Is the Bible God's Word? (Do you believe the Bible is the only word of God?)

http://www.jamaat.net/bible/Bible1-3.html ^ | Ahmed Deedat

[Stourme]

THE CATHOLIC BIBLE

Holding the "Douay" Roman Catholic Version of the Bible aloft in my hand, I ask, "Do YOU accept THIS Bible as the Word of God?" For reasons best known to themselves, the Catholic Truth Society have published their Version of the Bible in a very short, stumpy form. This Version is a very odd proportion of the numerous Versions in the market today. The Christian questioner is taken aback. "What Bible is that?" he asks. "Why, I thought you said that there was only ONE Bible!" I remind him. "Y-e-s," he murmurs hesitantly, "but what Version is that?" "Why, would that make any difference?" I enquire. Of course it does, and the professional preacher knows that it does. He is only bluffing with his "ONE Bible" claim.

The Roman Catholic Bible was published at Rheims in 1582, from Jerome's Latin Vulgate and reproduced at Douay in 1609. As such the RCV (Roman Catholic Version) is the oldest Version that one can still buy today. Despite its antiquity, the whole of the Protestant world, including the "cults"* condemn the RCV because it contains seven extra "books" which they contemptuously refer to as the "apocrypha" i.e. of DOUBTFUL AUTHORITY. Notwithstanding the dire warning contained in the Apocalypse, which is the last book in the RCV (renamed as "Revelation" by the Protestants), it is "revealed":

". . . If any man shall add to these things (or delete) God shall add unto him the plagues written in this Book." (Revelation 22:18-19)

But who cares! They do not really believe! The Protestants have bravely expunged seven whole books from their Book of God! The outcasts are:

The Book of Judith
The Book of Tobias
The Book of Baruch
The Buck of Esther, etc.
* This disparaging title is given by the orthodox to Jehovah's Witnesses, the Seventh Day Adventists and a thousand other sects and denominations with whom they do not see eye to eye.

[AmericanArchConservative]

Regardless of whether or not the JW’s and the Mormons are labeled as cults (and rightly so), it does not have much to do with the validity of the Bible, with or without the books contained in the Catholic version.

There are well presented arguments which run both ways (unlike the volumes of utter crap which try to justify the heresies of Charles Taze Russel, convicted liar - or of Joseph Smith, False prophet and fornicating profligate...) and they can be kept running in a civil vein.

We do not need, as Protestants or Catholics, to allow some moose-slime “scholar” (again, like a mormon prophet, there is no such thing) to enter the fray, for their intent is pretty easy to guess at: Divide and conquer.

As Orthodox Christian believers of Protestant and Catholic tradition, WE will set the tone and the parameters for our own debates - including when and where to hold them.

Personally, I vote for postponement of significant theological discussion until after the muzzie menace has been summarily eradicated.

Once the last of the bloodthirsty mohammadans is lying dead six feet under, then we can dissect doctrine and canonical literature until Jesus comes back to settle it once and for all.

A.A.C.

[AmericanArchConservative]

Ahhhh, you can do that at your own peril. Mormonism is a cult - plain and simple and I ought to know I am married to one.

I have researched that fraud-mongering mountain of fabrications for more than 15 years and found nothing yet to adequately support its veracity - most especially not its original raison d’etre (the alleged worldwide “apostasy”, for which the existence of the Eastern and Roman churches are living contradictions!)

Calling other poeple “cults” may not be a pretty business, but somebody somewhere has to do it - everyone who opens there mouth claiming to speak for G_d, to have divine illumination from Him explaining previously misunderstood, or not at all understood passages, everyone who has labelled their particular group of believers as the ONLY elect and the ONLY ones who actually constituted “Zion” and therefore rightful possessors of the inheritance of the Kingdom...

They cannot possibly ALL be correct.

Most especially and notably not when SO many of them

A) Have had their predictions/prophecies DISPROVEN summarily and out of hand by the hands of time (like Joseph Smith for example) which then INVALIDATES the speaker as giving an earthly vox humana for G_d

or B) They are in many cases in utter contradiction of one another. Like the 144,000 elect which the Jehovah’s Witless have claimed can only come from their number - and only those adhering tightly to very narrow doctrinal constraints...

