God's sake, and your own, Study the Scriptures...
2Ti 2:15 Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
Amen! You get it too! I can hardly wait for these times!
Here’s a bit of info for you. A “chariot of fire” is only mentioned once in the bible, and it doesn’t have anything to do with end times. In fact, there is only one place I can find that mentions ANYTHING about Jesus riding a chariot and it is a poetic figure of speech.
So what happens to all the people who think the sign is a cross and the Lord Jesus will be an angry God riding a chariot of fire to the place where he will chastize and shame his believers? First of course pausing for effect and scowling at us while we cower and try to hide. While the angels thrust shrouds and iron gloves in our faces to torment us with guilt.
Mary's last recorded words were “Whatever He says to you, do it” (John 2:3-5, NASB)I think that is excellent advice and so I am trying to learn all I can about what Jesus said. And since I have direct access to His words, that's the place I go.
If you need to hide, there will be nothing mighty enough to hide behind.
If you belong to Him you have nothing to fear.
But here's a thing that still fascinates me: There seem to be some among you (as there no doubt are on our side, mutatis mutandis) who just cannot resist the opportunity to spill some bile on the topic of how much they hate our Church -- or what usually turns out to be a fabricated and false construction of what we actually teach.
This leaves me with 2 questions. (1)Just what is the fascination? and (2)Do these people REALLY think that the best way to encourage us to re-think our position is to start by accusing us of teaching what we do not teach (or, to give as much as I can, of teaching what we do not realize we are teaching) and to use vile, contemptuous, and mocking language to describe our group?
You see, I'm working on understanding "all manner of evil" being spoken about me falsely on IHS's account as an instance of blessedness, certainly not an invitation to rethink my relationship with my Lord. So, when the dust settles, I'm left wondering, what was THAT about?
The religion you chose to follow makes the claim that IT is the one true church, the 'real' body of Christ...
Your religion puts less stock in the written words of God than it does the opinions of sinful men whom your church claims are the fathers of your religion...
And that doesn't bother me...Even when you claim a sinful man is the Holy Father...
But what does bother me is when you guys torture the Scripture on a public forum and claim God gave your religion the authority to pervert the Scripture from it's plain meaning...
It's like you guys claiming your religion came up with a council that decided what the Canon of Scripture was 350 years or so after it was penned...But at the same time, you guys claim you have Apostolic succession...
Now for those of us who can and do read the Scriptures, God left this bit of information:
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
So tell me then...If your popes and priests have Apostolic succession, why didn't your Apostolic pope at the time of this council already know what the Canon of the bible was...God says the Holy Spirit would put into his memory the events of the Scripture...Why did you guys go 350 years without knowing what was Scripture and what wasn't with all of the Holy Spirit informed Apostolic popes you claim to have had over the years???
Your church is NOT the church Jesus founded...Christians are added to Jesus' church AFTER they are saved...They don't join Jesus' church to get saved...And when you post your stuff on a public forum, I'll get out the Sword of the Lord and do battle...
***The religion you chose to follow makes the claim that IT is the one true church, the ‘real’ body of Christ...***
Following from Scripture through the Church Fathers, check, check, check. Yup, it’s true.
***Your religion puts less stock in the written words of God than it does the opinions of sinful men whom your church claims are the fathers of your religion...***
Following from Scripture through the Church Fathers, Apostolic authority, check. Your claim is actually not true as posted; let’s say that the Church chose Scripture in agreement with the Nicene Creed. The Church did, not any man alone, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit (again Scripturally and historically correct).
***But what does bother me is when you guys torture the Scripture on a public forum and claim God gave your religion the authority to pervert the Scripture from it’s plain meaning...***
The Church was given authority to choose Scripture and it was given authority to intepret it; like the eunuch, people are lost, St. Paul numerous times taught that Church authority and traditions are what was to be passed on. Let us examine those teachings. 2 Tim 1:
13
Take as your norm the sound words that you heard from me, in the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus.
14
Guard this rich trust with the help of the holy Spirit that dwells within us.
Timothy is instructed to learn from Paul, who is a bishop of the Church.
And further, we have 2 Tim 2:
1
1 So you, my child, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus.
2
And what you heard from me through many witnesses entrust to faithful people who will have the ability to teach others as well.
Timothy is instructed to pass on the traditions of his bishop (Paul) to others who will then teach others those traditions.
Further, Paul writes in 2 Thess 2:
15
Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours. 8
Paul comes right out and says it. Iscool, Paul directly contradicts your position and supports ours.
The whole of Acts 15 supports the oral teachings and tradition of the Church. Those who want to return to some romantic notion of ‘the early church’ have no idea of what they are talking about since the Church was entirely oral tradition until much later, when the Canon of Scripture had been set down.
