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Who is the Rock?
http://www.geocities.com/trvalentine/orthodox/rock.html ^ | unknown | Thomas Ross Valentine.

Posted on 09/25/2008 3:35:53 PM PDT by guitarplayer1953

Who is the Rock?

A Look at Matthew 16

The question as to whether the rock of Matthew 16:18 on which the Lord Jesus Christ declares He will build His Church is to be identified with Saint Peter the Apostle has certainly generated a great deal of debate, disagreement, and argumentation. There are three fundamental perspectives: (1) the rock is Saint Peter the Apostle, (2) the rock is the Lord Jesus Christ, Saint Peter being a 'stone', and (3) the rock is the confession of Saint Peter. It is doubtful whether anything new can be added to any discussion of this issue, but it is hoped that an historical overview of the issue will be beneficial.

In the opinion of this writer, the discussion is frequently focused too narrowly on verse 18 and sometimes on verse 19. The narrow focus is probably advantageous to papal apologists seeking to prove the importance of Saint Peter. However, based upon the principle that unclear passages of Holy Scripture should be clarified and illumined by other passages of Holy Scripture — that the larger context should be used — let us examine the entire pericope, verses 13-23:

13 And Jesus coming into the parts of Caesarea of Philippi, He was questioning His disciples saying, Who do men say that I be, the Son of Man? 14 And they said, Some, on the one hand, John the Baptist, but others Elijah, still others Jeremiah or one of the Prophets.

15 He to them, But who do you say Me to be? 16 And answering, Simon Πέτρος said, You are the Christ, the Son of the Living God.

17 And answering, Jesus said to him, Blessed are you Simon Bar-Jonah because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father in the Heavens. 18 And I also to you say that you are Πέτρος and on this πέτρ I will build My Church, and the gates of Hades will not have power over it. 19 And I will give you (singular) the keys of the Reign of the Heavens, and whatever you bind on the earth must have been bound in the Heavens, and whatever you loose on the earth must have been loosed in the Heavens. 20 Then He ordered His disciples that no one should they tell that He is Jesus the Christ.

21 From then began Jesus to show to His disciples that it is necessary for Him to go off to Jerusalem and many things to suffer from the elders and chief priests and scribes and to be killed and on the third day to be raised.

22 And taking Him aside, Πέτρος began to rebuke Him, saying, Grace to You, Lord, this shall not happen to You.

23 But He turning said to Πέτρ Go away behind Me, Satan! A scandal to Me you are, because you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men.

When one considers the entire passage, the synonymous parallelism so common to Jewish writings becomes apparent. The most obvious parallels are verses 13 & 15 (Who do men say that I be? versus But who do you say Me to be?)and verses 14 & 16 (Some ... John the Baptist ... Elijah ... Jeremiah or one of the Prophets versus the Christ, the Son of the Living God). But there is another important parallel present: verses 17 & 23. The former is the Lord Jesus Christ's declaration that Saint Peter's recognition that He was the Christ, the Son of the Living God came from God the Father. Saint Peter is declared blessed because he was turned towards God. This orientation towards God was what permitted his spiritual senses (his nous) to receive this revelation since he who is of God hears God's words [John 8:47]. This verse is paralleled by the Lord Jesus Christ's declaration that Saint Peter is Satan and a scandal because he was turned away from God. It was Saint Peter's orientation away from God that caused him to rebuke the Lord Jesus Christ. This is reinforced by the next verse: Then Jesus said to His disciples, If anyone desires to follow Me, let him deny himself and let him take up his cross and let him follow me.

It seems clear from this last parallelism that Saint Peter's status is dependent upon whether his orientation is towards, or away from, God. Whilst oriented towards God, he is blessed, but when oriented away from God, he is Satan and a scandal. It also seems clear that if Saint Peter's status is that of Satan and a scandal he cannot be the foundation upon which the Church is built. This parallelism thus provides strong support for the perspective that the rock of Matthew 16:18 is Saint Peter's confession.

