Posted on 02/19/2009 7:51:22 AM PST by greyfoxx39
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Like the Smoky Backroom, the conversation may be offensive to some.
Thin-skinned posters will be booted from “open” threads because in the town square, they are the disrupters.
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Ping.
That Joey Smith and his puffed up braggin’ and his occult stuff and sealing thingy reminds me of Puff the Magic Dragon...
Puff, the Magic Dragon lived by the sea
And frolicked in the autumn mist in a land called honah lee,
Little Jackie Paper loved that rascal Puff,
And brought him strings and SEALING WAX and other fancy stuff.
Just..... wow.....
I can think of a couple of "elders" here that believe that what they say is "the will and mind and word and voice of the Lord."...can't you? ;)
“As found in the book of Abraham, Jehovah’s promise to his friend Abraham included this assurance: “I give unto thee a promise that this right”—the right to receive the Melchizedek Priesthood—“shall continue” forever. That great patriarch was also promised, “In thee, and in thy seed after thee (that is to say, the literal seed, or the seed of the body) shall all the families of the earth be blessed, even with the blessings of the Gospel, which are the blessings of salvation, even of life eternal.” (Abr. 2:11.)”
The Book of Abraham has over and over again been shown to be a fraud and hence what is based on it is fraud.
And by posting this you expose it. Thanks.
That is why computers and desktop publishing were created by the Almighty, makes it easy to spread the Good(new and revised this week)News...
Its funny how the LDS use McConkie for many things but when those outside the LDS church use him, we are told its “not official doctrine”. Another example of “lay theology” at work apparently.
AD IMAGINEM DEI Thoughts on the history of art, from a Catholic viewpoint
“The sea was then cast; it was made with a circular rim, and measured ten cubits across, five in height, and thirty in circumference. Under the brim, gourds encircled it, ten to the cubit all the way around; the gourds were in two rows and were cast in one mold with the sea. This rested on twelve oxen, three facing north, three facing west, three facing south, and three facing east, with their haunches all toward the center, where the sea was set upon them. It was a handbreadth thick, and its brim resembled that of a cup, being lily-shaped. Its capacity was two thousand measures.” I Kings 7:23-26
Bring it back for a select few, those who are deemed “worthy” you mean?
Adopting “orthodox” Christian art, wording, and symbolism does not make a church Christian.
I guess they want Christianity to conform to Mormonism instead of the reverse.
Exactly! Why not? They are absolutely CONVINCED that God removed HIS gospel from the earth and chose to trust the RESTORATION of it to an ignorant 14-year-old farm boy who grew to be one of the most successful charlatans in history.
Too bad God didn't have any better judgement than that!
“From the days of the first dispensation it has been the practice of the Lord’s people to make selections from the scriptural utterances of those who are appointed to lead the Church and to publish these selections as formal and official scripture. All inspired sayings and writings are true and are and should be accepted and believed by all who call themselves Saints. But the revelations, visions, prophecies, and narrations selected and published for official use are thereby made binding upon the people in a particular and special sense. They become part of the standard works of the Church. They become the standards, the measuring rods, by which doctrine and procedure are determined.”
This statement has enormous implications for the Mormon faithful.
“....make selections from the scriptural utterances of those who are appointed to lead the Church and to publish these selections as formal and official scripture.”
From what the leaders utter “formal and official scripture” can be selected. Can such “scripture” be false or contradictory?
” All inspired sayings and writings are true and are and should be accepted and believed by all who call themselves Saints”
I suppose the “inspired sayings and writings” would be the comments by trusted leaders, though evidently these “inspired sayings and writings” don't rise to the level of scripture. But while these should be “accepted and believed” since the leader wasn't acting a prophet it can't be called “official teachings”.
But the sayings, prophecies, revelations, visions, narratives, that are selected are elevated to same level as the Bible, BoM, etc., i.e., Holy Writ.
No matter how unbiblical a doctrine is, once it has been selected for inclusion in “the standard works” it must be defended as truth. Even complete frauds like The Book of Abraham.
One can look at it and hear all the outlandish defenses of it but since it is part of “the standard works” it must be defended as a matter faith.
The only alternative to this spiritual contortion would be to remove this fraudulent work and that is unthinkable.
(BTW, stick with this post to the end...because I have a unique dialogue you haven't seen anywhere...)
(1) First, JF Smith accuses Joe Smith, Jr. of "...not yet envision[ing] the soul-expanding concept of salvation for the dead":
From this, it is clear that whatever the scriptures said about the promises made to the fathers, about all the seed of Abraham having the right to special blessings, and about the preaching of the gospel in the spirit world, the Prophet had not yet envisioned the soul-expanding concept of salvation for the dead.
Immediately JF Smith launches into a dream he has and writes: In this setting, the answer was given and the gospel spread forth its light to embrace the living and the dead. “Thus came the voice of the Lord unto me, saying—All who have died without a knowledge of this Gospel, who would have received it if they had been permitted to tarry, shall be heirs of the celestial kingdom of God; also all that shall die henceforth without a knowledge of it, who would have received it with all their hearts, shall be heirs of that kingdom, for I, the Lord, will judge all men according to their works, according to the desire of their hearts.”
