Posted on 01/11/2009 11:49:33 AM PST by GiovannaNicoletta
As the greatest supernatural intervention of human history -- a defense right out of heaven above -- Israel's God is going to reveal Himself. When this Divine display is finished, the Muslim religion will be stripped of all its glory. It will no doubt cause great anger among the hard core Muslims that escape death but a turning to Jesus Christ of those honest individuals that see the glory of our Eternal God. The Muslim religion is a farce when it is seen for what it really represents. Already millions of former Muslims have turned to Christ and the harvest has barely begun. One Saudi sheikh says in disgust that six million Muslims are converting to Christ yearly.
This coming war will serve as the eternal design of Bible prophecy. Men may well look at such a catastrophic devastation as cruel and beyond the acts of a Holy God, but this expression of wrath has been building for many centuries. It will include judgments against many vile and Godless acts of terror, great hatred manifest against the Jewish people, and hatred toward God Himself. Germany will receive her final judgment for the Holocaust and Russia will be judged for her atheistic hatred against her own people, as well as against Israelis and Christians. The Muslim religion will answer for centuries of vileness and defiance against the true and living God. The catastrophic level of God's wrath will be in the exact proportion to the wicked history of the nations involved.
This war could not occur until the nation of Israel was back in a portion of the Promise Land. There is not enough military might in the entire armies of the world to change God's promises. Israel is already a rich nation and is becoming richer every day. Their military is without parallel. They have discovered massive reserves of oil and eventually that discovery will be greater than all the Arab nations combined. How do we know that their oil deposits will be the world's greatest? The Promise Land and her treasures were ordained to flow as "milk and honey."
There are several promises for the discovery of oil by the Jewish people. God said, "For the precious things of heaven, for the dew, and for the deep that coucheth beneath…for they shall suck of the abundance of the seas, and of treasures hid in the sand…and let him dip his foot in oil" (Deuteronomy 33:13, 19, and 24). Someone can argue whether "the deep that coucheth beneath, treasures hid in the sand" or "dip his foot in oil" means oil deposits; but if we take these words literally, they are indeed powerful.
It is important that we know the Biblical reason for the War of Gog and Magog. It is Israel's riches and abundance that Russia covets. We know why the Muslims want to eliminate Israel, but Russia and much of her coalition forces want the treasures and wealth. If you study the unbelievable agricultural success, the technological brilliance, the military capabilities, and then add the possibility of billions of barrels of black gold, you will understand that Russia can see nothing but worldwide wealth and dominance.
One of their top politicians and advocates of this war to the south has left no room for guessing. Here are the words of Vladimir Volfovich Zhirinovsky, a strategic ally of Putin:
The mighty God of our Bible has allowed enough of His extension of grace. It's time for judgment and it's time to make all His glory visible to the human family. Listen to God's promise of intervention. "And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes. Thus saith the Lord GOD; Art thou he of whom I have spoken in old time by my servants the prophets of Israel, which prophesied in those days many years that I would bring thee against them? And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that my fury shall come up in my face" (Ezekiel 38:16-18).
I pray that America will be there to help in this hour, but we will not be needed. I actually believe, contrary to many, that we will be faithful to Israel to the end. That will be the reason God honors America as a sheep nation in Matthew chapter twenty-five. Regardless, this will end the worldwide threat from Muslim terrorists and will sweep the Temple Mount in Jerusalem of every semblance of the false sun-god, named Allah.
Unnamed pestilences and blood will rain on the army of millions. The rain will be overflowing and mixed with hailstones, fire, and brimstones. It will be massive and will actually fall from Heaven in such a manner that no one will doubt that it is God Himself that fights for Israel. The Bible is careful to state that the slaughter of this mob of wicked people extends back to their staging countries and capital cities. "And I will send a fire on Magog, and among them that dwell carelessly in the isles: and they shall know that I am the LORD. So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel" (Ezekiel 39:6-7).
Magog represents the Russian capital of Moscow and this Scripture includes the other nations which join this coalition. The judgment will leave no doubt about God's rejection of the Muslim Koran and religion. The world is trying to convince us that the Muslim god is identical to our Heavenly Father and His Son, Jesus Christ. This lie will die with Gog and Magog in the mountains of Israel and in the nations that join this end time war.
