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To: Soliton; grey_whiskers; NYer; shroudie
The Rogers Article in Acta was a joke. It was destroyed. That’s why the STURP boys came out saying they had verified his results.

Please provide the articles published by scientists in either Thermochemica Acta or in any other peer-reviewed journals that refuted Rogers findings and "destroyed" his research and article. PLEASE.

Incidentally, neither Brown nor Villareal—scientists who, working within their fields of expertise, have replicated Rogers findings using different approaches—are or were members of STURP. So how can they be "STURP boys?" I know you think that "STURP boys" is a term of denigration... it is not.

These are men and women that I have met and talked to. I know far more about them than do you. Your ad homenem libel and slander about them is merely presented in hopes that someone will believe you. As I have stated before, you are reprehensible.

In fact ALL vanillins would disappear in SECONDS at temperatures above 200 degrees centigrade.

And you know this HOW? Where are your citations proving this? This was Raymond Rogers field of expertise.

He claimed that the thermal resistance of linen (this is one part stolen from McCrone)

BS, Soliton. The thermal resistance of Linen is a function that has been tested by many people who work with textiles. McCrone merely looked it up in a reference text. He did not do any research on such thermal resistance nor, as a microscopist, was he qualified to do such research. Ironically, as a chemical pyrologist, Raymond Rogers IS qualified to do such research. He is also qualified to do such research on Vanilan.

No such threads are known to exist AND photomicrographs of the samples show no threads missing. Gonella DID NOT have authority to release samples to Rogers as I have already posted.

There are thousands of thread and fiber samples that were taken from every area of the Shroud during STURP's 1978 examination. They still exist. They have not been destroyed. They have been examined six-ways from Sunday. Your claim there are none is contrary to the facts as reported in numerous scientific and scholarly reports.

How could Gonella NOT have authority when he was the highest authority other than the Pope on this particular issue. He is the Custodian of the Shroud of Turin. He is the authority to which scientists submit requests for samples in his possession. You write a letter to the Custodian of the Shroud outlining your proposed study and/or experiments, and if he agrees, you sign an agreement about your research and the Custodian sends you the requested samples. Under his official duties—by the Authority of the owner of the Shroud, and not to mention, Christ's Vicar on Earth, the Pope. How hard is this to understand. You keep claiming this "lack of authority" but you have never, ever backed up your claims except from skeptical sites that also lack proof of their assertions. You have offered absolutely NO PROOF of that claim. Provide your proof. SOLITON, PUT UP OR SHUT UP.

96 posted on 09/29/2008 12:29:13 AM PDT by Swordmaker (Remember, the proper pronunciation of IE is "AAAAIIIIIEEEEEEE!)
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To: Swordmaker
In fact ALL vanillins would disappear in SECONDS at temperatures above 200 degrees centigrade.

Have you read Rogers' article in Thermochimica Acta? He provides the formula there. Do the math.

There are thousands of thread and fiber samples that were taken from every area of the Shroud during STURP's 1978 examination. They still exist. They have not been destroyed. They have been examined six-ways from Sunday. Your claim there are none is contrary to the facts as reported in numerous scientific and scholarly reports.

Again, have you read the TA article? Rogers specifically states in it that Gonella gave him threads from the center of the c-14 test area. SEE: September 1995: Cardinal Saldarini issues statement declaring any Shroud samples in circulation other than those taken with official permission for the tests of 1978 as unauthorized. He remarks that 'if such material exists…the Holy See has not given its permission to anybody to keep it and do what they want with it' and he requests those concerned to give the piece back to the Holy See. This statement seems clearly to be directed at the samples taken by Professor Giovanni Riggi in April 1988, portions from which were procured in all good faith by Dr. Garza-Valdes. http://www.shroud.com/history.htm

Gonella did not have the authority to give anything to Rogers and there is NO evidence that these threads ever existed. Rogers and Gonella are religious frauds. BTW, there is a MAJOR flaw in Rogers' TA article revolving around his statement "A determination of the kinetics of vanillin loss suggests that the shroud is between 1300- and 3000-years old. Even allowing for errors in the measurements and assumptions about storage conditions, the cloth is unlikely to be as young as 840 years." He also states that there is NO vanillin in the shroud in the article. Can you point out why his statements are unscientific on their face?

97 posted on 09/29/2008 1:41:48 AM PDT by Soliton (> 100)
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