Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: Iscool

You wrote:

“The Mosaic law is all inclusive...It is not just the ceremonial law...It includes the Moral law (10 Commandments) as well as the social law...”

Not in the way St. Paul is using it in Romans 3. He clearly refers to circumcision. Circumcision was a ceremonial law and not one of the Ten Commandments. Christ Himself said we must keep the commandments of His Father. I trust Christ and Paul more than I trust you.

“This is proven by multitudes of scripture including:
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.”

As is typical, you misunderstand. I am not surprised that a Protestant wouldn’t understand the Bible. That’s to be expected. No one can earn righteousness through obeying God. That is essentially what many Jews believed. Nonetheless we must obey the Natural Law and that includes the Ten Commandments. Even you believe that you must not murder people, right? Even you believe you must not steal, right? Or do you believe it is okay to murder or steal or worship false gods or commit adultery?

“Of course, one of the Ten Commandments...So if you live by any one of the Ten Commandments thinking this will get you salvation, you are condemned to live by and be judged of all the Commandments...”

Thankfully that is not what Catholics believe or do. We believe you must obey the Ten Commandments, but that we can not earn anything by obeying them. We are saved by grace, but sin (such as violating the Commandments) separates us from God and His grace.

“Wrong...This puts you under the Mosaic law...”

No. Cooperation is essential. Are you honestly saying that a man can resist God but will be saved against his will? That would be moronic on your part to assert that. God does not save ANYONE against his will. Only those whose will is attuned to God’s own will will be saved. It’s just that simple.

“True...But that is not the same as cooperating with God...”

Of course it is. Did you choose God? You did if you honestly consider yourself to be “born-again” as Protestants commonly claim. If you chose Him, then rationally you must be trying to cooperate with Him and His grace in your life. Otherwise you are a rebel and are resisting God. Which is it? There are no other alternatives. Either you cooperate with God or you rebel and resist Him. Make your choice and be intellectually honest from now on. Those who wish to be saved cooperate with God. They do not resist Him.

“You mis-interpret the verse...The verse DOES NOT SAY to work for your own salvation...”

I didn’t misrepresent the verse in the least. That’s how it reads in the PROTESTANT ESV, and in the PROTESTANT KJV, and in the PROTESTANT ASV, and in the PROTESTANT Darby Translation, and in the PROTESTANT NKJV, and in the PROTESTANT 21st Century KJV, and in the PROTESTANT Young’s Literal Translation (slightly different word order but exact same words and meaning), and in the PROTESTANT Holman Christian Standard Bible.

Now, if you think all of those Protestant scholars were wrong, too bad. They’re all in your camp, you deal with them.

“It says be sure you have salvation...It says God is within you...I’m (Paul) not here to guide you so study the scripture, lead Holy lives in my absence...”

No. The verse means what it says. It always amazes me when Protestants thump their chests about sola scriptura and then run from the Bible when actual verses come out against their peculiar Protestant views.

“Cooperate is such a vague word, you can use it to identify most anything...”

No, actually you can’t. But what you can do - and what you are doing - is trying to dismiss the idea of cooperation by insisting it can be too vague an idea rather than demonstrating from scripture that cooperation is wrong. Gee, why is that?

“But no, you don’t cooperate with God...You believe in Him...You accept Him as your Saviour...”

Accepting Him would be COOPERATION there, bud.

Also, you need to remember the rest of that verse:

12Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, 13for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose.

So, God works in us so that we can cooperate with His will to accomplish His good purpose.

God calls us to cooperation all the time:

“We know that in everything God works for good with those who love him, who are called according to his purpose.” (Romans 8:28)

And how do you explain away this verse:

“Working together with him [Christ], then, we entreat you not to accept the grace of God in vain.” (2 Corinthians 6:1)

Sure sounds like cooperation with God to me. What’s it sound like to you when we are called to be “working together with” God?

Case Closed.


127 posted on 01/03/2009 10:10:47 AM PST by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 126 | View Replies ]


To: vladimir998
Not in the way St. Paul is using it in Romans 3. He clearly refers to circumcision. Circumcision was a ceremonial law and not one of the Ten Commandments. Christ Himself said we must keep the commandments of His Father. I trust Christ and Paul more than I trust you.

You trust Paul in Chap three but NOT in chapter seven??? In seven he says the law is the moral law...The Ten Commandments...And here is clarification...

Gal 5:3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

The WHOLE law, inclusive...If you think you are justified by doing something, you are fallen from grace...Simple as that...

You pick a single verse out of one chapter...And try to use that for your doctrine and dogma

That's not the way you study scripture...Compare scripture with scripture and you will get God's interpretation...

Hey, I just noticed something very telling, maybe...Look at dogma spelled backwards...AM GOD...Very interesting...

128 posted on 01/03/2009 4:27:15 PM PST by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 127 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson