The religion you chose to follow makes the claim that IT is the one true church, the 'real' body of Christ...
Your religion puts less stock in the written words of God than it does the opinions of sinful men whom your church claims are the fathers of your religion...
And that doesn't bother me...Even when you claim a sinful man is the Holy Father...
But what does bother me is when you guys torture the Scripture on a public forum and claim God gave your religion the authority to pervert the Scripture from it's plain meaning...
It's like you guys claiming your religion came up with a council that decided what the Canon of Scripture was 350 years or so after it was penned...But at the same time, you guys claim you have Apostolic succession...
Now for those of us who can and do read the Scriptures, God left this bit of information:
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
So tell me then...If your popes and priests have Apostolic succession, why didn't your Apostolic pope at the time of this council already know what the Canon of the bible was...God says the Holy Spirit would put into his memory the events of the Scripture...Why did you guys go 350 years without knowing what was Scripture and what wasn't with all of the Holy Spirit informed Apostolic popes you claim to have had over the years???
Your church is NOT the church Jesus founded...Christians are added to Jesus' church AFTER they are saved...They don't join Jesus' church to get saved...And when you post your stuff on a public forum, I'll get out the Sword of the Lord and do battle...
***The religion you chose to follow makes the claim that IT is the one true church, the ‘real’ body of Christ...***
Following from Scripture through the Church Fathers, check, check, check. Yup, it’s true.
***Your religion puts less stock in the written words of God than it does the opinions of sinful men whom your church claims are the fathers of your religion...***
Following from Scripture through the Church Fathers, Apostolic authority, check. Your claim is actually not true as posted; let’s say that the Church chose Scripture in agreement with the Nicene Creed. The Church did, not any man alone, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit (again Scripturally and historically correct).
***But what does bother me is when you guys torture the Scripture on a public forum and claim God gave your religion the authority to pervert the Scripture from it’s plain meaning...***
The Church was given authority to choose Scripture and it was given authority to intepret it; like the eunuch, people are lost, St. Paul numerous times taught that Church authority and traditions are what was to be passed on. Let us examine those teachings. 2 Tim 1:
13
Take as your norm the sound words that you heard from me, in the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus.
14
Guard this rich trust with the help of the holy Spirit that dwells within us.
Timothy is instructed to learn from Paul, who is a bishop of the Church.
And further, we have 2 Tim 2:
1
1 So you, my child, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus.
2
And what you heard from me through many witnesses entrust to faithful people who will have the ability to teach others as well.
Timothy is instructed to pass on the traditions of his bishop (Paul) to others who will then teach others those traditions.
Further, Paul writes in 2 Thess 2:
15
Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours. 8
Paul comes right out and says it. Iscool, Paul directly contradicts your position and supports ours.
The whole of Acts 15 supports the oral teachings and tradition of the Church. Those who want to return to some romantic notion of ‘the early church’ have no idea of what they are talking about since the Church was entirely oral tradition until much later, when the Canon of Scripture had been set down.
1 Tim 4:
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5 Command and teach these things.
Command and teach what? What Paul had taught him.
1 Tim 6:
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8 O Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to you. Avoid profane babbling and the absurdities of so-called knowledge.
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By professing it, some people have deviated from the faith. Grace be with all of you.
What has been entrusted? The knowledge of the Church. What is the babbling? The deviation from the Church.
“Man does not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God” (Mt 4:4).
St. Paul was very explicit in telling the Thessalonians to hold fast to the traditions they had received from him, whether written or oral, and in telling Timothy that he was to guard the truth entrusted to him by the Holy Spirit, to be strong in the Grace of Christ and to entrust to faithful men what he, Timothy, had heard him, Paul, preach so that they would be able to teach others also. This is what the Church holds, what the Church believes, what she teaches.
And no individual church of men can possibly be as correct as the Church of Jesus Christ created by Christ, commissioned by the Holy Spirit and handed down through the Fathers in Apostolic succession to the Church militant we have today.
What I was wondering about was how anyone could possibly view that sort of thing as evangelical or pastoral. Yes, if you could win an argument, that would make you look good, I suppose. And if looking good matters all that much, I suppose that's a good thing. I guess I have accepted that I look like a jerk, because I am a jerk, who is loved by God because of God's free choice and not because of anything resembling merit on my part.
I guess I'll leave to the risen Lord the question of why how terribly wrong I am is so important to some people. Some put their faith in horses, some in chariots, and some even put their faith in Sola Scriptura. But we will trust in the risen Lord, who is our help and our shield.