Once a man speaks and claims the mantle of “prophet” to be upon himself, he is pretty well committed. There are clear cut standards laid out in the new testament which define who can and who cannot be a bishop or an elder of a church body - husband of but one wife, temperate not given to strong drink controlling his life, obedient children, and many other traits listed.

Joseph Smith for example, roving hoodwinker and charlatan, convicted in court of water-witching and attempting to use a spirit medium - did not ever once even meet those standards - let alone G_d’s much higher standards for being an acceptable prophet.

Jeremiah, Isaiah, Nahum, Joshua, Jonah - Prophets!

Joseph Smith - lying deceitful garbage collector/purveyor.

I mean - who can forget his memorable and radically incorrect sworn courtroom testimony about his interpretation of the meaning of Egyptian hieroglyphics - what he laughably called “old egyptian” - wherein he proved himself (not for the first time) to be a liar, an ignoramus, and a self-aggrandizing blowhard.

Charles Taze Russell who started the “new Dawn” movement...Numerous prophecies given concerning the new Jerusalem (like Smith’s new Zion predictions) none of which EVER came true.

It would be one thing if Smith or Russell fell short on one prediction out of dozens or hundreds made (although by biblical standards, only 100% accuracy is acceptable...) but they each batted ZERO on all prophecies of consequence or meaning. It must have hurt to be wrong - but they seldom ever let it show, bravado being what it was...

I am quite comfortable calling them cults either by modern or older standards. I have the evidence to back up the contentions - along with a pretty good flameproof suit!

A.A.C.

[AmericanArchConservative]

There is no proof. Only the testimonies of the deluded who rise up sunday after sunday in ward, temple or stake center and say “I know this church is true because...”

They are leaning heavily on the notion of establishing credibility for the whole array of doctrine and text and so on - on the basis of affirmation of those who are decidely NOT theologians...and whose testimonies as witnesses, cannot be vouchsafed to guarantee such assertions.

They are mostly trying to convince themselves that they are doing the right thing and in the right place.

It rings hollow. I have witnessed it too much not to recognise that.

A.A.C.

[PfluegerFishin]

I choose not to take anyone that calls other people "cults" seriously.

what is your motive for posting this. Your previous posts are plainly pro LDS - what are you trying to accomplish

[Elsie]

The LDS 8th Article of Faith: We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.

Ohhh such wise words.

I'm soooo glad I have the Book of Mormon to go with the Bible.

 

 

 

 

Genesis 3:1

 

  Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say, `You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?" 

 

Ohhh such a wise question!

 

 4.  "You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman.
 5.  "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

 

 

His tactics haven't changed a bit!

 

1. Introduce DOUBT...

2. 'Explain' what GOD said...

 

 

 

 

 

[safisoft]

Revelations

Getting the title right is always impoertant in a discussion. There is no book of "Revelations" in the Bible. The Greek, Latin, and English all have the name in the singular form. It is an important point because the title comes from the first chapter. The book is not a book of "revelations" - it is a book of a "revelation" of the Messiah. The full title is, "The Revelation of Messiah Jesus."

[Elsie]

* This disparaging title is given by the orthodox to Jehovah's Witnesses, the Seventh Day Adventists and a thousand other sects and denominations with whom they do not see eye to eye.

APOSTATE!!!

This disparaging title is given by the MORMON's from SLC to ANY one who is NOT a MORMON from SLC; but ESPECIALLY for THESE:

 

 

 

 

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The reason there are so many MORMON Organizations  is because the Bible is subject to every spin that comes down the pike,

along with disagreements about all the other 'scriptures' that the faithful are SUPPOSED to BELIEVE in: BoM, D&C's, PGP, BoA... ad nauseum.

 

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"We do not indorse the teachings of any so-called Mormons or Latter Day Saints, which are in conflict with the gospel of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, as taught in the New Testament and the Book of Mormon. They have departed in a great measure from the faith of the Church of Christ as it was first established, by heeding revelations given through Joseph Smith, who, after being called of God to translate his sacred word--the Book of Mormon--drifted into many errors and gave many revelations to introduce doctrines, ordinances and offices in the church, which are in conflict with Christ's teachings."