Let us now proceed to an examination of the text itself. We will limit this to verses 18 and 19, the verses on which papal apologists focus.

Matthew 16:18

κγ

δέ

σοι

λέγω

τι

ο

ε

Πέτρος

κα

π

ταύτ

τ

πέτρ

and-I

and

to you
(sing.)

I-say

that

you
(sing.)

you-are

Peter
(a) stone

and

on

this
(here)

rock

 

οκοδομήσω

μου

τν

κκλησίαν

κα

δου

κα

πύο

κατισχύσουσιν

ατς

I will build

my

Church
(assembly)

and

gates

of Hades

not

they-will-be-stronger
prevail

than-her

Matthew 16:19

κα

δώσω

σοι

τς

κλες

τς

βασιλείας

τν

ορανν

κα

     ἐὰν

and

I-will-give

to-you
(sing.)

the

keys

of-the

reign
(kingdom)

of-the

of-heavens

and

what ever
(or  whoever)

 

δήσς

π

τς

γς

σται

δεδεμένον

ν

τος

ορανος

κα

you-might-bind

on

on-the

earth

it-will
it must

have-been-bound

in

in-the

in-heavens

and

 

     ἐὰν

λσς

π

τς

γς

σται

λελυμένον

ν

τος

ορανος

what ever
(or  whoever)

you-release

on

on-the

earth

it-will
it must

have-been-released

in

in-the

in-heavens

 

The combination of the future tense σται with the perfect passive participles δεδεμένον and λελυμένον creates a grammatical context called periphrasis which conveys a sense of requirement or necessity. A more direct expression, using a future-perfect-passive form does not convey the indispensable necessity for a preceding action to have taken place in order for the subsequent action to occur.

St. Jerome, when translating the Greek to Latin, rendered the verbal form word by word rather than as a periphrasis. Rather than translating it as erit ligandum (which would have been more accurate), he used erit ligatum. Thus, the Latin translation used by papal Christians has been the equivalent of whatever you bind on earth will have been bound in Heaven. The Greek is more forceful, more like whatever you bind on earth must have been bound in Heaven. (The same construction applies to Matthew 18:18 and to the Our Father which asks us to pray that the Father's will be done, as in Heaven, so also on earth.) It is important to remember that, according to the principle of the ancients, the higher determines the lower, not vice versa. Thus, Heaven does not follow the earth, rather the earth should follow Heaven.

A more subtle point of grammar and vocabulary which pertains to the above passage is that in Greek, the use of the demonstrative pronoun this ( ταύτ ) refers to the object closest to the speaker rather than the object previously referenced by the speaker as is common in English. In other words, the Greek ( ταύτ ) means this (here) rather than this (which was previously referenced).

(My thanks to the linguist Fr. James [Silver] of Drew University for his work which underlies the above explanation.) Fr. James's proposed translation with special care for the contextual nuances of the Hebraic waw which underlies the κα, for Matthew 16:18-19 is

So I tell you, then, that you are a stone, but I will build My Church on this rock, and the gates of Haides will not overpower it. Still, I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven, but whatever you might bind on earth must have been bound in Heaven, and whatever you might release on earth must have been released in Heaven.

The stone versus rock difference is, of course, frequently cited against papal apologists. The latter counter with the claim that the Lord Jesus Christ spoke Aramaic and that the same word — ke'pha' — would have been spoken by the Lord for both Πέτρος and πέτρ. This writer is uncomfortable with such a claim, believing it to be the equivalent of those who, through speculative reasoning, assume there must be a Q (short for quelle, meaning source) document behind the Gospels of Saint Matthew and Saint Luke and attempt to re-create the assumed document, and then proceed to give it precedence because of the original assumption that it is more ancient. Although tradition maintains that the Gospel of Saint Matthew was originally written in a Hebraic language, we have no other evidence, just as we have no evidence of the existence of a Q document. Just as those who would give precedence to a Q document must ignore the fact that it is the Gospels of Saint Matthew and Saint Luke which came to be recognised as canonical Scripture, so too, those who would give precedence to an assumed Aramaic text must ignore the fact that it is in Greek that the Gospel of Saint Matthew was recognised to be Holy Scripture.

