Posted on 04/04/2009 3:29:51 PM PDT by Alex Murphy
This is a distressing new Gallup poll. It shows that churchgoing Catholics are far more likely to approve of moral behavior (sex between unmarried people, homosexuality, etc.) that their church deems immoral than are churchgoing Protestants.
This is a conundrum to me, one I thought about a lot when I was a Catholic, and troubled over. Why is it that Catholics have a Pope and a Magisterium -- a clear teaching authority -- as well as a complex, coherent and profoundly intellectual moral theology ... and yet these things, which ought to give it a tremendous advantage in maintaining the obedience of its flock, avail the Catholic Church little? It shouldn't be that way, logically, but it is in practice.
Lee Podles, an orthodox Catholic, has some thoughts.
[I wish I didn't have to say this, but I do: this is not an anti-Catholic post, but rather intended to spark discussion on various reasons why this poll found the things it did. As someone who would like to raise my children to believe in what my faith teaches, I'd like to know what works, and what doesn't. Anybody who tries to derail the thread by making specious claims of anti-Catholicism will find their posts unpublished. So don't even start.]
I agree. Many so called Christians would rather follow the world than follow Christ.
Exactly. I saw a bumper sticker today that said "Pope Benedict XVI says fight for innocent life." I was like, "Who cares what the pope says? GOD says to fight for innocent life."
This is about Catholics who are ignoring “Rome’s word”.
Freegards
For one, it’s a view and perception of sin...The Catholic church is far more liberal than Protestant churches when it condemns the totality of sinful practices...
Gambling is encouraged in the Catholic church...Not so in many Protestant churches...Drinking alcohol is encouraged in the Catholic church...The Protestants to a degree agree with God on this issues that alcohol creates all sorts of problems...
One of which is we all know that it’s far easier to talk a girl out of her clothes when she’s consumed copius amounts of the juice...
In the Catholic church, only heinious type sins are condemnable and require forgiveness...It’s not uncommon for a Catholic to g for a full year without confession and repentance...
Jesus hates ‘all’ sin...Many protestants confess their sins, big or small, daily, or hourly...
You wrote:
“In the Catholic church, only heinious type sins are condemnable and require forgiveness...”
You are COMPLETELY wrong. ALL sins require forgiveness. PERIOD. How we recieve that forgiveness can differ in regard to the seriousness of the effect of the sin. Mortal sins require auricular confession and absolution under normal circumstances. Venial sins do not.
If you’re going to talk about the Catholic faith, wouldn’t help for you to know what you’re talking about?
After Vatican II, many Ccatholic leaders wne nuts with liberalizing everything. As a result you see what we now have; an uneducated so-called Christian group who call them selves Catholic when, in fact, they are neither Catholic nor Christian. For othodox Catholics it has been a continual struggle to stand up for moral principles and for the basic belief in Jesus and his mercy.
The tide is turning, but unfortunately it has taken so long that severe damage has been wrought to millions of human souls who are more into the new-age religions than Christianity.
All anyone has to do is read:
“The Little Number of Those Who Are Saved”
by St. Leonard of Port Maurice
http://olrl.org/snt_docs/fewness.shtml
An example for those fallen away and disobedience.
“In the Catholic church, only heinious type sins are condemnable and require forgiveness...It’s not uncommon for a Catholic to g for a full year without confession and repentance...”
Faithful Catholics know that we sin every day of our lives. There is a constant need to confess our sinfullness to God and ask for mercy. We can do this ourselves when we say our evening prayers. Where did you get the idea that only heinous sins are condemnable? Perhaps it is that you are trying to describe what Catholics believe about Venial sin vs. mortal sin??? Mortal sin is considered to result in complete severance from God’s touch and graces. The soul is spiritually dead. In order to change the status of your soul, the Catholic must confess to a priest in the confessional and ask for forgiveness - which must be sincere with a resolution to avoid that sin in the future. If the person is not sincere, the confession is not valid. After all, God can read our souls.
I agree with what you have posted and have to add that many orthodox Catholics are now actively praying for the cleansing of the Church. I believe this has already begun and will continue. Remember that the gates of hell will NOT prevail....
Note to my Catholic friends: Educate or cleanse your faith of the “ethnic Catholics” and “cafeteria Catholics,” to say nothing of milquetoast clergy.
Good point. Catechizes has been flawed for a long time but getting better.
“Twenty-four percent of Catholics who attend Mass regularly say abortion is morally acceptable, compared to 19% of non-Catholic regular attendees. And more than half of Catholic regular worshipers say the same about embryonic stem cell research, compared to 45% of non-Catholic worshipers.”
What did people understand by “morally acceptable”? - “forgiving the sinner”? or “approving the practice”?
What did they mean regarding homosexuality? - “toleration of homosexuals”, which the Church encourages but evangelicals really don’t, or did they mean “moral approval of homosexual practices”? - which the Church doesn’t...
That's a Protestant way of framing the discussion, and one we can't accept as Catholics. It is the Magisterium, the teaching authority of the Church, that permits us to understand what Scripture *means* - Scripture that reached its canonical state in the bosom of the Church herself. Tradition + Scripture - it is not an either/or proposition for us, but both/and. We *should* read Scripture more often - no question. We should also read the Church's doctors and Fathers, so that we read Scripture with them.
Having said that, I will offer an ecumenical observation: These days, the greatest sectarian quarrels are increasingly not between the denominations, but within them. A Missouri Synod Lutheran likely has much more in common with orthodox Catholics on moral teachings (and probably a good deal else) than he does with, say, a lot of what goes on in the ELCA.
There is nothing sinful about drinking alcohol. If there were, there would have to be some hard questions about Christ's first miracle.
Drinking to excess, certainly. But I don't see the Scriptural basis for tee-totaling as intrinsically necessary.
One of which is we all know that it’s far easier to talk a girl out of her clothes when she’s consumed copius amounts of the juice...
In the Catholic church, only heinous type sins are condemnable and require forgiveness...It’s not uncommon for a Catholic to g for a full year without confession and repentance...”>>>>
Gambling is encouraged??? Drinking is encouraged??? I suppose my Church should cancel its sponsorship and meetings of “Gambler's Anonymous” and Alcholics Anonymous
“heinous” Strange name for mortal sin. Have we not ALL sinned and come short of the glory of God?
It is apparent you know very little of the Catholic Church and its teaching.
Note to Clemenza: Worry about your church and they can worry about theirs.
...many orthodox Catholics are now actively praying for the cleansing of the Church. ....
All Christians should do this. There is a lot of cleansing needed throughout the body of Christ.
The Catholic private schools in my area (San Jose) seem very liberal to me. They have the Day of Silence for Gays, they were openly supporting Obama, they were against Prop 8.
If their schools are liberal, it means they are teaching those kids to be liberal.
I will say that I think the mainstream protestant churches have also gone very liberal. The Methodist church that I grew up with in the 70s is very different from the Methodist church of today. I’m not a Methodist anymore. It’s too liberal for me.
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