For any Chinese who wander close by.The following from the Religion Moderator...
http://www.freerepublic.com/~religionmoderator/
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Caucus threads.
Who can post? Members of the caucus and those specifically invited
What can be posted? Anything but the beliefs of those who are not members of the caucus
What will be pulled? Reply posts mentioning the beliefs of those who are not members of the caucus. If the article is inappropriate for a caucus, the tag will be changed to open.
Who will be booted? Repeat offenders.
---
Now, back to my own comments...
Some FReepers may have gotten jumped on (in other threads) for posting their belief in the Rapture, from what the Bible says. But -- here -- we're in support of the Rapture.
You are a member of this RAPTURE CAUCUS if you are in support of the Biblical Doctrine of the Rapture, as a separate event from the Second Coming of Jesus Christ (which is to establish the Kingdom on earth).
Those who await the Rapture, are looking for that "Blessed Hope", Jesus Christ coming in the clouds, for His Bride, the Church.
So, feel free to join in the discussion -- in support of the Rapture -- as we talk about what information you have from the Bible, seminaries, church, pastors, books, friends and so on.
We can discuss the pertinent Bible verses, who are the pastors and/or churches who support it, what books are good to read, what is the purpose of the Rapture, the reason you find some compelling, or whatever else may be enlightening and helpful to the rest of us, in regards to edifying, exhorting and comforting one another, in support of the Biblical Doctrine of the Rapture.
Also, another "given" here is the Inspiration of Scripture from God, resulting in an inerrant and infallible Word from Him. Please refer to the "Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy" for a fuller explation of it. Although we can discuss what other pastors, preachers, teachers, churches, people, etc. explanations are, it all does come back to the final authority of the Word of God.
Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy
http://www.bible-researcher.com/chicago1.html
Chicago Statement on Biblical Hermeneutics
http://www.bible-researcher.com/chicago2.html
[this part gives guidelines for interpretating the Word of God]
This is indicated in Mathew 24 for example when Jesus said that tribulation would be earthquakes in diverse places, wars and rumors of wars but that the time was not yet, these are just the birth pangs.
The Great Tribulation is the period of God's wrath, a time AFTER the rapture. The generation (which as indicated in Genesis is 100 years) prior to that time is in the tribulation, but awaiting the Great Tribulation.
Once this is understood it clears up a whole lot of argument between pre-trib mid-trib and pre-wrath.
If the subject is the Great Tribulation then pre/mid/prewrath are all the same thing!
The gospels alone provide much info on this. Consider the timing of Christ's coming and the gathering of believers in relation to the tribulation period.
Matthew tells us that:
“Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened... And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect...” (Matt. 24:29-31).
Mark likewise tells us:
“after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened... And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with power and glory. And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost parts of the earth...” (Mark 13:24,26-27).
Although Luke does not use the word tribulation, he describes these events in the same order (see Luke 21:25-27). In each case, the second coming follows the tribulation and the gathering of the elect follows his coming. Not only is there no mention of Christ's appearance before or during this tribulation period, but believers are warned by all three writers that false Christs will appear to deceive many (Matt. 24:5,23-24; Mark 13:6,21-22; Luke 21:8).
Further, Matthew quotes Christ as saying that except the “great tribulation” were “shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened” (Matt. 24:21-22). This is also the theme of the parable of the wheat and the tares (Matt. 13:24-30,36-52).
John the Revelator also makes it clear that the saints will pass through the tribulation period prior to Christ's coming. In Rev. 7:13-14 an elder asked John, “What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? And [John] said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said unto me, These are they which came out of great tribulation and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.”
John goes on to speak in chapter 13 of the period in which the beast would reign (42 months or 3 1/2 years - Rev. 13:5). During this period we are told that, “it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them” (Rev. 13:7). Directly following this, Christ comes with his elect to Mount Zion (Rev. 14:1) and in the clouds to execute judgment (Rev. 14:15-16). Note that in chapters 14 through 19 the Lord executes judgment. Chapter 15 speaks of the exaltation of the just who “had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name” (Rev. 15:2; compare Rev. 13:7,15-17). Chapters 16 through 19 detail the “wrath of God” poured out upon the wicked (Rev. 16:1) and at the end of chapter 19 the beast is defeated by Christ (Rev. 19:20-21).