The papal apologists' argument that ke'pha' underlies both Πέτρος and πέτρ also ignores the fact that Aramaic has words other than ke'pha' to refer to rocks and stones (e.g. shu'a' ) and it ignores the fact that if  Saint Matthew had desired to write that the Church would be built on the Apostle Peter, he could have phrased it more explicitly. The papal apologists' argument also misapplies English's use of the demonstrative pronoun to the Greek language, assuming that this refers to the noun previously referenced (Peter) when it refers to the subject closest to the speaker (in this case the Lord Jesus Himself) — it is quite possible that as the Lord Jesus Christ spoken the words, on this rock, He gestured to Himself.

If Saint Matthew had written and on you, Peter, I will build, or and on your confession, Peter, I will build, or on the Rock which is Me, I will build with you the stone there would be no grounds for debate. But since he did not, we need to rely on other passages from Holy Scripture to help us understand this passage.

Throughout the Old Testament, most references to rock or stone simply refer to the common object studied by geologists. The Septuagint text rarely uses rock or stone in any other way, however the Masoretic text frequently calls God a rock or the rock. Almost every place the Masoretic uses rock in this way, the Septuagint explicitly refers to God. The following table examines these passages.

MASORETIC

Verse

SEPTUAGINT

He is the Rock, His work is perfect; For all His ways are justice, A God of truth and without injustice; Righteous and upright is He.

Deut 32:4

He is God, His works are true; And all His ways are justice, A faithful God and without injustice; Righteous and holy is the Lord.

...Then he forsook God who made him, and scornfully esteemed to Rock of his salvation.

Deut 32:15

... then he forsook God who made him, and stood back from God his Saviour.

Of the Rock who begot you, you are unmindful, And have forgotten the God who fathered you.

Deut 32:18

You abandoned the God who begot you, and have forgotten the God who nourished you.

How could one chase a thousand, And two put ten thousand to flight, Unless their Rock had sold them, And the LORD had surrendered them?

Deut 32:30

How should one chase a thousand, and two put ten thousands to flight, Unless God had sold them, And the Lord had surrendered them?

For their rock is not like our Rock, Even our enemies themselves being judges.

Deut 32:31

For our God is not like their gods, But our enemies are foolish.

He will say: 'Where are their gods, The rock in which they sought refuge?

Deut 32:37

The Lord said, Where are their gods in which they trusted?

No one is holy like the LORD, For there is none besides You, Nor is there any rock like our God.

1 Samuel
2:2

1 Kingdom
2:2

Because no one is holy like the Lord, No one is righteous like our God; No one is holy but You.

And he said: "The LORD is my rock and my fortress and my deliverer;

2 Samuel
22:2

2 Kingdom
22:2

And the song was thus: O Lord, my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer,

For who is God, except the LORD? And who is a rock, except our God?

2 Samuel
22:32

2 Kingdom
22:32

Who is strong, but the Lord? and who will be a Creator except our God?

"The LORD lives! Blessed be my Rock! Let God be exalted, The Rock of my salvation!

2 Samuel
22:47

2 Kingdom
22:47

The Lord lives, and blessed be my guardian, and my God, my strong keeper, shall be exalted.

The God of Israel said, The Rock of Israel spoke to me: He who rules over man must be just, Ruling in the fear of God.

2 Samuel
23:3

2 Kingdom
23:3

The God of Israel says, A watchman out of Israel spoke to me a parable; I said among men, How will ye strengthen the fear of the anointed?

The LORD is my rock and my fortress and my deliverer; My God, my strength, in whom I will trust; My shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold

Ps 18:2

Ps 17:1

I will love Thee, O Lord, my strength; the Lord is my foundation, and my refuge, and my deliverer.