The glory of God will be manifest and the world will know. Out of this massive judgment will be a mighty visitation of Holy Ghost awakening. Joel settled the utter destruction of the Northern horde and promised the Latter Rain of God's Spirit. He said by the Holy Spirit, "But I will remove far off from you the northern army… Fear not, O land; be glad and rejoice: for the LORD will do great things" (Joel 2:20a, 21). He added the Latter Rain promise two verses later, "He will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month" (Joel 2:23b). The first month is the Feast of Trumpets, the next unfulfilled feast of Israel. It is also a Jewish type for the coming Rapture of Christ's Bride.
We are living in the golden age of the prophetic finishing of all things. Keep your eyes on the Holy Scripture and your heart in total surrender to the Lordship of our Savior and Captain, Jesus Christ.
“The rapture has no foundation in scripture , either pre or post...” ~ HailReagan78
Exactly.
The Great Premillennial HOAX http://www.mtio.com/articles/aissar69.htm
In 1970, Hal Lindsey came out with his monstrous best-selling book (15 million sold), “The Late Great Planet Earth.” Since then, much of Evangelical Christianity has been obsessed with the signs of the times.
From 1971 until 1986, I was an active, visible participant in the Lutheran Charismatic Movement. Since the movement was highly influenced by Pentecostal thinking, in addition to adopting the theology of the Holy Spirit, many Lutheran Charismatics also adopted the eschatology of Pentecostals. I guess you might say, “We got the Holy Spirit, feathers and all.” I adopted and also taught the Premillennial view of the end times. In fact, given the circumstances in the world, there was little doubt in my mind that this was the accurate understanding of Biblical prophecy.
May 13, 1981
The evening of May 13, 1981, was the regular meeting of the Ladies’ Guild of Bethel Lutheran Church in Howard City, Mich. As pastor of the congregation, I attended the meeting and presented a topic for discussion.
May 13, 1981, was a very special evening for prophecy buffs. It could very well have been the last night that Christians would spend upon this earth. For if everything being said by the modern-day experts in Biblical prophecy was true, May 14 was the day of “the Rapture.”
As the pastor, I felt it was my responsibility to share the why and wherefore of this momentous event with these women. Being good, traditional, Lutheran laypeople, they knew very little, if anything, about Biblical prophecy. It was my task to warn them of the event that might transpire within the next 24 hours.
By sharing this story with you, I hope to impart the essence of Premillennial thinking.
The Generation of the Fig Tree
The Biblical scenario I presented to these unsuspecting women, proving that the rapture would take place the next day, began with an interpretation of Matt. 24:32-34. Jesus said:
Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.
What generation was Jesus talking about? Many scholars believed that it was the generation of the people that Jesus was addressing and that the events He was predicting were not the end of the world, but rather the destruction of Jerusalem. In fact, within 40 years, Jerusalem would be utterly destroyed.
While that is all well and good, there was another way of looking at these words of Jesus - a way that caused these predictions to become very real in the here and now.
From the notes in my Scofield Bible, I knew there would be a future restoration of Israel in the land. In Ez. 34:13, the prophet predicted that God would gather the Jews from the nations and bring them into their own land. Writing his notes in 1908, Scofield stated that this referred to a future restoration of the nation of Israel, or, as some perceived it, the budding of the fig tree. In the Old Testament, the nation of Israel was referred to as a fig tree. In Matt. 21:19, Jesus cursed the fig tree because it had no fruit. This was perceived as a rejection of Israel.
Well, on May 14, 1948, the fig tree budded. Israel became a nation as a result of a United Nations declaration. This date was vital to all Biblical prophecy experts. Israel was in the land. The countdown to the end had begun. We were indeed the generation of the fig tree. It was this generation that would see the end of all things. Since a generation was 40 years, the end would be in 1988.
Those who taught this view also taught, from Scripture, that before the end of all things, there would be a tribulation period of seven years according to the prophecies of Daniel. Rev. 7:14 speaks of the Great Tribulation. During those seven years, the anti-Christ would arise. He would be a political figure and, according to Dan. 7:24-25, he would be given authority by ten kings. Since the European Common market was forming and nearly ten nations had already come together, the time of the anti-Christ was soon upon us.
Other signs of the rise of the anti-Christ were obvious. Given the fact that scanning devices were beginning to become evident in grocery stores, could the “mark of the beast” be far behind? We would soon be in the position of having to make a choice when the government brands us with a mark on the right hand or forehead, without which we would not be able to buy or sell, according to Revelation 13.