(2) So, did you all catch that last line? The major thrust here, according to JF Smith, is that God will "...judge all men according to their works." But the bigger context of JF Smith's dream was the gospel being preached to these folks post-death. Does anyone see the open disconnect there?
If not, here it is: If the Mormon god puts a heavier emphasis on judging men according to their works as the basis of what post-death kingdom they wind up in...then please explain what difference it's going to make to...
...do billions of hours of genealogical research...
...do millions of ritualistic proxy baptisms...
...do millions of post-death ritualistic sealings...
...because, after all, what good works are these spirits going to perform in the netherworld even if they are receptive to the post-death Mormon gospel???
The true order of it all was revealed by the writer of the book of Hebrews: "It is appointed for man to die once, and then the judgment." (Heb. 9:27)
Mormons would have you believe that Christians took a knife and excised much out of Heb. 9:27. Their version of an expanded Heb. 9:27 would read something like this:
Heb. 9:27(a): It is appointed for man to die once, and then wait in the big netherworld waiting room zillions of times worse than your worst doc's office, 'cause after all, the records process of this whole thing is even worse than your worst doctor-office nightmare...
Commentary: Why? Because those Mormon missionary "physician attendants" on the other side are held up by lack of accurate records among humanity, especially for the bulk of humanity whoever lived up until the first 16 centuries post-Christ. And even for those who lived between the 17th and 21st centuries, you have to await for people scrounging around tombstones for records confirmation, and then await a paper bureaucracy trail worst than Washington D.C. just to get the proxy baptism approved -- minus duplication.
Additional commentary: ...then, when or if the records are even located and properly processed past the bureaucratic snafus on the blue-earth side of things, a Mormon-spirit missionary has to be found -- someone who's been primed all his life that "families are forever" and yet is now being told he needs to leave that family, again, to go to some spirit who most likely rejected his doorbell rings in the previous life...
Heb. 9:27(b): ...then, when the Mormon gospel is presented to this netherworld spirit, he can either receive it or reject it...
Heb. 9:27(c) ...if he rejects it, he's gonna in all likelihood be "saved" and "resurrected" anyway, thus saith the Mormon "gospel"...
Commentary: ...he'll just be kept out of the elite Kolobian Heights star neighborhood...and as long as he wasn't a liar, adulterer, sorcerer or whoremonger and the like, he'll avoid the 1,000-year jail sentence in hell...thus, when LDS spirit-world missionaries zoom on by Telestialville and see all these resurrected, saved souls who rejected the Mormon gospel on both sides of the divide, they think, "Why did we bother with all the missionary ventures & geneology & temple rituals & spirit-side gospel presentations again?"
Heb. 9:27(d): ...some netherworld spirits receive the Mormon gospel...
Commentary...if this netherworld spirit receives the Mormon gospel, it dons on him that it's not really going to make much of a spiritual real estate difference, anyway, because, he's told, he's about to be judged on something he can't do anything about -- the works he did or didn't do while he was in the body...which brings me to the question that if the heart of the Mormon gospel is doing good works after receiving it, then why offer it to somebody who can't really do those good works given he's now minus a body?
Heb. 9:27(e): ...then he finally is brought before God the judge, who proceeds to judge him on his sins of commission in the body, sins of omission while he was in the body...
Commentary: "But you don't understand Mormon afterlife theology, C! Don't you see! At least by receiving the-Mormon-gospel-in-the-afterlife-based-upon-his-proxy-baptism-in-this-life-he-can-get-bumped-up-from-telestialville-to-terrestialville!"
And my response to that? "You're telling me that because of what a spirit does in the afterlife --
-- receive by 100% faith what a substitute has done for you by proxy --
--and believe in that act 100% --
--you receive a higher degree of heavenly glory, right?"
"Right"
"And you're telling me that these spirits receiving this Mormon gospel won't be able to do any good works because they won't have yet have their resurrected body, right?"
"Right."
"Boy, this kind of sounds a bit like the Christian gospel right now.
--"You receive by faith what somebody (Jesus Christ) did on your behalf-by-proxy.
--"You trust in this act on the cross -- 100% complete faith.
--"And, whatever good works you do after receiving this act done on your behalf still gets you the same real estate in the afterlife
--"'cause it was the act of receiving the gospel and believing in what Christ did for you that opened that particular door to heaven."
"Oh."
"Yeah, Oh."
Immediately JF Smith launches into A DREAM HE HAS and writes: In this setting, the answer was given and the gospel spread forth its light to embrace the living and the dead. “Thus came the voice of the Lord unto me, saying—All who have died without a knowledge of this Gospel, who would have received it if they had been permitted to tarry, shall be heirs of the celestial kingdom of God; also all that shall die henceforth without a knowledge of it, who would have received it with all their hearts, shall be heirs of that kingdom, for I, the Lord, will judge all men according to their works, according to the desire of their hearts.”
_____________________________________________________
And yet the mormons claim to be following the Bible ..
GOOGLE® yourself!
"hands to the square" + mormon + mason
Will it STAY this time or be REMOVED as @ #9??
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