Are Catholics Born Again? (Discussion is applicable to Orthodox and Mainline Protestants as well)

“So what? Naturally, people want to convert you. They cite the scripture to you? Learn to cite back. I did. The Protestant beliefs are not consistent with scripture, Catholic beliefs are. Read up and fight.”

I guess that’s where we differ. I feel no need to defend my religious beliefs; nor do I intend to try to convert people via an exchange of scriptural passages. That’s usually just gamesmanship.

If someone is truly searching for meaning, that’s one thing — and not what I’m talking about. Most people, however, are just proselytizing and have little interest in any but their own interpretation of various passages.

I don’t enjoy being accosted merely because someone is enthusiastic about having been “saved.”

But that’s another subject entirely.

I feel no need to defend my religious beliefs; nor do I intend to try to convert people via an exchange of scriptural passages. That’s usually just gamesmanship

Two things about that. First, I was reacting to your irritation toward the proselytizers. That is generally unfounded, as Christians are called to proselytize. So it becoems your duty to at least point out that the Catholic Church has existed for 2000 years with a different from his understadning of John 3:5, and that you trust your Church better than his pastor on that. This will not require a doctorate in theology to say. Certainly, you might want to add that the very premise of arguing from scripture alone is unscriptural.

Second, if you find proselytizing irritating, wait till you see persecution, and that, I think, is just around the corner.

” First, I was reacting to your irritation toward the proselytizers. That is generally unfounded, as Christians are called to proselytize.

I don’t believe so. Christians are called upon to live their lives as Christians, which is in itself giving evidence of the teachings. Knocking on doors and accosting people at work is not a requirement, imo.

That doesn’t mean, as I said before, that a discussion of beliefs and reasons isn’t a wonderful thing, provided it’s in information-gathering mode and not just scriptural jai-alai.

“...it becoems your duty to at least point out that the Catholic Church has existed for 2000 years....”

I haven’t said that I was a Catholic, but I’d be happy to point that out, if asked.

Knocking on doors and accosting people at work is not a requirement

Indeed, -- but at the same time I cannot be irritated if someone interprets the Grand Commission that way.

I like to tell this story. Two Mormon teenager boys appeared at our door on bikes. I said that we were both Church going Christians, I was Catholic and my wife was Protestant (Baptist) at the time. They politely asked when it would be possible to witness to us both and assured me that they were not going to drag down our faith. I asked them to come Saturday afternoon, and they showed up. We had a pleasant conversation, they explained how the Mormon faith was different, and quoted some canonical scripture where they thought their Christology is more correct, then showed the Book of Mormon and gave us the outline of Joseph Smith's revelations. Ann and I expressed why we remain sceptical and we pointed out that the scripture translation they used was different from both King James and Douay. They said that this discussion was over their heads technically and that they could send someone better equipped to argue with us. We told them that it would be mutual waste of time.

Before departing, they asked us to sing a hymn for us, and they sang it, beautifully, a capella, with their breaking boy voices.

Here is the point of it: these kids were admirable. I wish my kids had the courage of their conviction to go door to door like that. We should learn from them, -- not their doctrines but their character.

This encounter made a deep impression on my wife Ann, especially. It showed us how easy it is to construct mythical theology out of a few misunderstood Bible verses. She was firmly on her way to become Catholic after that, and she came to the Catholic Chruch last Easter.

I am very thankful to these boys. It showed us the mystery of faith in its most fragile, where a bit of fake authority and a bit of fake history adds up to severe yet deeply held heresy. It made us better Catholics.

“Here is the point of it: these kids were admirable.”

No quarrel here: they were fulfilling the mandate of their particular religion to do this. Mormons are often in my neighborhood doing that part of their mission work.

I, too, admire their steadfastness. Unlike you, however, I’m not interested in the exchanges that will change neither of our minds.

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