Your ideology isn’t. You don’t even believe we must persevere - but the Bible says otherwise.
As usual, you guys take that verse out of context...That verse goes right along with the one that says we must overcome...
But then John throws a monkey wrench into your gears and telss us we have overcome already...
You still don't get it...Jesus has already paid the price...He didn't pay just part of it...He payed all of it...
Jesus has made us Righteous...Sin is not imputed to us...Do we commit sin??? Of course we do...We are filled with the Holy Spirit and He helps us fight the sin...
“There is nothing you can do to get saved other than believe and have faith...”
And repent, and commit,
Nope...Repent is turn to God...I already posted the Greek word and the definition...Commit??? No...God doesn't want you to commit...God wants you to take HIM...He will do a good work in you...You can not do it...And if you commit (anything), it will be as a debt...That's what grace is all about...
Wrong. Repentence IS turning from sin, but it is more than that.
Again you are wrong...Repent is not turn from sin...All you have to do is accept what Jesus offered...
Again, you flout scripture. How sad. Doesn’t the Word of God tell us to persevere until the end? Have younever read Hebrews 12:1? How about James 1:25? And did you notice the “doer of acts”?
Who is Hebrews written to??? Who is James written to???
Acts is a transition book...It started out with everyone under the law...Peter didn't even know Gentiles could come into the fold til ten chapters into the book...
Acts ends up with the gospel of Grace...It's a transition...
But do you need to do it to be saved? Aren’t you then claiming a work is needed?
Not according to God...Turning to God is an act of faith...
You wrote:
“Of course you can’t get saved against your will...That’s not even worth a conversation...”
Oh, but it is worth a conversation. If you can’t be saved against your will, then it must be by cooperation.
Now, seeing that it took you half a dozen or more posts to finally admit that a man can’t be saved against his will, I would not be surprised if you try to avoid the import of that point at all costs. Will you merely dismiss your admission? Will you claim it is irrelevant when it is actually at the heart of the matter?
“As usual, you guys take that verse out of context...That verse goes right along with the one that says we must overcome...”
I took nothing out of context and your point just buried you again. If our cooperation is unnecessary, then why must we “overcome” anything? That was your very word - “overcome”. Why “must” we “overcome” anything if we must not “cooperate”?
I thought the Protestant ideal was that we did nothing but “accept” Jesus. Now you’re telling us we must overcome something. Sounds like work to me. And you didn’t even mention God or grace in that overcoming. Interesting.
“But then John throws a monkey wrench into your gears and telss us we have overcome already...”
But James says that we WILL overcome through our endurance - which implies our cooperation with God’s grace. James 1:12:
“Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him.”
Can we endure temptation on our own? No. But we also can’t do it without cooperating with God’s grace.
And notice how I not only mention something from the Bible, but I actually mention the author, the verse and post the verse itself? So far, all we have from you is an assertion about “John [throwing] a monkey wrench”. But, thankfully, I actually know the Bible, and am more than happy to assist you. You are probably referring to 1 John and his five mentionings of overcoming in chapters 2, 4 and 5. Right?
Are you trying to say that these verses which OSAS believers say show assurance of salvation some how work for your argument? Sorry, no chance there. You see, in verse 28 of chapter 2 John says: “And now, little children, abide in Him, that when He appears, we may have confidence and not be ashamed before Him at His coming.”
Notice how John tells the Christians to abide in Christ so they have confidence at the judgment? Doesn’t sound like OSAS to me!
“You still don’t get it...Jesus has already paid the price...He didn’t pay just part of it...He payed all of it...”
Yes, He did. And if I resist His work, I won’t be saved. You see, I get it, but you don’t. You admit a man can’t be saved against his will - and that is OBVIOUSLY THE TRUTH - but you can’t see the rest of the truth - that we must cooperate with God or we will not be saved. God paid the price, but we must accept Him (as you’ve admitted)...and we must believe in Him (as you’ve admitted)...and we must commit to Him (as you might admit) and we must repent of our sins (as you’ve admitted). If that isn’t cooperation with the will of God, what is?
“Jesus has made us Righteous...Sin is not imputed to us...Do we commit sin??? Of course we do...We are filled with the Holy Spirit and He helps us fight the sin...”
Only if we cooperate with that help. God does not force grace on us. You want it both ways. On the one hand, in one post, you claim free will exists, but in another post you act as if God helps us against our will. Which is it?