For who is God, except the LORD? And who is a rock, except our God?

Ps 18:31

Ps 17:31

For who is god, save the Lord? And who is god, save our God?

The LORD lives! Blessed be my Rock! Let the God of my salvation be exalted.

Ps 18:46

Ps 17:47

The Lord liveth, and blessed is my God, and let the God of my salvation be exalted.

To You I will cry, O LORD my Rock: Do not be silent to me, Lest, if You are silent to me, I become like those who go down to the pit.

Ps 28:1

Ps 27:1

Unto Thee, O Lord, will I cry; O my God, be not silent unto me, lest, if Thou be silent to me, I become like them that go down into the pit.

Bow down Your ear to me, Deliver me speedily; Be my rock of refuge, A fortress of defense to save me.

Ps 31:2

Ps 30:2

Bow down Thine ear unto me, make haste to rescue me, be Thou unto me a God to defend me and a house of refuge to save me.

For You are my rock and my fortress; Therefore, for Your name's sake, Lead me and guide me.

Ps 31:3

Ps 30:3

For my strength and my refuge art Thou, and for Thy name's sake wilt Thou guide me and nourish me.

I will say to God my Rock, "Why have You forgotten me? Why do I go mourning because of the oppression of the enemy?

Ps 42:9

Ps 41:10

I will say unto God: Thou art my helper. Why hast Thou forgotten me? And wherefore go I with downcast face whilst mine enemy afflicteth me?

He only is my rock and my salvation; He is my defense; I shall not be greatly moved.

Ps 62:2

Ps 61:2

For He is my God, my saviour and my helper, and I shall be shaken no more.

He only is my rock and my salvation; He is my defense; I shall not be moved.

Ps 62:6

Ps 61:6

For He is my God, my saviour and my helper, and I shall not be moved from hence.

God is my salvation and my glory; The rock of my strength, And my refuge, is in God.

Ps 62:7

Ps 61:7

In God is my salvation and my glory; He is the God of my help, and my hope is in God.

Be my strong refuge, To which I may resort continually; You have given the commandment to save me, For You are my rock and my fortress

Ps 71:3

Ps 70:2

Be Thou unto me a God that is my defender and a place of strength that Thou mayest save me, for Thou art my foundation and refuge.

Then they remembered that God was their rock, And the Most High God their Redeemer

Ps 78:35

Ps 77:38

And they remembered that God is their helper, and that God the Most High is their redeemer.

He shall cry to Me, You are my Father, My God, and the rock of my salvation.

Ps 89:26

Ps 88:25

He shall call upon Me and shall say: My Father art Thou, my God, and the helper of my salvation.

To declare that the LORD is upright; He is my rock, and there is no unrighteousness in Him.

Ps 92:15

Ps 91:13

They shall still increase in a ripe old age, and happy shall they be to proclaim that upright is the Lord our God, and there is no unrighteousness in Him.

But the LORD has been my defense, And my God the rock of my refuge.

Ps 94:22

Ps 93:22

Yea, the Lord is become my refuge, and my God the helper of my hope.

O come, let us sing to the LORD! Let us shout joyfully to the Rock of our salvation.

Ps 95:1

Ps 94:1

Come let us rejoice in the Lord, let us shout with jubilation unto God our Saviour.

Blessed be the LORD my Rock, Who trains my hands for war, And my fingers for battle

Ps 144:1

Ps 143:1

Blessed is the Lord my God, Who teacheth my hands for battle and my fingers for war.

He will be as a sanctuary, But a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense To both the houses of Israel, As a trap and a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.

Isa 8:14

And if thou shalt trust in him, he shall be to thee for a sanctuary; and ye shall not come against him as against a stumbling-stone, neither as against the falling of a rock; but the houses of Jacob are in a snare, and the dwellers in Jerusalem in a pit.