We must remember the beast's reign was previously identified as 42 months or three and one-half years (Rev. 13:5), and this seems to be the last half of the tribulation period. This is therefore further confirmation that these chapters describe events at the end of the tribulation. Compare also Dan. 7:25; Dan. 12:7; Zech. 13:8-9; Mal. 3:2,5-6; Mal. 4:1-3; Rev. 20:1-7 with 1 _Thess. 4:16; and Rev. 12:14 with Rev. 12:17 and Rev. 13:5.
Thanks for the opportunity to share the LDS perspective on these verses, and thanks for the thread.
Sevenbak
PING TO TOP
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Have you ever heard of Walid Shoebat?
This is another thread (an “open” thread) that I posted regarding a recent interview program from Jan Markell.
You’ll find that certain ministries and pastors and teachers will be supportive of the Rapture and these end-times events. These same ones also support the end-times events pertaining to Israel, instead of denying that there is any significance at all to Israel — as this *ties in directly* to the Rapture, too — because of this being the time that the “church” is removed from the earth and then it’s the “time” for God’s plan for Israel to get into gear. Things are “building up” and are in what is called “stage setting” right now (i.e., things being “put into place” to get ready for these events to happen as the prophecies say, and for the Rapture to happen very soon).
This is the thread that was posted...
Jan Markell Interviews - April 18, 2009 Program
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2233937/posts
This is how it started off, below...
Here is the latest program from Jan Markell of Olive Tree Ministries - from Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota, on AM980 KKMS. The weekly broadcast specilizes in interviewing various guest, usually two per program (an hour each).
The following are the two guests on for this most recent program.
Dr. Ron Rhodes returns to talk Bible prophecy with Jan. Why is the secular world more interested in eschatology than the church? Those who follow the “end-times” are now called “right-wing extremists” by Homeland Security. Our world is upside down, inside out, and what is the Christian—particularly those watching the “signs of the times”—to do? The scoffing has intensified but due to the turmoil of our times, more are listening, asking questions, and are going to ask you for answers. Dr. Rhodes is one of our “Understanding the Times 2009” speakers. Find Dr. Rhodes’ book, “Northern Storm Rising”, here.
Bill Salus is the author of the popular book “Israelestine: The Ancient Blueprints of the Future Middle East.” Jan and Bill talk about general “signs of the times,” the Church of Laodicea, the passage of Psalm 83 (found in a Bible opened to that page in a Irish filthy bog in 2006,) and other important issues of the day. Salus’ book will be on our Web site within a week and can be then found here. Salus believes the Psalm 83 war may be the next major war in the Mideast.
—
Here is some information from the Olive Tree Ministries about itself.
Jan Markell, Founder and President of Olive Tree Ministries, was saved under Jewish evangelist Hyman Appleman when she was a child. In Jan’s early ministry years she was a part of the Messianic movement, worked for pro-Israel agencies, and for Jewish evangelism ministries.
In 1982, Jan incorporated Olive Tree Ministries and the goals of the ministry can be read at “Our Purpose.” Jan has written eight major books with prominent Christian publishing houses. She has produced a dozen DVDs, some featured on Sky Angel. At one time she traveled full time across America as a speaker. Visit our store to see some of the products by Jan that are available for purchase. In the year 2000, Jan launched a radio branch of the ministry starting first on AM980 KKMS, Minneapolis/St. Paul. In 2004, the program was syndicated nationally and is heard internationally on the Internet. “Understanding the Times” radio has been received well as a source of news and information hard to find. “Understanding the Times” is interview and commentary-driven. Learn more at the “Radio Show” category. We have had e-mail response from across America and from two-dozen foreign countries listening to the program.
The ministry has five employees including Jan’s personal assistant Heidi Swander. Other employees assist in radio production and technical areas. Olive Tree Ministries is a registered 501c3 organization.
Jan Markell
Olive Tree Ministries
http://www.olivetreeviews.org/radio/mp3/
[ ... several years of radio programming at this link ... ]
The following is the latesst radio interview of the two guests — Dr., Ron Rhodes and Bill Salus.
April 18, 2009 - Hour 1
http://mp3.olivetreeviews.org/OTM2009_04_18A.mp3
Dr. Ron Rhodes returns to talk Bible prophecy with Jan. Why is the secular world more interested in eschatology than the church? Those who follow the “end-times” are now called “right-wing extremists” by Homeland Security. Our world is upside down, inside out, and what is the Christian—particularly those watching the “signs of the times”—to do? The scoffing has intensified but due to the turmoil of our times, more are listening, asking questions, and are going to ask you for answers. Dr. Rhodes is one of our “Understanding the Times 2009” speakers. Find Dr. Rhodes’ book, “Northern Storm Rising”, here. — http://www.ronrhodes.org.