In addition, Ezekiel 38 and 39 warned about the invasion of Israel by “Gog and Magog.” According to the notes in my Scofield Bible, this referred to a time when Israel was in the land and Russia, advancing from the north, would invade them. The politics at that time allowed for this to be a very real possibility. The book of Ezekiel stated that God will destroy the Russian army and the buzzards would eat their flesh. A tract was being circulated that claimed the buzzards were laying twice as many eggs in Israel in order to have enough troops to eat the Russians. (I often wondered how they knew this.)
In 1967, the armies of Israel had captured the old city of Jerusalem, including temple mount. According to Ezekiel 40ff., the millennial temple was to be built. Everything was in order. An interesting rumor circulated that the stones for the temple were already carved out of Bedford, Ind., limestone and were hidden in caves. Other rumors stated that the Ark of the Covenant had been discovered under the temple site and that plans to rebuild were underway.
It was happening!
In 1978, I led my first trip to the land of Israel. There were four groups of Lutheran Charismatics taking the trip. I led one of the groups. The purpose of the trip was to attend a “Prophecy Conference” in Jerusalem, led by Derek Prince. Since so much of my thinking had been influenced by the popular Premillennial prophetic notions of the day, it was an exciting trip. Things were happening in the land. The people were restored. God seemed to be on their side as they went to battle against the enemies who surrounded them.
Prince spoke on the subject of parallel restorations, comparing the events in Israel with the events marking the growth of the Charismatic Movement. In 1948, when Israel became a nation, both the Billy Graham crusades and the Latter Rain Movement (early roots of the Charismatic Movement) started. In 1967, when Israel took the old city of Jerusalem, the Holy Spirit was poured out upon Roman Catholics at Notre Dame. In 1971, the Yom Kippur war broke out in Israel while the Holy Spirit moved mightily on the different denominations. For one participating in these events, these connections were obvious.
What was happening at the Dead Sea was very interesting. Zechariah 14 spoke of the return of the Messiah to the Mount of Olives, causing a great earthquake that would split the mount in two. Living water would flow from temple mount.
This stream of living water coming out of temple mount would flow to the Dead Sea and, according to Ezekiel (47:8ff):
This water flows toward the eastern region and goes down into the Arabah, where it enters the Sea. When it empties into the Sea, the water there becomes fresh. Swarms of living creatures will live wherever the river flows. There will be large numbers of fish, because this water flows there and makes the salt water fresh so where the river flows everything will live. Fishermen will stand along the shore from En Gedi to En Eglaim there will be places for spreading nets. The fish will be of many kinds - like the fish of the Great Sea. But the swamps and marshes will not become fresh they will be left for salt.
Well, parts of this prophecy were already in place. The Dead Sea had been divided due to the lack of water flowing down from the Sea of Galilee. The fresh water from the Galilee was being pumped into the desert so that the “desert was blooming,” as Is. 35:1-2 stated.
This lack of water to the Dead Sea divided the sea. As Ezekiel predicted, a portion would be left for salt after the rest of the Sea had been sweetened with the living water pouring out of temple mount. We even took a dip in the Dead Sea at En Gedi, rejoicing that one day this would be sweet water after Jesus returned. In fact, our guide, who catered to end-of-the-world-minded Christians, showed us fish ponds near the northern-most part of the Dead Sea which, according to his explanation, were being prepared for the time when the Dead Sea would be sweetened.
Back to May 13, 1981
A very important ingredient in the Premillennial scenario was “the rapture.” Christians would not pass through the great seven-year tribulation. They would be taken out or snatched away and be with the Lord. In Matt. 24:38-41, Jesus spoke of one being taken and one being left. Also, 1 Thess. 4:17 “clearly” spoke of the Rapture:
After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
The Rapture of the church was imminent. Hal Lindsey had stated that it was the next event in the prophetic scenario. I had a bumper sticker that read, “In case of rapture, this car will self-destruct.” My favorite song was “The King Is Coming.” According to the Premillennial scenario, the end of all things would be in 1988, or 40 years after Israel occupied in the land and the “fig tree blossoms.” If you deduct seven years for the Tribulation, this means that on May 14, 1981, the rapture of the Church would take place. Therefore, this was a very exciting evening to be alive!
I shared every detail with the women of the Bethel Lutheran Church Ladies’ Guild. After my presentation, one little elderly woman said, “Reverend, why are you scaring us?”
