You wrote:
“Again, I will repeat what I said...This covers it all...”
It doesn’t even come close to covering it all. I asked questions. They are going unanswered by you. I made points. They are going unanswered by you.
“And NO, Christians don’t cooperate with God for their salvation...They REPENT, turn to God...”
Repentence would be cooperation with God’s desire. God wants us to repent after all. Again - and once again this is so far unanswered by you - if we resist God we are damned. Is repentence resisting God? No. So it must be...what?
“You keep changing to your Catholic word, cooperate...”
Again, if “cooperate” is a Catholic word, why do non-Catholics also use it? Also, I didn’t use the word cooperate there. I just said this: “Clearly He did and does. God saves no one against his will. Again, you keep avoiding that fact. “Working together with him [Christ], then, we entreat you not to accept the grace of God in vain.” (2 Corinthians 6:1)
“It doesn’t say cooperate...It says work...”
No, it doesn’t say “work”. It says “Working together”. Why do you deliberately leave off the wod “together”? Are you afraid of that word?
“It says labor...And that is only AFTER you have salvation...”
It says “together”. Why do you keep running from that word? Does it scare you? Are you afraid of that word?
I wrote: “Again, to be consistent, something which no one will accuse you of being in theology, you must have faith (which is more than belief by the way), and acceptance and repentance and committment. Gee, sounds like a lot of work!”
You responded to only one part of that with:
“Yes, it is faith as well...Faith that God can and will save you...”
And - as you avoided mentioning - it is acceptance, repentance, and committment. Again, that sounds like a lot of “work” according to your understanding of things.
“I see what your problem is...You don’t know what Repent means...You think it means penance...Pay your debt and you can be saved...”
No. I don’t believe that at all. Once again, we see that you make things up out of thin air as to what I believe. I do not believe for a single second that you can “Pay your debt and you can be saved...” Why do you feel the need to make things up like that? This must be at least the sixth or seventh time you have completely made up something out of thin air. Penance is NOT about earning salvation or even paying debt toward salvation. Penance is part of repentance but it does not earn grace. Nothing on our part can earn grace.
“Repent is NOT turning from sin...”
Wrong. Repentence IS turning from sin, but it is more than that. Did you see what you did? You deny a truth (what repentence is) in order to propagate your Protestant ideology despite the reality of what repentence is.
“It IS turning your mind and heart to God...You can not turn from sin until God is within you...”
But do you need to do it to be saved? Aren’t you then claiming a work is needed? Again, we see your inconsistent theology.
And the verses you posted only prove cooperation. We cooperate with the works God has begun in us. That’s Catholic theology. Thanks for the assit there Iscool!
“There is nothing you can do to get saved other than believe and have faith...”
And repent, and commit, and - now according to you - cooperate with the works God begins within us. LOL! So much again for consistency on your part!
“Now maybe you think that takes some cooperation (works) on your part, but Jesus is crystal clear that if you do anything to earn or cooperate for salvation, you have fallen from grace...”
No, actually He never says anything like: “Don’t cooperate with Me.” Nor does He ever once say: “Resist Me to be saved.” That’s the lunacy you’re pushing, however. And, of course, rather than dealing with me fairly and honestly, you must create yet another straw man by insinuating that I have said or believed that Jesus taught a man could earn salvation or that our cooperation is what got our salvation.
“And since you guys won’t know til you face the White Throne Judgement whether or not you are saved, you have to keep cooperating (working) thru out your life to attain salvation at the end...Endure to the end...”
Again, you flout scripture. How sad. Doesn’t the Word of God tell us to persevere until the end? Have younever read Hebrews 12:1? How about James 1:25? And did you notice the “doer of acts”?
The Bible is right, and you’re not.
This is easy for me, but so difficult for you. Resisting God doesn’t help you.
“The big difference between you guys and us is:
You work (cooperate) to gain salvation...”
No, we don’t. And again you have to create a straw man and it just won’t work. Why say something that is clearly NOT TRUE? We don’t gain salvation by our cooperation, but we won’t be saved against our will either.
We work because we HAVE salvation...
“One’s acceptable to God, the other isn’t...”
Your ideology isn’t. You don’t even believe we must persevere - but the Bible says otherwise.
The Bible will always say otherwise. You can contradict it all you like, but you can’t change the word.
This is easy for me, but so difficult for you. Resisting God is not helping you. Ignoring the Word of God and denying what it actually says won’t help you either. Still, you’ll keep doing it won’t you? In that, you will persevere won’t you?
Your ideology isn’t. You don’t even believe we must persevere - but the Bible says otherwise.
As usual, you guys take that verse out of context...That verse goes right along with the one that says we must overcome...
But then John throws a monkey wrench into your gears and telss us we have overcome already...
You still don't get it...Jesus has already paid the price...He didn't pay just part of it...He payed all of it...
Jesus has made us Righteous...Sin is not imputed to us...Do we commit sin??? Of course we do...We are filled with the Holy Spirit and He helps us fight the sin...
“There is nothing you can do to get saved other than believe and have faith...”
And repent, and commit,
Nope...Repent is turn to God...I already posted the Greek word and the definition...Commit??? No...God doesn't want you to commit...God wants you to take HIM...He will do a good work in you...You can not do it...And if you commit (anything), it will be as a debt...That's what grace is all about...
Wrong. Repentence IS turning from sin, but it is more than that.
Again you are wrong...Repent is not turn from sin...All you have to do is accept what Jesus offered...
Again, you flout scripture. How sad. Doesn’t the Word of God tell us to persevere until the end? Have younever read Hebrews 12:1? How about James 1:25? And did you notice the “doer of acts”?
Who is Hebrews written to??? Who is James written to???
Acts is a transition book...It started out with everyone under the law...Peter didn't even know Gentiles could come into the fold til ten chapters into the book...
Acts ends up with the gospel of Grace...It's a transition...
But do you need to do it to be saved? Aren’t you then claiming a work is needed?
Not according to God...Turning to God is an act of faith...
I have been following the discussion between you and iscool and I must say that you have an excellent grasp of Catholic theology. It has been a pleasure to read, thank you for taking the time and energy to write such coherent and thought provoking posts.