—
April 18, 2009 - Hour 2
http://mp3.olivetreeviews.org/OTM2009_04_18B.mp3
Bill Salus is the author of the popular book “Israelestine: The Ancient Blueprints of the Future Middle East.” Jan and Bill talk about general “signs of the times,” the Church of Laodicea, the passage of Psalm 83 (found in a Bible opened to that page in a Irish filthy bog in 2006,) and other important issues of the day. Salus’ book will be on our Web site within a week and can be then found here. Salus believes the Psalm 83 war may be the next major war in the Mideast. http://www.prophecydepot.com.
These two shows are really great for information concerning these “End Times” that we are in, and how fast things are developing in today’s world.
Matthew 7:13 (NIV) Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.
Luke 18:8 (NIV) I tell you, he will see that they get justice, and quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?”
Matthew 7:21-23 (NIV) Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
What if the rapture will be a non event in the eyes of the world due to the lack of numbers of live members of the body of Christ at the time that may be involved? I even see people going to church the Sunday, (or Saturday) after the rapture. I am not saying this is true but only what if. And I am NOT saying it is only 144000.
On May 29 (the 6th of Sivan on the Hebrew calendar)Then Jews will celebrate Hag HaShavuot, the Feast of Weeks, or Pentecost.
This he later speculates, with a caveat about setting dates, is a good day, without setting dates, for the rapture.
Another good source of information on the Raptureshalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiachDr. J. R. Church and Gary Stearman
I'm a pre-tribber who is open to the slight possibility that Rapture could occur after the Tribulation has begun, but before the Great Tribulation (the second half of the seven-year Tribulation) is seriously underway.
My reading of scripture is unequivocal on its depiction of a scene in which saved and unsaved people are working side by side, one taken, one left behind. I don't believe this scenario is even possible very far into the Great Tribulation. Once the mark of the beast (MOTB) requirement has been globally implemented, saved people will be very quickly driven underground. They certainly won't be working side by side with the unsaved.
Thus, Rapture must occur prior to implementation of the MOTB. In fact, thinking logically, I think many Christians will be underground well before the MOTB. Many Christians will know it's coming and will want to prepare in advance. I have not studied in depth the expected timing of the MOTB program, but my general reading of scripture does not IMMHO indicate the likelihood that the MOTB program will be instituted right at the end of the seven years.
This is of course just one element on which I base my belief as a pre-tribber, but I think it's one of the stronger points from a biblical perspective, even though I virtually never here this topic addressed. Thoughts on this issue welcomed!
I love God.
MM
Thanks for includng me.
Food for thought
Satan is the 'prince' of this world ... 'the world lies in the power of Satan' ...
We know Satan's plan from the beginning is to foil the plan of God. It is agreed that Satan would not have been a part of Jesus death ... if he had realized the Deliverance, salvation, redemption, aspects of the event.
So it seems possible ... that it is Satan doing the restraining.
Think about it for a bit. Sorry I did not reference scriptures supporting the rather basic points regarding my possible deduction.
Later ...
The subject of the Rapture never gets old, it's never stale, it's been read about in the Bible for almost 2,000 years now, and Christians are expectantly awaiting the return of the Lord, first for His church (to take them home with Him) and then for Him to return back to this earth, to set up the one-world government, in which He rules and reigns over all the nations of the world.
So, we can come back to this time and time again, and it never gets old... :-)
BUT... to make sure that any new poster is "up-to-speed" on the rules for the Rapture Caucus, I post that here again.
In short they say, "post here in this thread if you support the Pre-trib, Mid-trib and/or Pre-wrath Rapture [not Post-trib]. Otherwise, if you don't -- don't post here.
The Religion Moderator's home page ...
Types of threads and guidelines pertaining to the Religion Forum:
[Threads listed are "Prayer", "Devotional", "Caucus" and "Ecumenical"; included here is the "Caucus" definition.]
Caucus threads are closed to any poster who is not a member of the caucus.
For instance, if it says “Catholic Caucus” and you are not Catholic, do not post to the thread. However, if the poster of the caucus invites you, I will not boot you from the thread.
The “caucus” article and posts must not compare beliefs or speak in behalf of a belief outside the caucus.
