Anger over gay marriage vote directed at Mormons

AP via SFGate ^ | 11/12/8 | ERIC GORSKI, AP Religion Writer

[Elsie]

(Pray tell, how do you manage to do that? Do you have your own personal urim & thummim?)

Some can 'peep into a hat' without the hat!

[Elsie]

They should be commended for this.

I agree; but their doctrines are STILL based on two deceiving spirits...

[Elsie]

I have asked you several times to quit replying to me and quit sending me mail. Please quit stalking me.

ANYthing that shows up on FR has the quality of attracting readers; wouldn't you say?

And ANY thing on FR has the RIGHT to be 'responded' to.

I would suggest you IGNORE stuff that upsets you, for you do NOT have the POWER to keep it from showing up at your virtual door.

[Elsie]

 

 

 

 

Genesis 13:13       Now the men of Sodom were wicked and were sinning greatly against the LORD.

Genesis 18:20-21
20. Then the LORD said, "The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous
21. that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know."

Genesis 19:4-7
4. Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom--both young and old--surrounded the house.
5. They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."
6. Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him
7. and said, "No, my friends. Don't do this wicked thing.

 

Psalms 12:8      The wicked freely strut about when what is vile is honored among men.

      More?

 

Isaiah 3:9   The look on their faces testifies against them; they parade their sin like Sodom; they do not hide it. Woe to them! They have brought disaster upon themselves.

2 Peter 2:13b  Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.

 

 

Ezekiel 16:49-50
49. "`Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.
50. They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.

---

---

2 Peter 2

 1.  But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.
 2.  Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
 3.  In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.
 4.  For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell,  putting them into gloomy dungeons  to be held for judgment;
 5.  if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others;
 6.  if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;
 7.  and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless men
 8.  (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)--
 9.  if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment.
 10.  This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the sinful nature  and despise authority.   Bold and arrogant, these men are not afraid to slander celestial beings;
 11.  yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not bring slanderous accusations against such beings in the presence of the Lord.
 12.  But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish.
 13.  They will be paid back with harm for the harm they have done. Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.

---

---

 

But there IS hope!!!

1 Corinthians 6:9-11

 9. Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived:
     Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders
10. nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
11. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

 

---

If you could NOT change, you would be in most pitiful shape.....

Genesis 13:13       Now the men of Sodom were wicked and were sinning greatly against the LORD.

Genesis 18:20-21
20. Then the LORD said, "The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous
21. that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know."

Genesis 19:4-7
4. Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom--both young and old--surrounded the house.
5. They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."
6. Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him
7. and said, "No, my friends. Don't do this wicked thing.

 

Psalms 12:8      The wicked freely strut about when what is vile is honored among men.

      More?

 

Isaiah 3:9   The look on their faces testifies against them; they parade their sin like Sodom; they do not hide it. Woe to them! They have brought disaster upon themselves.

2 Peter 2:13b  Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.

 

 

Ezekiel 16:49-50
49. "`Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.
50. They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.

---

---

2 Peter 2

 1.  But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.
 2.  Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
 3.  In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.
 4.  For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell,  putting them into gloomy dungeons  to be held for judgment;
 5.  if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others;
 6.  if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;
 7.  and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless men
 8.  (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)--
 9.  if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment.
 10.  This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the sinful nature  and despise authority.   Bold and arrogant, these men are not afraid to slander celestial beings;
 11.  yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not bring slanderous accusations against such beings in the presence of the Lord.
 12.  But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish.
 13.  They will be paid back with harm for the harm they have done. Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.

---

---

 

But there IS hope!!!

1 Corinthians 6:9-11

 9. Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived:
     Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders
10. nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
11. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

 

---

If you could NOT change, you would be in most pitiful shape.....

[Elsie]

Any group that can do this does tend to stick out of the crowd.

Gee... Thanks for the mental image of a bathhouse!!

[Elsie]

Hi Resty!

Long time no see.

[Star Traveler]

Those were most appropriate verses from the Word of God...

Thank you

[Elsie]

Thank you

The thanks goes to those who gave their LIVES so that we could have the WORD preserved today.

(No; it does NOT need any 'restoring')

[Rameumptom]

>>I would say that it produced the biggest win for the McCain-Palin ticket of all the states in the United States that went for the Republican ticket — the absolute biggest percentage with 66% of the vote for it.

That't the thing with statistics by deciding which pieces to include you can easily make your case.

Lets break it down. Actual numbers are here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Presidential_Election_2008#Election_results

Oklahoma gave McCain/Palin 65.6% of the vote

Utah gave McCain/Palin 64.7% of the vote

What also needs to be considered however is the influence of the Constitution party (ie Clinton came in third in Utah)

Baldwin was not on the ticket in OK, no third party was. Baldwin was on the ballot in Utah and got 11,131 votes. Had he not been on the ballot in Utah it is reasonable to say Utah would have been on top voting for McCain/Palin. Baldwin's votes put Utah over the top in voting for the conservative Evangelicals (Palin & Baldwin a Baptist pastor) at a higher rate than the voters even in Oklahoma.

Of course there are deeper layers as well.

There are Mormons in Oklahoma (I was born there and attended church as a youngster) and Evangelicals in Utah. Salt Lake City is 50% non Mormon so we really need a further breakdown of religious groups like the one here at Christianity Today http://blog.christianitytoday.com/ctpolitics/2008/11/the_evangelical.html which lists 1 out of 4 Evangelicals going for Obama.

What I really want to see is a breakdown of mormon voters as well. Granted this article I found is from the liberal rag SLTribune so take it with a grain of salt but Obama managed to peel off more Evangelicals and Catholics than Kerry did 4 years ago. Mormons were lumped in the protestant other/category which didn't budge for Obama while the Evangelical Protestant category did.