Well, May 14, 1988, came and went, and nothing happened. In fact, 1988 came and went and nothing happened. Since that time, the Soviet Union has disbanded. The European Common Market now includes far more than ten members and Israel is giving land back to the Palestinians. When the events did not pan out, some prophecy “experts” redated the blooming of the fig tree to 1967, when Israel occupied the old city of Jerusalem. This would put the time of the end in the year 2007 and the “rapture” in the year 2000. The Y2K scare also fueled the notion that this would be the start of the tribulation. Again, it didn’t happen.
Having bought into this Premillennial way of thinking and living with great expectations that came to absolutely nothing brought me to the conclusion that this theology is the greatest hoax ever visited upon unsuspecting Christians. The hoax lives on. Despite of unfulfilled predictions, the thinking persists.
The Roots of the System
I embraced the Premillennial Dispensational way of thinking because it appeared to be the most reasonable explanation of the events that were occurring. It is the primary end-time position taught within much of modern Evangelical Christianity, even though all the predictions that have arisen as a result of this view have come to naught. What is the source of this teaching? How did it arise?
In 1832, Edward Irving (1792-1834) established the Catholic Apostolic Church and taught the imminent return of Jesus Christ. Irving believed there had to be a reestablishment of the 12 apostles before Jesus would return. He appointed these 12 apostles. Of course, one by one, they eventually died and Jesus never returned. John Nelson Darby, who founded the Plymouth Brethren in 1847 in England and Ireland, spearheaded the dispensational interpretation of the Bible. He was widely influenced by Edward Irving. Darby taught that Biblical history is divided into seven “dispensations” or periods of time. The final dispensation would be the 1000-year millennial reign of Christ on earth. An important key to understanding Dispensationalism is the notion that God will reestablish an earthly kingdom with the nation of Israel. For this reason, the events in Israel are of vital importance for the Premillennial Dispensationalist. Before the coming of Jesus, the temple would be rebuilt and the sacrificial system reinstated.
Because this kingdom was offered and then refused by the Jews, it would be offered again in the future. By crucifying Jesus, the Jews rejected the kingdom, but God did not reject Israel. As an after-thought or a parenthesis, Christ then went on to establish the church because Gentiles now believed what the Jews rejected. This is the “Church Age” spoken of by Dispensationalists and it must end before God can re-establish His primary work with the Jews. The church age ends with the rapture. Darby’s Dispensational ideas caught on like wildfire in America, and were widely spread by the Scofield Reference Bible. Scofield, a layman, having studied Biblical prophecy for 30 years, added notes to the text of Scripture promoting Darby¹s Dispensational theology. Many Christians today regard Scofield’s notes as being equally inspired as the Bible itself.
Apparently, however, neither Darby nor Scofield originated the idea of a pre-tribulation rapture. Darby was inspired by a woman named Margaret MacDonald who reported a revelation given to her by God during a healing service in Port Glasgow, Scotland, in 1830. MacDonald reported that in her vision, there was a two-stage process to the Second Coming of Christ. The first stage, the rapture, removed the church from this world. Christians would be caught up before the great tribulation and be taken to heaven. After the tribulation, Jesus would return to earth and establish His millennial kingdom. These ideas were embraced by Darby, promoted by Scofield and developed more fully in many of the Bible schools like Moody, Fuller and especially Dallas Theological Seminary during the 20th century in the United States. Many of the more fanatical proponents of the premillennial view are graduates of Dallas Theological Seminary.
Bad Theology
This theological system is replete with errors.
1. The present-day nation of Israel is no more involved in God’s plans for the future than is France, England, Germany, the United States, etc. The teaching of the New Testament is very clear - Jesus fulfilled everything pertaining to Israel and formed the New Israel, His church. It is an abomination to claim that the church is merely a parenthesis or an afterthought in the divine scheme of redemption. In fact, the Bible clearly states that the plans of God and the wisdom of God will be revealed in His church (Eph. 3:8-11).
2. Much of the “tribulation prophecy” in the Old Testament prophets, the Olivet discourses of our Lord Jesus, and the Book of Revelation was fulfilled in the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. When Jesus said in Matt. 24:32-34 that “this generation will not pass away,” He was not referring to some future generation that would see the political nation of Israel established by the United Nations. He was referring to the generation alive at the time He spoke the words. His words were fulfilled. In 70 A.D. Jerusalem was utterly destroyed. In fact, there is a view of Biblical prophecy called Preterism. Those who hold the view claim that all futuristic prophecy was fulfilled in the First Century.