1 Tim 4:
11
5 Command and teach these things.
Command and teach what? What Paul had taught him.
1 Tim 6:
20
8 O Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to you. Avoid profane babbling and the absurdities of so-called knowledge.
21
By professing it, some people have deviated from the faith. Grace be with all of you.
What has been entrusted? The knowledge of the Church. What is the babbling? The deviation from the Church.
“Man does not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God” (Mt 4:4).
St. Paul was very explicit in telling the Thessalonians to hold fast to the traditions they had received from him, whether written or oral, and in telling Timothy that he was to guard the truth entrusted to him by the Holy Spirit, to be strong in the Grace of Christ and to entrust to faithful men what he, Timothy, had heard him, Paul, preach so that they would be able to teach others also. This is what the Church holds, what the Church believes, what she teaches.
And no individual church of men can possibly be as correct as the Church of Jesus Christ created by Christ, commissioned by the Holy Spirit and handed down through the Fathers in Apostolic succession to the Church militant we have today.
What a curious tag line you have.
***What a curious tag line you have.***
Many that are unaware of the early Church have made such comments. It is a quote from St. Augustine in a rebuttal to the heretics of his time.
I can agree with that one...
( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
I personally believe in the Gospel while not believing in any aurhority of, or being influenced by the Catholic religion...
That must be quite an enigma for those people...
1 Tim 6: 20
O Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to you. Avoid profane babbling and the absurdities of so-called knowledge.
21
By professing it, some people have deviated from the faith. Grace be with all of you.
What has been entrusted? The knowledge of the Church.
What is the babbling? The deviation from the Church.
You need to spend more time reading that chapter...The church was not entrusted to Timothy...It was the teaching of Jesus that was entrusted to Timothy...The WORDS of Jesus were entrusted to Timothy...The written words of Paul the Apostle were entrusted to Timothy...
The whole of Acts 15 supports the oral teachings and tradition of the Church. Those who want to return to some romantic notion of ‘the early church’ have no idea of what they are talking about since the Church was entirely oral tradition until much later, when the Canon of Scripture had been set down.
You couldn't be more wrong...
Well you could be right about YOUR church...The Christian church however had the scriptures from the get-go, according to God...
Col 4:16 And when this epistle is read among you, cause that it be read also in the church of the Laodiceans; and that ye likewise read the epistle from Laodicea.
1Th 5:27 I charge you by the Lord that this epistle be read unto all the holy brethren.
How do you keep posting this vain babbling when the Scripture hits you up side the head every time you open your mouth???
The written epistles were read in the churches and Peter acknowledged them as SCRIPTURE...
St. Paul was very explicit in telling the Thessalonians to hold fast to the traditions they had received from him, whether written or oral,
So of course you are suggesting that the congregations could chose to believe what the apostles had written in epistles OR, they could chose to go with someones's oral tradition INSTEAD...You guys claim they are NOT the same thing...
And no individual church of men can possibly be as correct as the Church of Jesus Christ created by Christ, commissioned by the Holy Spirit and handed down through the Fathers in Apostolic succession to the Church militant we have today.
Maybe you didn't grasp the question...The Holy Spirit put into the Apostles the remembrance of the things Jesus did and said so that they would be able to write thoses events down 'accurately' when they were able...
So how is it that with all of your popes having 'apostolic succession', a council was needed to tell your so-called apostolic popes what God wanted in the completed scriptures??? Let's hear it...Cat got your tongue???
What I was wondering about was how anyone could possibly view that sort of thing as evangelical or pastoral. Yes, if you could win an argument, that would make you look good, I suppose. And if looking good matters all that much, I suppose that's a good thing. I guess I have accepted that I look like a jerk, because I am a jerk, who is loved by God because of God's free choice and not because of anything resembling merit on my part.
I guess I'll leave to the risen Lord the question of why how terribly wrong I am is so important to some people. Some put their faith in horses, some in chariots, and some even put their faith in Sola Scriptura. But we will trust in the risen Lord, who is our help and our shield.
I agree whole heartedly...But you are missing my position or are just ignoring it...
You may trust in the risen Lord but you know as well as I do that your church makes the claim to trust in your church...I've seen it stated so many times that it's impossible to ignore...
Sometimes your Protestant upbringing shines thru...
***I personally believe in the Gospel while not believing in any aurhority of, or being influenced by the Catholic religion...***
This cannot be entirely true, since the Church selected the Gospel, preserved it, and gave it to the world. You say the Gospel; how do you know that Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are correct? How do you know that the Gospel of Thomas or Peter or Judas are not correct? Outside of the Church, where are your proofs?
Therefore your statement cannot stand as it reads.