Because you have forgotten the God of your salvation, And have not been mindful of the Rock of your stronghold, Therefore you will plant pleasant plants And set out foreign seedlings;

Isa 17:10

Because thou hast forsaken God thy Saviour, and hast not been mindful of the Lord thy helper; therefore shalt thou plant a false plant, and a false seed.

Do not fear, nor be afraid; Have I not told you from that time, and declared it? You are My witnesses. Is there a God beside Me? Indeed there is no other Rock; I know not one.

Isa 44:7

Hide not yourselves, nor go astray: have ye not heard from the beginning, and have not I told you? ye are witnesses if there is a God beside me.

Listen to Me, you who follow after righteousness, You who seek the LORD: Look to the rock from which you were hewn, And to the hole of the pit from which you were dug.

Isa 51:1

Hearken to me, ye that follow after righteousness, and seek the Lord: look to the solid rock, which ye have hewn, and to the hole of the pit which ye have dug.

 

From this examination of Old Testament passages, we can see the label rock is never applied to any person other than God. Indeed, there seems to be a consensus amongst Orthodox Christians, Protestants, and Papal Christians that there are no instances in the Old Testament where a human person is labelled Rock. With the exception of Matt 16:18, there is also consensus that there are no New Testament passages where a human person is named Rock. Therefore, the principle of interpreting unclear passages by other passages provides no support for the idea that the rock of Matt 16:18 is the Apostle Peter.

Papal apologists often argue that their belief that Peter was renamed Rock by the Lord Jesus Christ was so important that it was a unique event — found only in Matt 16:18. Although this argument begs the question, it must be allowed as a possibility — but history needs to be examined to find if such an interpretation has universality, antiquity, and consent in the Church. In other words, can it be established that such a belief existed in all regions (not limited to a particular area), can be found extant from the earliest years (not something invented centuries after Pentecost), and not attacked as inconsistent with the Apostolic Faith?

Saint Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to the Philadelphians

[Chapter 9] The Comforter is holy, and the Word is holy, the Son of the Father, by whom He made all things, and exercises a providence over them all. This is the Way which leads to the Father, the Rock, the Defence, the Key, the Shepherd, the Sacrifice, the Door of knowledge, through which have entered Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, Moses and all the company of the prophets, and these pillars of the world, the apostles, and the spouse of Christ, on whose account He poured out His own blood, as her marriage portion, that He might redeem her.

Clearly the Lord Jesus Christ is here identified as the Rock.

 

Saint Justin Martyr, Second Apology

[Chapter 113] For I have shown that Christ was proclaimed by the prophets in parables a Stone and a Rock.

[Chapter 114] And our hearts are thus circumcised from evil, so that we are happy to die for the name of the good Rock, which causes living water to burst forth for the hearts of those who by Him have loved the Father of all, and which gives those who are willing to drink of the water of life.

Saint Justin Martyr also identifies Rock as representing the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

Shepherd of Hermas:

[Parable 9, Chapter 12] First of all, sir, I said, explain this to me: What is the meaning of the rock and the gate? This rock, he answered, and this gate are the Son of God.

The author of this work clearly identifies the Lord Jesus Christ as rock.

 

Tertullian: An Answer to the Jews

[Chapter 9] For, because Jesus Christ was to introduce the second people (which is composed of us nations, lingering deserted in the world aforetime into the land of promise, flowing with milk and honey (that is, into the possession of eternal life, than which nought is sweeter); and this had to come about, not through Moses (that is, not through the Law's discipline), but through Joshua (that is, through the new law's grace), after our circumcision with a knife of rock (that is, with Christ's precepts, for Christ is in many ways and figures predicted as a rock; therefore the man who was being prepared to act as images of this sacrament was inaugurated under the figure of the Lord's name, even so as to be named Jesus.

Tertullian: The Prescription Against Heretics

Was anything withheld from the knowledge of Peter, who is called the rock on which the church should be built, who also obtained the keys of the kingdom of heaven, with the power of loosing and binding in heaven and on earth?