3. The teaching of two “second comings” of Jesus is not Biblical. As the Apostles’ Creed simply states, “From thence he shall come to judge the living and the dead.” On the mount of Ascension the angels told the disciples that He would come again in the same way they saw Him depart into heaven. Nowhere does the Bible teach two “second comings.” The language of 1 Thess. 4:17 does not allow for the “rapture” teaching. The phrase “to meet the Lord” literally means “to meet for the purpose of welcoming back.” The Greek phrase “to meet” ( eis apanthsin) is only used on four occasions in the New Testament. In each case it means to go out to meet for the purpose of welcoming. (See, for example, Acts 28:15.)
Conclusion
Premillennial Dispensationalism is a deceptive teaching. Those who promote these views and fill the minds of God’s people with this nonsense are perpetrating a hoax.
Jesus is coming again. This is our glorious hope. Jesus told us to be about the business of preaching and teaching His Gospel and not speculate about His second coming. Those who believe in Jesus and trust His blood and righteousness for their salvation are prepared for His coming. “Even so, come Lord Jesus!”
So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. (Matthew 24: 33, 34, 36)
So while we cannot know the exact hour that He will return, we have been given signs that will occur right before He does return and we will know when it is near by the fact that the signs are happening.
It is unwise to deny that the events that are occurring in the world today, all around us and in light of the fulfillment of the major prophecy of Israel becoming a nation, are indeed the signs that Christ gave us to look for before His return.
Christ also told us that when these things "begin to happen, look up, lift up your heads, for your redemption draws nigh". These things are now happening, and Christians are not only expecting the imminent event known as the Rapture to occur any minute, but are telling as many people as possible so that a few might believe and be able to know Christ, have a personal relationship with Him, and escape the coming horror that will be unleashed on a wicked, unbelieving world.
The nations spoken of by Ezekiel in chapter 38 were all located in Turkey not Russia and Germany as some believe. Other then Persia (Iran), Ethiopia (kinda where Sudan is now), and Libya the other countries mentioned were in Asia Minor.
That’s not to say Russia wont be a behind the scenes supporter which I think they will be but they are not the ones doing the invasion (or attempted invasion).
JB
Based on my own study, here is what I believe is the breakdown:
There are certainly different theories on the countries involved, all of which could be the right one. I think one thing is for certain - we can count on most of the Islamic nations stupidly participating in this futile endeavor.
The word “rapture” is not in the Bible. But the church (new-testament believers) is not mentioned after Chapter 4 or 5 (i’d have to look again for the precise chapter #). Most Bible scholars are in agreement that the rapture happens before the 7 year tribulation period. I do believe that we will see upheaval, but not the plagues in the 7 years.
read later
Joel Rosenberg - ‘Epicenter’ - scared me to death.
I've sometimes wondered if biometrics fulfills this prophecy - fingerprints and retinal scans.
Thanks for the history of the Rapture belief. I had read somewhere that the idea began in the 19th century, but never bothered to research it.
Don't be afraid - get ready. If the Rapture belief is correct (I don't believe it is), someone else can use your provisions. If it's NOT, you'll want to be able to help others.
Anyway, speaking of the mark, I heard the other day that the plan is to have everyone micro chipped by 2017. They are already putting these things in animals, and one of the pretenses that will be used to make people accept this is to keep track of terrorists.
If you know Christ, there is no reason whatsoever to be afraid.
Any thoughts on why Babylon is missing from the list ?shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach AdonaiDo you think the war will occur before we withdraw from Iraq?
Thank you for sharing your experience. I too for many years took Dispensationalism and pretribulationism as unchallengeable Gospel truth. Then I finally looked at the biblical passages objectively and concluded that it had no basis in Scripture.
A quarter of a century ago I would dismiss any criticisms of Dispensationalism as ignorance of true biblical teaching. Lest anyone dismiss me as “not properly grounded in Scripture” I might mention that I have an earned doctorate in theology, have taught on the college level, and have published writings on the subject.
I advise anyone seriously interested in biblical prophecy to clear their bookshelves of the sensationalist prophecy books and take an unbiased look at what the Bible actually says.
The last reference to the church is rev 3:14.
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach Adonai
If one believes Bible prophecy should be taken literally, the area now called Iraq is mentioned prominently as having a role to play in history yet to unfold.
