Posted on 12/31/2008 4:38:01 AM PST by Huber
Saul never met Jesus.
And they don’t accept the fact that the word “alone” was added to the Bible in the phrase, faith “alone” by Luther.
Look it up.
I have my reservations that keep me out of the Latin church, and the Orthodox - try as I may - befuddle me. But on this, where both agree - I think they read the text correctly.
You'll never know til you crack open a bible...
“...and the Orthodox - try as I may - befuddle me.”
:)
Good article.
I would assert it is also the fundamentalist position regarding baptism.
If one becomes adversarial, it is easy to imagine believers who are fallen away in misunderstanding both as Protestants and as Catholics by imputing wrong thinking on their group. For example, the initial regeneration of the human spirit by God the Holy Spirit is agreed by believers.
Some Protestants will attack Catholics as adversaries, thinking the Catholic doctrine is only focused on a ritual and the water itself is the object of faith that is regenerating the spirit. Meanwhile, some Catholics will focus on some fringe Protestant groups who place the object of their faith on a religious experience as opposed to simple faith through Christ. Both views by themselves are inaccurate as well described in the article.
If I recall correctly, there are some 7 different types of baptism in Scripture. Baptism is simply an identification of something with another thing.
For example, in 1Cor 10:1-6, there is a baptism of Moses, and the Jews are identified with Moses crossing the Red Sea under the cloud. Neither the Jews nor Moses got wet, but both were baptized. The Jews were baptized unto Moses and Moses under the cloud as being baptized with Jesus Christ.
1Co 10:1-6
(1) Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
(2) And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
(3) And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
(4) And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
(5) But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
(6) Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
The spiritual meat and drink for all the Jews and Moses, all came from Christ.
A 2nd type of baptism is the baptism of Christ with the Cross as recorded in Matt 20:20-29 (also backed up in 1Pet 2:24 and 2Cor 5:21)
(22) But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.
(23) And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.
There, our Lord Christ Jesus is identified with the Cross. He also refers to the death of the old man, which we are also identified with when we are baptized through Him. Again, no water is involved in this baptism.
A 3rd type of baptism is the baptism of the Holy Spirit entering the believer into union with God the Son, our Lord and Savior, Christ Jesus. (1stCor 12:13, Rom 6:1-10, Acts 1:4-5)
1stCor 12:(12) For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
(13) For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
(14) For the body is not one member, but many.
A 4th type of baptism is the baptism by fire, where unbelievers are baptized by fire. ( Lk 3:16-7; Mt 3:11-2; 2 Thes 1:7-9; Mt 25:31,33).
A 5th, 6th and 7th type of baptisms are ritual wet baptisms where the water represents something.
In the baptism of John, the water represents the Kingdom of God. Mt 3:6-11; Jn 1:25-33
In the baptism of Jesus, the water represented the Plan of God for the First Advent by sending the Son to the Cross and the acceptance of His Will by the Son entering the water. Matt 3:13-17
In the Church Age, water represents the baptism of the Holy Spirit, making them members of the royal family of God. We are identified with Christ in His death, burial and resurrection, (Acts 2:38,41; 8:36,38; 16:15,33)
I have. He didn’t.
::Sigh!:: What an lonely place this forum is going to be without wideawake!
*Rolling eyes........*
Breath-taking!
Act 9:3-5 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest:
The Catholic, then, should do more than simply point to his baptism; he should discuss his living faith, trust and love of Christ; his desire to grow in sanctity and conformity to Christ; and his total dependence on Christ for salvation. These are integral to the new life of the Holy Spirit that baptism bestows.
In other words, the enfeebled Protestant mindset needs to be penetrated broadly. It is not sufficient to explain any particular scripture on a particular topic, -- unless the idea of dividing living people into saved and unsaved is overturned, the faith of the fathers will remain closed to them.
Suggested reading: SALVATION PAST, PRESENT, AND FUTURE
In other words, any individual who claims to have heard the voice of Jesus is an eligible prophet/contributor?
“In other words, any individual who claims to have heard the voice of Jesus is an eligible prophet/contributor?”
Any individual? This is the biblical record of the Apostle Paul found in chapter 9 of the book of Acts? Are you questioning the veracity of this account?
Are you questioning the judgement of Christ?
No. Your reading of Him. You responded to someone else that Saul (Paul) never met Christ. Acts records for us the FACT of their meeting. This event is recorded in the Bible for, among other things, our instruction (2Tim. 3:16)
No, Saul claimed to have met a vision of Christ, not the physical person/being.
Act 9:3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
Act 9:4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
Act 9:5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
Is Paul’s encounter with the Lord (as recorded in the Book of Acts) any less real, any less substantive, any less instructive, of lesser quality/value/worth than any encounter than that of any other person living or dead, saint or sinner, jew or gentile has ever had in the history of the human race or the church?
In fact, Paul’s experience with the Lord may just be the greatest of all human experiences with the Lord Jesus Christ (till He comes for His saints). While Peter James and John “beheld His glory” on the mount of transfiguration, Paul’s experiences with the Lord was with the risen, glorified Lord after “He put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself (Remember when He spoke to Mary outside the tomb, “Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father:...”)
And what of Joan of Arc’s experience? Haven’t read that addition in my edition.
The Book of the Acts, which contains Paul’s encounter with Christ is part of the Canon of Scripture. Joan of Arc’s life-story is not. What “edition” are you talking about? I notice in all your posts you never answer any questions put to you, however, let me pose a few more:
Do you ever read your Bible?
Have you ever read the Book of Acts?
Have you ever read Acts chapter 9?
Today’s a holiday...He/she probably can’t buy one til tomorrow...
As you know, Paul’s ministry was to the Gentiles...The Gentile church...Likely which some Catholics are a part of...
But for someone who claims to be a Christian and be so void of any knowledge of the apostle Paul’s ministry is mind boggling...
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