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_10915490

Protestants, too, went with Obama by an increase of 5 percentage points, although - similar to Catholic results - the increase had less to do with a shift among white voters than it did with people of different racial backgrounds. Evangelical support, in recent years assumed a Republican shoo-in, grew for Obama, while those who considered themselves non-Evangelical Protestants didn't waver or change. Mormons did not have a separate category in this initial study and were included with "Protestant/Other Christian," the report stated.

If anyone can dig up the mormon breakdown of voting results I'd like to see it. But I'm guessing the MSM doesn't want teh info. out there.

So to make a long story short. Here are the soundbites "Christian Oklahoma was the highest state for McCain/Palin" but another relevatnt soundbite is that "Mormon Utah voted for Evangelical candidates Palin/Baldwin at an even higher rate than Christian Oklahoma"

Now what do we do with this information? Instead of quibbling about Doctrines why don't we figure out how to get the rest of the country to vote in 4 years the way Okalhoma and Utah did this go around.

[DungeonMaster]

Why do they get all the credit!?

[DungeonMaster]

These people are really starting to piss me off...

Then you are just starting to pay attention.

[Zionist Conspirator]

Muslims say Christians are "infidels" and Mormons say Christianity underwent a "universal apostasy" for about 1500 years.

I thought Protestantism said the same thing.

[Star Traveler]

You said — “Now what do we do with this information? Instead of quibbling about Doctrines why don’t we figure out how to get the rest of the country to vote in 4 years the way Okalhoma and Utah did this go around.”

I don’t know about you, but I can chew gum and walk at the same time... LOL...

—

It’s like I said before, politics is one thing and the Gospel of Jesus Christ, as taught from the teachings and doctrines of the Christian church over the centuries *is another thing*...

I don’t have to mix the two up together. It’s the “worldview” that comes out of Bible-believing Christian teachings and doctrines that produces conservatives for the most part (there are other segments, too, I know...).

I’ll continue contending for the faith, as the Bible says...

AND..., I don’t care if a Buddhist or an atheist votes for marriage being between a man and a woman... (two different things...).

[Zionist Conspirator]

I don’t understand how so many white racialists of so many religious persuasions can say today’s Black people are descendants of Cain when all Cain’s descendants died in the Flood. Well, except that Noah’s wife Na`amah may have been a Cainite, which would make every human being since that time a descendant of Cain.

[Colofornian]

I thought Protestantism said the same thing.

Well, that would take a lot of gall. Because you'd have to judge the faith -- or lack of it-- of all the individuals who lived over 1500 years.

A few Protestants have cast the entire Catholic church overboard over the centuries, but you can see the difference in how Protestants were described from the get-go vs. how Mormons described themselves from the get-go. It boils down to the difference between reformers and restorers.

Luther, Zwingli, Calvin & other reformers sought to reshape the church...

...(a) putting matters of faith more into the hands of the grassroots (Luther translating a Bible into German instead of having to rely upon priests who knew Latin, for example)...
(b) ...reforming ecclesiastical nonsense (like the selling of indulgences by Catholics...supposedly lopping off purgatory time)...
(c) ...reforming what the key doctrinal stress was in the church (for Calvin, he stressed "five points"; for Luther, he stressed Scripture alone, faith alone, and grace alone)...
(d) ...and some (like Luther) took on the elevated status of the pope.

As you can see, most of this was aimed to benefit grassroots Christians while taking on Catholic leadership on these matters. Luther didn't want the church named after him and didn't alter much at the corporate worship level.

In comparison, Joseph Smith in his first vision took direct aim at every single Christian sect creed (calling them an "abomination") and said all of them were unworthy to join and labeled all the professors of this faith as "corrupt." Now ya gotta remember that this "first vision" -- though not published for well over a dozen years after it supposedly occurred -- was said by Smith to have taken place when he was only 14 years old.

Would you stake your opinion on the entire worldwide Christian church just on the basis of what a 14 year old said happened?

[fproy2222]

There are a lot of one liners and sound bites being used around here.

Many do not mean what they sound like because of the mixing and mis-matching of ideas.

[freeplancer]

You make no sense. I am done trying to figure out what you are trying to say. Maybe you should contend with non believers instead of fellow brethern?! Also, since you are an expert at knowing exactly what the bible says and what it means, please do humanity a favor and describe exactly what Revelations means. Thanks

[Zionist Conspirator]

I still say that Protestantism from the get-got said that all previously existing liturgical chr*stianity had become the "whore of Babylon." And Catholic/Orthodox chr*stianity is certainly as different from Protestantism as mormonism is from either of the above.

Would you stake your opinion on the entire worldwide Christian church just on the basis of what a 14 year old said happened?

By Jewish standards all of chr*stianity is on very shaky ground, but this is not the place to argue about it.

[Star Traveler]

It’s really simple...

The person I was responding to said that we should put aside differences in doctrines and teachings (i.e., the basic, historical and foundational teachings of Christianity, as compared to the cult-status of the Mormon teachings and doctrines) — aside — in place of working together for political goals.

My simple answer (which I have no idea why you can’t make this out), is that these are *two different* areas.

And what’s true in one area (let’s say, “politics”) has nothing to do with what’s true and false in another area (let’s say, “Christianity, vs cult-teachings of Mormonism).

Therefore, that’s why I closed with the statements that I’ll continuing contending for the faith (on the one hand), while not caring who (on the other hand — atheists or Buddhist, or whomever) join in with “politics”.

The two are not in the same area of discussion...

AND..., if you can’t grasp it at this point, then I’m beyond my “paygrade” of expertise to try and explain it to you...

[tiki]

God bless the Mormons, the Catholics and the Evangelicals who fought to defeat abomination.