Although Saddam Hussein began rebuilding a city on the site of ancient Babylon, it is at this time many, many years away from even having a chance of again becoming a great world commercial and/or religious center. It is scarcely more than a tiny, token symbol of the magnificence that once occupied that area.
The war that removed Hussein perhaps disrupted any rebuilding effort. But some prophecy watchers suggest that with Saddam removed, the world community might think to come together and make the present effort to rebuild Babylon into a true symbol for world unity and world peace. A major city with towering skyscrapers could, with today’s technologies, be erected in mere months. Some believe that even the United Nations might be moved to a rebuilt Babylon as a gesture of world community and harmony.
So, based on the fact that the city of Babylon has yet to become a viable entity, and the fact that the location of Babylon is in Iraq, and the Scriptures don't indicate that Iraq will be involved in Ezekiel's prophecy, I don't think that Babylon will be among the hordes that attempt to invade Israel.
Do you think the war will occur before we withdraw from Iraq?
I really don't think so. Ezekiel's prophecy indicates that the nations that will march to Israel do so to attack an Israel that is "dwelling safely" and a nation of "unwalled villages". This seems to indicate that Israel feels secure enough to not have walls around it like it does now which leads some to believe that this war will occur after the Antichrist signs the seven year peace treaty with Israel which leads them to feel safe and secure.
Scripturally it begins at, or shortly after, the return of Christ. It continues for a thousand years.
I had never heard that! What was it about the 1800's that so many false prophets got so many so lost. I don't know about this woman but this was the age of false prophets who started the unique American tradition of cult religions claiming to have finally gotten to the truth. I know there are plenty of pre-tribs out there (including my family) who are in Christ so don't shoot me for saying they are all cult members.
1. In the Ezekiel invasion there are several allies mentioned and they are limited in number while others stand in opposition. In the campaign of Armegeddon (discussed in Rev.) all nations are united against Israel without exception.
1. Gog and Magog are mentioned in Revelation 20 and as previously noted they attack Israel after the thousand years.
2. This is NOT part of the battle of Armageddon. The battle of Armageddon is mentioned in Revelation 16 and picks up again in chapter 19. This takes place just before the return of Christ.
3. Ezekiel 38 is an expansion of the events in Revelation 20 occurring a thousand years after the return of Christ.
4. Zechariah 14 is a description of the return of Christ and is the same events that occur in Rev. 16 and 19.
So basically the prophecies regarding Gog and Magog have nothing to do with events leading up to the return of Christ. Keep a watchful eye on events of course but don't look toward the Gog and Magog prophecies to see if they match up to current events because they won't.
I'm not absolutely convinced one way or the other, so the following is just MY opinion, take it for what its worth.
I lean that Gog/Magog is pre trib.
1-The trib starts at the peace agreement with the AntiChrist.
The Bible does tell us the peace agreement is a 7 year pact (who makes a peace pact for 7 years? If I'd sign for peace, I want it unending, not for a set period of time, and after that...)
2-Why make a peace agreement unless you're at war?
I believe the Antichrist will offer a peace plan to Israel after the Russo/Islam coalition attacks and is destroyed.
Imagine a nation (Israel) of 6 million people population being attacked by Iran-65 million population, Russia-142 million, and whatever the other countries have. That would have to be terrifying.
The attack upon Israel is a quick surprise attack, and Israel will be afraid of another one.
Look at how the world hates and attacks Israel today, for defending itself from rocket attacks. For using "disproportionate" force. There will be a majority of people who refuse to believe that God defended Israel. They won't understand how the invaders will be destroyed, but I think they could blame Israel for this destruction, of using "disproportionate".
I'm not saying this WILL be the scenario, but it does make sense in light of whats happening today.
3-There are numerous verses talking with exact numbers of Antichrists reign. Midway through the trib, the AC is fatally wounded and healed. From this point on, he speaks blasphemy, and sets himself up as God, and causes the abomination of desolation in the temple.
The Bible doesn't talk about anything of the AC before the peace pact. It seems the AC's reign begins at the peace agreement. After the peace agreement, other time frames are mentioned.
In the end, the battle of Armegeddon, the entire world gathers in the valley of Megeddo, or the Jezreel Valley, led by the AC, against Israel.
As far as Gog Magog, there are the nations that attack Israel. There are none that defend Israel. If there were, it would take away from Gods glory, as HE is the one that defends Israel.
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