Posted on 09/30/2008 8:18:10 AM PDT by SmithL
A Shasta County atheist sued top state corrections officials Monday, claiming that his constitutional rights were violated when he was returned to prison after objecting to participation in a program with religious overtones as a condition of parole.
Barry A. Hazle Jr., 40, was released from prison in February 2007 after doing a year for drug possession. He was required to complete a 90-day drug treatment program and was assigned to one in Shasta County.
The Redding computer technician says he objected several times to "coerced participation" in a program based on the 12-step recovery method originally developed by Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous, according to the lawsuit filed in Sacramento federal court.
The 12-step program required "acknowledgment of the existence of a supernatural God, … deference to a monotheistic 'higher power,' and participation in prayer," the suit alleges.
Hazle says he asked to be reassigned to a secular recovery program and finally delivered a written appeal to his parole officer, Mitch Crofoot. But, he says, Crofoot told him "all of the programs in Northern California are 12-step programs."
Three days after Crofoot received the appeal, Hazle was called out of one of the program classes and arrested for violating parole, the suit alleges. He was sent back to prison for four months.
He "was jailed for standing up for his constitutional rights, plain and simple," said Hazle's lawyer, John Heller of Chapman, Popik & White in San Francisco.
(Excerpt) Read more at sacbee.com ...
While I am a firm believer that it’s founders were Christians, and that the program is at it’s core Godly, as it is applied today, it is what you want it to be. If you want your Higher Power to be Budda, the Flying Spagetti Monster, or “the Group”, it is up to you. This guy is blowing smoke.
This won’t work.
AA makes it perfectly clear that it is not affiliated with any religion.
And every person is urged to find a higher power of their own understanding. No concepts are forced on anyone.
This won’t work.
AA makes it perfectly clear that it is not affiliated with any religion.
And every person is urged to find a higher power of their own understanding. No concepts are forced on anyone.
100% right, 50s Dad..
If the guy would have looked a little bit harder, he would been able to find some atheist AA or NA meetings. No hard to do in North CA. I know for a fact they exist; I’m pretty sure I was’nt having a flashback during the meetings of that type I attended. :-)
This is more of the typical ACLU type “WAAAHH” lawsuit. OK, you got a choice ... Meetings or JAIL .. you chose JAIL .. What’s the PROBLEM??
**But, he says, Crofoot told him “all of the programs in Northern California are 12-step programs.” **
Because it’s one of the only ones that can actually work??
After 29 years, I can truly say ... those Meetings are MUCH easier than JAIL!!!
He knows
but the court is requiring him to undertake a program where he must declare the equivalent of Ish Allah
I'd say he has a slam dunk case on First Amendment grounds
The Oxford Group was a non denominational Christian Fellowship founded by Frank Buchman. The Group believed in the practice of meditation, a belief in God of the believers understanding, and following the six tenents. The Six Tenents were 1. Men are Sinners, 2. Men can be changed, 3. Confession is a prerequisite of Change, 4. The changed soul had direct access to God, 5. The age of miracles has returned, 6. Those who have been changed must change others.[7] In 1955 Bill Wilson also known as Bill W., one of the two cofounders of Alcoholics Anonymous, acknowledged the impact the Oxford Group had on Alcoholics Anonymous in that " early AA got its ideas of self-examintation, acknowledgement of character defects, restitution for harm done, and working with others straight from the Oxford Group and directly from Sam Shoemaker, their former leader in America, and from nowhere else."[8]Later in life Bill gave credit to the Oxford group for saving his life.[9]
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
Really - they don’t have to respect his establishment of religion (or lack thereof). And they are not prohibiting him from freely exercising his religion. He doesn’t have to believe in a God. He could believe in Space, since that is bigger than himself. All he has to believe in for the 12-step program is that he is not in control of anything or anyone but himself. That’s just a fact. And seriously, just do it to not go back to jail. I mean, when we are court ordered for any kind of class or program, we do it because the law has appointed it & we don’t want further trouble. If you actually get something out of it, then BONUS!
Seemingly, that doesn't work
Three days after Crofoot received the appeal, Hazle was called out of one of the program classes and arrested for violating parole
He was attending the classes. He was arrested for making a legal objection to being compelled to attend a religious meeting.
Oztrich has Made up it’s mind .. don’t try to confuse it with facts.
Even the Great EMPIRE of NY tried to declare AA a Religious Organization. Didn’t work for them ... won’t work for you either.
Guy had a choice .. attend the classes, the meetings or go to jail ... looks like he made his choice ... JAIL IT IS!
Well, I guess you can't expect clear thinking from a druggie.
According to his lawyer, who is of course going to make public statements that are favorable to his client, whether they are the truth or not.
Personally, I'll need more proof that the guy was arrested for this reason than just his lawyer's claim.
Hello everyone, my first post here at FR.
Well, this guy has a point, in that the 12 steps, non-denominational though they may be, do force one to do both of the following things:
1. Acknowledge that you are powerless over your bad habit of choice.
2. Surrendering yourself to a higher power is the only way to break the habit. In other words, to complete the 12 steps, you need to ask God to intercede directly in your life.
They pay lip service to the idea that your higher power can be anything, (even a rock if you want that to be it!) but its a disengenious tactic in order to be viewed as mostly secular.
From what I have read (don’t hold me to this if you have better info, please let me know), 12 step programs generally have about the same success rate as a person does on their own, in trying to break their habit... so its a little stupid to let people out of jail early for completing one.
No - 12 step programs actually are very useful and many of the people who have succeeded in them obviously could not do it on their own. However, having said that, I don’t necessarily think special privileges should be given for completing or participating in a program.
Well, Christians did start AA and it was started in Akron Ohio I think.
I am surprised the group is allowing the judge to use them this way. In Texas I believe, AA went to court and got judges to quit doing this.
“You are wrong. Twelve step programs have a higher success rate then doing it on your own. HOWEVER you have to want to be in the program. This guy, for whatever reason, does not wish to be there. Thus it will not do him a lick of good and will do harm to those who want to be there.”
Well, I think it’s a cop out, in a way, not to include those people “who don’t want to quite” in the stats, and I’ll explain why I think this.
Take the guy in this article for example... he may not want to quit drinking, but he is faced with an ultimatum... follow the program or stay in jail (for a few extra months anyways). This is not all together different from some mans wife giving him an ultimatum: “Quit drinking or I’m going to leave you”.
In order to “want” to quit your destructive habit, there has to be some sort of realization, that there is some potential in your life that you want to realize.. and your habit is preventing you from realizing it. If you are simply presented with an ultimatum, you are just being forced to quit at gunpoint, but not necessarily truly comprehending why you should... and perhaps you will even resent this forced circumstance in the long run.
People who have gone through this self-accounting process, will of course, be much more likely to be pro-active in figuring things out, whether they are in a 12 step program or not. If AA or any other 12 step program isn’t effective at helping you “want to quit”, then it doesn’t seem like its all that effective.. get what I am trying to say?
If you take out the people who don’t “want to quit”, as you should, from the pool of people who go without 12 steps, then I bet the numbers start look similar. I will say that I am glad the program is there, it is the right solution for many people (I have lots of friends in the program), but its definitely not a one size fits all type of thing.
They do include them, in states where they have not gotten the right to keep them out.
The core of AA and other 12 step groups is YOU have to want to change. They will help you but you are the only one who can change you.
Having people there who do not want to be there harms this process.
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