Who can post? Members of the caucus and those specifically invited
What can be posted? Anything but the beliefs of those who are not members of the caucus
What will be pulled? Reply posts mentioning the beliefs of those who are not members of the caucus. If the article is inappropriate for a caucus, the tag will be changed to open.
Who will be booted? Repeat offenders.
Now, back to my own comments...
Some FReepers may have gotten jumped on (in other threads) for posting their belief in the Rapture, from what the Bible says. But -- here -- we're in support of the Rapture.
You are a member of this RAPTURE CAUCUS if you are in support of the Biblical Doctrine of the Rapture, as a separate event from the Second Coming of Jesus Christ (which is to establish the Kingdom on earth). This is defined per Post #78 (the Religion Moderator) and Post #79 (my affirmation of the same), which says we are talking about a Pre-Trib, Mid-Trib and Pre-Wrath Rapture, and not a Post-Trib Rapture (which happens at the same time as the return of Jesus Christ to the earth, i.e., His Second Coming).
Those who await the Rapture, are looking for that "Blessed Hope", Jesus Christ coming in the clouds, for His Bride, the Church.
So, feel free to join in the discussion -- in support of the Rapture -- as we talk about what information you have from the Bible, seminaries, church, pastors, books, friends and so on.
We can discuss the pertinent Bible verses, who are the pastors and/or churches who support it, what books are good to read, what is the purpose of the Rapture, the reason you find some compelling, or whatever else may be enlightening and helpful to the rest of us, in regards to edifying, exhorting and comforting one another, in support of the Biblical Doctrine of the Rapture.
Also, another "given" here is the Inspiration of Scripture from God, an inerrant and infallible Word from Him. Please refer to the "Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy" for a fuller explation of it. Although we can discuss what other pastors, preachers, teachers, churches, people, etc. explanations are, it all does come back to the final authority of the Word of God and not writers, pastors, theologians, churches or any other temporal entity (although we do use those for some help and understanding, just not the final authority on the matter). Remember, all these others are also appealing to the Word of God, in their explanations and understandings.
Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy
http://www.bible-researcher.com/chicago1.html
Chicago Statement on Biblical Hermeneutics
http://www.bible-researcher.com/chicago2.html
[this part gives guidelines for interpretating the Word of God]
Saving
For any Chinese who wander close by.I have it on good authority the the newly formed Sanhedrinshalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
is planning a Korban Pesach this coming Pesach.The first since 70 CE
An altar made from uncut stones is being assembled near Jericho.
It was dedicated this past Tisha B'av.
Tisha B'av was auspicious as it was the date of the destruction of the Temple in 70CE.
At some time in the near future the altar will be moved to the temple mount.
The first Korban Pesach was during the Exodus.
Yah'shua presented Himself as the Korban Pesach to cover our sins.
Look up ! Yah'shua is coming very soon !
In order for the Evil One
to end regular sacrifice
at the middle of the tribulation,
it must start;Daniel 9: 26 "Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined.
27 "And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate."Daniel 11: 31 "Forces from him will arise, desecrate the sanctuary fortress, and do away with the regular sacrifice. And they will set up the abomination of desolation.
Daniel 12: 9 He said, "Go your way, Daniel, for these words are concealed and sealed up until the end time.
10 "Many will be purged, purified and refined, but the wicked will act wickedly; and none of the wicked will understand, but those who have insight will understand.
11 "From the time that the regular sacrifice is abolished and the abomination of desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days.
12 "How blessed is he who keeps waiting and attains to the 1,335 days!Regular Passover sacrifice will be restarting after 1940 years.
The Sanhedrin is planning to restart the sacrifice of Lambs at Passover this year.
See Korban Pesach
Wow! I just stumbled on this thread and it’s like a glass of cold clear water on a hot parched day! How wonderful to read about the rapture without the usual scoffing.
I came to Christ back in 1988 through a dream about the rapture. At the time I was newly married, and my husband was a believer but I was not. In my very vivid dream, I woke up to see him floating above the bed completely joyful, and then he was just gone. I have never felt such a desolate, horrified feeling as I did at that moment. He was gone and didn’t even seem to care that I wasn’t with him.
At the time I knew nothing about the rapture, but the dream left such an impression on me that the next day I mentioned it to my husband, and he explained that some Christians believe that is what will happen when Jesus returns for His people. I gave my life to Christ then and there, and I’ve never looked back. God is so good!
Thank you for this thread and the chance to ponder the rapture in a supportive environment.
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I’m a “rapture-ite”