-- David Whitmer (an elder in the Church of Christ), 1887

 

Today, there are as many as 100 organizations claiming to be a part of the Latter Day Saint movement, most centered in Utah or Missouri. Most regard their own group, however small, to be the only legitimate Christian church. Most of these organizations are very small, but overall, but the second largest denomination, the Community of Christ, reports over 200,000 members.

Just a sampling...........

• The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (a.k.a. The Church of Jesus Christ, and the LDS) is by far the largest Mormon denomination. It is a continuation of the "Rocky Mountain Saint" branch of Mormonism.
• The more liberal Community of Christ (formerly called the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints) is second in size. It is a continuation of the "Prairie Saint" movement. Although generally referred to as "Mormons," they do not use the term themselves, because of its association with polygamy and because they believe the name was not part of the original church.
• Many additional small Mormon faith groups, including:
  • Aaronic Order: unknown membership; 6 centers; 20 ministers
  • Apostolic United Brethren: about 7,000 members. They disagree with the LDS' decision to allow ordination of African-Americans and allowing women to assume leadership positions.
  • Church of Christ (Fetting/Bronson): about 2000 members
  • Church of Christ (Temple Lot): about 2400 members
  • The Church of Christ "With The Elijah Message," established anew in 1929 12,500 members worldwide
  • Church of Jesus Christ (Bickertonite): about 2700 members
  • The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints: about 11 million members
  • The Community of Christ: about 250,000 members. This denomination was formerly known as the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints -- the "RLDS Church". It was formed in 1860 by remnants of the original church who did not make the trek to Utah. They reject certain beliefs and practices of the LDS church, including marriage sealing for eternity; they allow both men and women into the priesthood; their services are open to the public. They have about 250,000 members.
  • United Order Effort: a polygamy practicing group, excommunicated by the main LDS church,  of perhaps 10,000 members
  • The Restoration Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. It split from the Reorganized Church in 1991 because of the latter's liberal theology. It is centered in Independence, Missouri, and had an estimated membership of 2,500 in mid-1996. They publish a periodical "The Restoration Advocate" six times a year.

 

And the LATEST in the news: FUNDAMENTALIST Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

[Elsie]

I choose not to take anyone that calls other people "cults" seriously.

From a GENTILES point of veiw, I guess if a PERSON were a member of such a cult; I'd ignore any Bible verses they would post, too.

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Jude 1:3

  Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

 

 

Romans 6:17
   But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were entrusted.

 

 Romans 15:4
   For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.

 

 Romans 16:17
   I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them.

 

1 Corinthians 4:17
   For this reason I am sending to you Timothy, my son whom I love, who is faithful in the Lord. He will remind you of my way of life in Christ Jesus, which agrees with what I teach everywhere in every church.

 

1 Corinthians 11:1-2
 1.  Follow my example, as I follow the example of Christ.
 2.  I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the teachings,  just as I passed them on to you.

 

Ephesians 4:14
   Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming.

 

2 Thessalonians 2:15
   So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings  we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.

 

2 Thessalonians 3:6
   In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers, to keep away from every brother who is idle and does not live according to the teaching  you received from us.

 

1 Timothy 1:3-4
 3.  As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrines any longer
 4.  nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. These promote controversies rather than God's work--which is by faith.

 

1 Timothy 2:7
   And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle--I am telling the truth, I am not lying--and a teacher of the true faith to the Gentiles.

 

1 Timothy 4:6
   If you point these things out to the brothers, you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, brought up in the truths of the faith and of the good teaching that you have followed.

 

 2 Timothy 1:13
  What you heard from me, keep as the pattern of sound teaching, with faith and love in Christ Jesus.

 

2 Timothy 2:2
  And the things you have heard me say in the presence of many witnesses entrust to reliable men who will also be qualified to teach others.

Hebrews 13:8-9
 8.  Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.
 9.  Do not be carried away by all kinds of strange teachings. It is good for our hearts to be strengthened by grace, not by ceremonial foods, which are of no value to those who eat them.

