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To: Swordmaker
In fact ALL vanillins would disappear in SECONDS at temperatures above 200 degrees centigrade.

Have you read Rogers' article in Thermochimica Acta? He provides the formula there. Do the math.

There are thousands of thread and fiber samples that were taken from every area of the Shroud during STURP's 1978 examination. They still exist. They have not been destroyed. They have been examined six-ways from Sunday. Your claim there are none is contrary to the facts as reported in numerous scientific and scholarly reports.

Again, have you read the TA article? Rogers specifically states in it that Gonella gave him threads from the center of the c-14 test area. SEE: September 1995: Cardinal Saldarini issues statement declaring any Shroud samples in circulation other than those taken with official permission for the tests of 1978 as unauthorized. He remarks that 'if such material exists…the Holy See has not given its permission to anybody to keep it and do what they want with it' and he requests those concerned to give the piece back to the Holy See. This statement seems clearly to be directed at the samples taken by Professor Giovanni Riggi in April 1988, portions from which were procured in all good faith by Dr. Garza-Valdes. http://www.shroud.com/history.htm

Gonella did not have the authority to give anything to Rogers and there is NO evidence that these threads ever existed. Rogers and Gonella are religious frauds. BTW, there is a MAJOR flaw in Rogers' TA article revolving around his statement "A determination of the kinetics of vanillin loss suggests that the shroud is between 1300- and 3000-years old. Even allowing for errors in the measurements and assumptions about storage conditions, the cloth is unlikely to be as young as 840 years." He also states that there is NO vanillin in the shroud in the article. Can you point out why his statements are unscientific on their face?

97 posted on 09/29/2008 1:41:48 AM PDT by Soliton (> 100)
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To: Soliton; grey_whiskers; NYer; shroudie; MHGinTN
Gonella did not have the authority to give anything to Rogers and there is NO evidence that these threads ever existed.

Rogers specifically states in it that Gonella gave him threads from the center of the c-14 test area.

Which is just as I have been telling you.

Pardon me, but I have been misremembering Gonella and confabulating him with the Custodian of the Shroud. My apologies. Professor Luigi Gonella is the current scientific advisor to the Custodian of the Shroud, Cardinal Severino Poletto of Turin. Gonella operates under the Cardinal's authority who operates under the Pope's authority.

September 1995: Cardinal Saldarini issues statement declaring any Shroud samples in circulation other than those taken with official permission for the tests of 1978 as unauthorized. He remarks that 'if such material exists…the Holy See has not given its permission to anybody to keep it and do what they want with it' and he requests those concerned to give the piece back to the Holy See.

There have been changes in things since 1995. It was ten years later and there is a different Cardinal who is the Custodian of the Shroud. His science advisor is Professor Luigi Gonella.

It is true that certain portions of the samples that are in circulation are not currently "authorized" by the Catholic Church, but they do exist and have a chain of custody. The threads you specifically mention are those that were used by Dr. Garza-Valdes who put forward the bio-plastic coating hypothesis which were obtained from Professor Riggi. They do not refer to the threads Rogers received from Gonella, an official source with the Custodian of the Shroud.

104 posted on 09/29/2008 2:36:04 AM PDT by Swordmaker (Remember, the proper pronunciation of IE is "AAAAIIIIIEEEEEEE!)
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