***That must be quite an enigma for those people...***
I consider St. Augustine a great Father of the Church and Doctor of the Church and a far greater theologian and Christian than one who has founded his own church.
***Your post reads like the first one on this thread...
1 Tim 6: 20
O Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to you. Avoid profane babbling and the absurdities of so-called knowledge.
21
By professing it, some people have deviated from the faith. Grace be with all of you.
What has been entrusted? The knowledge of the Church.
What is the babbling? The deviation from the Church.
You need to spend more time reading that chapter...The church was not entrusted to Timothy***
The teachings of the Church were.
***It was the teaching of Jesus that was entrusted to Timothy...The WORDS of Jesus were entrusted to Timothy...The written words of Paul the Apostle were entrusted to Timothy...***
This is where the non Catholic argument all falls down. The teachings of Jesus were not directly given to Timothy, since Timothy never met Jesus (as far as we know). The teachings of Paul - oral teachings since Timothy was a disciple and pupil of Paul - were passed on to Timothy. The letters to Timothy do not constitute the length nor the breadth of Paul’s instruction to Timothy and to intimate that it does is silly on the surface and idiotic to the interior.
***The whole of Acts 15 supports the oral teachings and tradition of the Church. Those who want to return to some romantic notion of ‘the early church’ have no idea of what they are talking about since the Church was entirely oral tradition until much later, when the Canon of Scripture had been set down.
You couldn’t be more wrong...
Well you could be right about YOUR church...The Christian church however had the scriptures from the get-go, according to God...***
Knock, knock; reality calling. What NT scriptures did the Church have and at what time? You give the letters to Thessalonians and Colossians as evidence. When were these written and even more important, when were they recognized as Scripture and when and where and how were they copied out and distributed. Anti Catholics don’t get that there were NO emails or other forms of mass distribution of information. Works were copied out by hand and the Church was far flung - journeys took weeks or months. The Church was entirely oral for a whole generation after Christ and only gradually when the people realized that Christ was not coming back immediately that they started writing things down.
***St. Paul was very explicit in telling the Thessalonians to hold fast to the traditions they had received from him, whether written or oral,
So of course you are suggesting that the congregations could chose to believe what the apostles had written in epistles OR, they could chose to go with someones’s oral tradition INSTEAD...You guys claim they are NOT the same thing...***
Knock, knock. Reality calling. Do you have clue one as to the timelines and teachings of the early Church? Where on earth did you come up with this statement?
***Maybe you didn’t grasp the question...The Holy Spirit put into the Apostles the remembrance of the things Jesus did and said so that they would be able to write thoses events down ‘accurately’ when they were able...***
When they were able? The 4 Gospels weren’t written down for 30 years after Christ. Which of the Apostles wrote Scripture? Come on now, which ones and what did they write? Which of the 4 Gospel writers actually met Christ?
***So how is it that with all of your popes having ‘apostolic succession’, a council was needed to tell your so-called apostolic popes what God wanted in the completed scriptures??? Let’s hear it...Cat got your tongue???***
I can hardly reply to you during the writing of your post. I realize from your postings that you and reality only occasionally coincide, but, I cannot reply to you in your post during the composition of that post.
Now, let us examine your question. In it you say that since the Popes are in Apostolic Succession, they should be the mouthpiece of God, right? They are not; the first Pope (Peter) was a fallible man and so have all the rest of them been. But Jesus gave His protection and the guidance of the Holy Spirit to the Church and so the Patristic Church is the repository of the Faith, not any one man.
By the way, how is your Church of Iscool (population one) getting on?
***Sometimes your Protestant upbringing shines thru...***
Maybe he just walked under a pigeon nest.
Ha...Your boat don't float...
Like Jesus said, if your second pope knew what the scripture was, your 80th pope knows as well...All has to do with Apostolic succession...So the fact that you had to have a council of Catholics determine what the scripture was, means you have no Apostolic succession...
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
What you are saying goes against what the Holy Spirit says...
The scriptures are those words and acts that Jesus said and did which the Holy Spirit put into remembrance of the Apostles that they could accurately write the scriptures...
And it was commanded that these scriptures be read in the churches...
Those people knew exactly what the scriptures were...And here comes your group 350 years later creating it's own group of scrptures and claiming them for 'real'...
The gospel was preached for 350 years...Do you realize how long that is??? And your church says it's not real...
I realize I won't change your mind, but I want the lurkers to see the ridiculous fanstasy your religion has contrived...And worse yet, honest people fall for it...
It's a fact that your religion created it's own bible 350 years after Jesus was crucified and the actual gospels had been in circulation for those 350 years...But Jesus already revealed your tricks long before you put them into practice...
The salvation that I own and the scriptures I read have zero connection with your religion...
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