Also, you just shot yourself in the foot again. Can a man lose the Holy Spirit? If a Spirit filled man renounces Christ and becomes a Hindu is the Spirit still dwelling in him as He once was? I ask for this simple reason: If the Holy Spirit can leave a man because the man’s actions are an offense to God, doesn’t that imply that the man must cooperate with the Holy Spirit to keep that relationship intact and full? You can’t have it both ways. You can’t claim - as I am almost positive you would - that a man through his apostasy can lose the Holy Spirit, but that that same man does not have to cooperate with the Spirit to keep that relationship intact. Apostasy would be the most outrageous form of not cooperating. So wouldn’t cooperating be the bare minimum a man to keep that relationship intact?
Will I have to post the above paragraph a half dozen or so times before you offer a response as happend with my simple point about men not being saved against their own will?
“Nope...Repent is turn to God...I already posted the Greek word and the definition...Commit??? No...God doesn’t want you to commit...God wants you to take HIM...He will do a good work in you...You can not do it...And if you commit (anything), it will be as a debt...That’s what grace is all about...”
So God does good works in men who are not open to Him? To be open to God - to “take Him” as you put it - would require a willingness to cooperate would it not? Again, if God doesn’t save you against your will, then isn’t your cooperation needed?
“Again you are wrong...Repent is not turn from sin...All you have to do is accept what Jesus offered...”
Actually to repent includes turning from sin. Either Christians are supposed to embrace sin (an impossibility and something God would never command us to do) or they are supposed to turn away from sin. There is no chance of it being otherwise. There can be no sincere repentence without a sincere desire to amends one’s ways. Again, we either reject sin or we embrace it. Rejecting it would be part of repentence. Embracing it would be death.
Now, if you actually look in the Bible, this is what you would discover about repentence: In Matthew 3:7–9, John says to the Pharisees: “You brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath about to come? Therefore, bear fruit worthy of repentance.” What can “bear fruit worthy of repentance,” be other than turn away from your previous actions and attitudes? It is a call to turn away from sin. Sincere repentance requires turning away from sin. John makes this all the more clear when he tells them in verse 8 or 9 that their lists of ancestors won’t help them in this. THEY must do something. THEY must turn away from the sins.
I had written:
Again, you flout scripture. How sad. Doesn’t the Word of God tell us to persevere until the end? Have younever read Hebrews 12:1? How about James 1:25? And did you notice the “doer of acts”?
You wrote [without answering any of my questions of course]: “Who is Hebrews written to??? Who is James written to???”
Who do you think? I asked you 4 questions and you answer with 2. Is that how you expect to get out of your corner? Is that how you expect to evade my questions perhaps? How desperate you might be about now, for this is easy for me, but for you so difficult. Again, Hebrews 12:1 - no matter who it is written to - tells us to persevere until the end. James 1:25 - no matter who it is written to - tells us to persevere. And we also saw today that 1 John 2:28 tells us we must abide in Christ so that we have confidence at our Last Judgment.
The scriptures are mounting against you. You did not list a single verse in your post. You have tacitly admitted the scriptures are against you.
“Acts is a transition book...It started out with everyone under the law...Peter didn’t even know Gentiles could come into the fold til ten chapters into the book...”
Almighty God revealed to Peter what he needed to know when he needed to know it in that regard. That belongs to the sovereignty of Almighty God. It is His alone. Still there was but one Gospel even if it were only preached to one people at that time, and there remained one Gospel even when it was later preached to more than one people. There is ONE Lord, ONE Faith, and ONE baptism.
“Acts ends up with the gospel of Grace...It’s a transition...”
No. Jewish Christians were saved by grace. Gentile Christians were saved by grace. There was only ONE Gospel, but two peoples to receive it. There was no transition from one Gospel to another. Both peoples needed Christ and needed grace to be saved and needed to cooperate with that grace to persevere. Jews had an advantage in that they already knew the history and doctrine of Judaism. But that did not preclude the salvation of Gentiles - for grace works on all people who cooperate with it. Nor did the inclusion of Gentile Christians demand a new or different Gospel. All were saved by Christ and His grace and all needed to cooperate with Christ and His grace or else they were damned forever.
“Not according to God...Turning to God is an act of faith...”
Yes, and if it is sincere it would include turning away from sin and cooperating with God.
This is easy for me, but increasingly difficult for you. You no longer even cite the scriptures.