Tertullian: Five Books Against Marcion

[Book 4, Chapter 13] Again, He changes the name of Simon to Peter, inasmuch as the Creator also altered the names of Abram, and Sarai, and Oshea, by calling the latter Joshua, and adding a syllable to each of the former. But why Peter? If it was because of the vigour of his faith, there were many solid materials which might lend a name from their strength. Was it because Christ was both a rock and a stone? For we read of His being placed for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence. I omit the rest of the passage. Therefore He would fain impart to the dearest of His disciples a name which was suggested by one of His own especial designations in figure; because it was, I suppose, more peculiarly fit than a name which might have been derived from no figurative description of Himself.

[Book 5, Chapter 5] The very stumbling-block which he declares Christ to be to the Jews, points unmistakeably to the Creator's prophecy respecting Him, when by Isaiah He says: Behold I lay in Sion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offence. This rock or stone is Christ. This stumbling-stone Marcion retains still.

Tertullian: On Modesty

[Chapter 21] If, because the Lord has said to Peter, Upon this rock will I build My Church, to thee have I given the keys of the heavenly kingdom; or, Whatsoever thou shall have bound or loosed in earth, shall be bound or loosed in the heavens, you therefore presume that the power of binding and loosing has derived to you, that is, to every Church akin to Peter, what sort of man are you, subverting and wholly changing the manifest intention of the Lord, conferring (as that intention did) this (gift) personally upon Peter? On thee, He says, will I build My Church; and, I will give to thee the keys, not to the Church; and, Whatsoever thou shall have based or bound, not what they shall have loosed or bound.

The first two extracts are from works written during Tertullian's Orthodox Catholic period (i.e. before joining the Montanist heresy). The knife of rock refers to Joshua 5:3 and 24:30 (LXX). His statement that the Lord Jesus Christ was in many ways and figures predicted as a rock is quite explicit. Yet, he does identify the rock as Peter. The third and fourth extracts are taken from a work written during Tertullian's so-called semi-Montanist period. One suggests that the Apostle is given his name change because of his faith, the other clearly identifies Christ as the rock. The final extract, taken from a work written when he was a Montanist, explicitly identifies rock and Peter, yet also explicitly denies that the promise is conveyed to the successors of Peter. In all, because of his heresy and lack of a clear and definitive statement on the meaning of rock, Tertullian is not a useful source.

 

Cyprian: Epistles

[15:4] For what do you ask from the Lord's mercy which you do not deserve to obtain? — you who have thus observed the Lord's commands, who have maintained the Gospel discipline with the simple vigour of your faith, who, with the glory of your virtue uncorrupted, have stood bravely by the Lord's commands, and by His apostles, and have confirmed the wavering faith of many by the truth of your martyrdom? Truly, Gospel witnesses, and truly, Christ's martyrs, resting upon His roots, founded with strong foundation upon the Rock, you have joined discipline with virtue, you have brought others to the fear of God, you have made your martyrdoms, examples.

[26:1] Our Lord, whose precepts and admonitions we ought to observe, describing the honour of a bishop and the order of His Church, speaks in the Gospel, and says to Peter: I say unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock will I build my Church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Thence, through the changes of times and successions, the ordering of bishops and the plan of the Church flow onwards; so that the Church is founded upon the bishops, and every act of the Church is controlled by these same rulers.

[62:8] If they shall thirst, he says, He shall lead them through the deserts, shall bring forth water for them out of the rock; the rock shall be cloven, and the water shall flow, and my people shall drink; which is fulfilled in the Gospel, when Christ, who is the Rock, is cloven by a stroke of the spear in His passion; who also, admonishing what was before announced by the prophet, cries and says, If any man thirst, let him come and drink. He that believeth on me, as the Scripture saith, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

The first and third of these passages clearly identify the rock as the Lord Jesus Christ. The middle passage, quoting the passage from Matthew, appears to identify all bishops as the rock inasmuch as it declares that the Church is founded upon the bishops.