 

2 John 1:10
   If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him.

 

Titus 2:1
  You must teach what is in accord with sound doctrine.

[Elsie]

And since it teaches divine healing, salvation through the precious Blood of Jesus, and the Baptism of the Holy Ghost with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues, I also believe in those things.

Now we get to the WHY of this post:

Get those who put different emphasis on different verses FIGHTING - then the 'voice of reason' will step in and step us straight.

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1 Corinthians 12:29-31
29. Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles?
30. Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret?
31. But eagerly desire the greater gifts. And now I will show you the most excellent way.

[Elsie]

And where is the proof of the inspiration of the Book of Mormon or the accuracy of the translation?

Evil men have supressed the EVIDENCE of truthfulness by their vile concoctions!!

http://images.google.com/images?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=HPIC,HPIC:2005-18,HPIC:en&q=antacid&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi

[Elsie]

Why did you change the title of this article?

He is a MORMON - He has his reasons.

(The above was NOT mindreading)

[Elsie]

What peculiar Mormon doctrines are taught in the Book of Mormon that are not taught in the Bible?

The BoM is a weak sister for weird stuff.

Try THIS:

Doctrines & Covenants 89:7
And, again, strong drinks are not for the belly, but for the washing of your bodies.

[fatboy]

Steelfish said: “For those really interested in the Catholic Church, I recommend “On the Way to Jesus Christ” by Joseph Ratzinger (Benedict XVI) the foremost theological scholar of his time, that TIME called a walking theological encyclopedia”.

Endorsed by TIME! Can you believe that? WOW!!!

Warning: don’t get in my way as I make my trip to the bookstore to pick me up this gem. Is it possible to get the author to sign my copy?

Tom

[Elsie]

What SIMILAR Mormon doctrines are taught in the Book of Mormon that ARE taught in the Bible?

Try THESE:

 1 Timothy 3:2-3
 2.  Now the overseer must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,
 3.  not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money.

 

1 Timothy 3:12
   A deacon must be the husband of but one wife and must manage his children and his household well.

 

 Titus 1:6
   An elder must be blameless, the husband of but one wife, a man whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient.

 

THE BOOK OF JACOB
THE BROTHER OF NEPHI

CHAPTER 2

 

  24 Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.
  25 Wherefore, thus saith the Lord, I have led this people forth out of the land of Jerusalem, by the power of mine arm, that I might raise up unto me a righteous branch from the fruit of the loins of Joseph.
  26 Wherefore, I the Lord God will not suffer that this people shall do like unto them of old.
  27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;
  28 For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.
  29 Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes.
  30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.
  31 For behold, I, the Lord, have seen the sorrow, and heard the mourning of the daughters of my people in the land of Jerusalem, yea, and in all the lands of my people, because of the wickedness and abominations of their husbands.
  32 And I will not suffer, saith the Lord of Hosts, that the cries of the fair daughters of this people, which I have led out of the land of Jerusalem, shall come up unto me against the men of my people, saith the Lord of Hosts.

 

 

However, BOTH of these books of SCRIPTURE did not have any effect on ..

 

 

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Smith, Young, Taylor, Pratt, Snow, Kimball, Woodruff ...

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Founder and early leaders of the LDS Organization

[Elsie]

That is not a doctrine peculiar to the Mormons.

Surely you know that a QUESTION to us is, like to politicians, merely a launching point to pontificate on other subjects.

--MormonDude(*)

[Elsie]

As a Christian, I object to this corruption of the intent of the original article...

Now if we can get Headquarters to FIX the Joseph Smith 'translation' of the KJV!

[Elsie]

Would you please change the title back to what it should be ?

NO!

Leave it to show a certain type of 'debating' style!

[Elsie]

The title has been repaired. The rephrase was put in parantheses behind the title which is customary for poster’s comments.

Well, at least the EVIDENCE for what happened is still embedded in the body of this thread.

[Elsie]

My title reflects my intent for posting it.

AHhhh...

[Elsie]

Never found another Bible to top it.

Oh?

Just what are your standards to do that?