 

The next passage to consider is Saint Cyprian's The Unity of the Catholic Church. Often cited by papal apologists, this work exists in two versions. Here is papal scholar William A. Jurgens' comment on Saint Cyprian's work in his three-volume compendium The Faith of the Early Fathers:

Chapter four of the work is extant in two recensions, the one with so-called additions having generally been regarded as an interpolated version until in 1902 Dom Chapman established the fact that both are from the pen of Cyprian himself. In Chapman's view the edition having the word <primacy> and other expressions interpretable as referring to Roman primacy was a re-working of the original, made by Cyprian himself, rather than a maliciously interpolated version. His theory is now very generally accepted, with one important difference, however, that the version with the so-called primacy additions is to be regarded as Cyprian's original, while the version without those phrases is regarded as Cyprian's own re-casting of the work. Cyprian's revised version, his second edition, is actually the longer; but it has omitted those phrases of the original version which were extremely favorable to the Roman claims of primacy.

According to this latter view, Cyprian's choice of words in the original form of the work would have been read in Rome as recognition of the universal authority over the whole Church, which Rome claimed. Cyprian, indeed, recognized that the Bishop of Rome held some kind of a special and primatial position; but he had not thought of it as implying a universal jurisdiction. Bévenot puts the matter very succinctly in the introduction to his translation of the work in question, Vol. 25 of the series Ancient Christian Writers, pp. 7-8:

At Rome, where there were no doubts about its Bishop's authority over the whole Church, Cyprian's original text could not fail to be read as recognition of that fact. If in the course of the baptismal controversy this was, as it were, thrown in his teeth, he will have exclaimed, quite truthfully: But I never meant that! — and so he toned it down in his revised version. He did not, then, repudiate what he had formerly held. He had never held that the Pope possessed universal jurisdiction. But he had never denied it either; in truth he had never asked himself the question where the final authority in the Church might be . . . If the foregoing reconstruction is correct, we have in Cyprian's De ecclesiae catholicae unitate a good example of what a dogma can look like while still in an early stage of development. The reality (in this case, the Primacy of Rome) is there all the time: it may be recognized by some; by others it may even be denied, and that though much of what they say or do unconsciously implies it. . . . Cyprian is a standing example of what we mean when we speak of the Papal Primacy being implicit in the early Church.

In the opinion of this writer, the claim by the translator in Ancient Christian Writers that Saint Cyprian never asked himself the question where the final authority in the Church might be is ridiculous. The supposition that Cyprian revised the work in response to having the first version thrown in his teeth is quite reasonable. But it seems more reasonable to interpret the revision as correcting a text that had proven itself capable of being abused by those who wished to increase the authority and prestige of the bishop of Old Rome. Cyprian's revised version clearly states Indeed, the other Apostles were that also which Peter was, being endowed with an equal portion of dignity and power. In this writer's opinion, when an author revises an earlier text, it is the later version which is to be preferred since it is based upon greater maturity and perspective.

So as to keep this essay from becoming excruciatingly lengthy, we will refrain from providing additional citations from patristic sources. The truth is that there are no interpretations from the earliest centuries that support the modern Papal Christian interpretation. In the judgement of Henry Chadwick in his definitive text The Early Church:

But before the third century there was no call for a sustained, theoretical justification of this leadership. All were brethren, but the church in Rome was accepted as first among equals. The Petrine text of Matthew 16:18, Thou art Peter and upon this rock I will build my Church, cannot be seen to have played any part in the story of Roman leadership and authority before the middle of the third century when the passionate disagreement between Cyprian of Carthage and Stephen of Rome about baptism apparently led Stephen to invoke the text as part of his defence against Cyprian. But it was not until Damasus in 382 that this Petrine text seriously began to become important as providing a theological and scriptural foundation on which claims to Primacy were based.

Having looked at the writings of the Pre-Nicene Fathers, we can now ask if the Papal Christian interpretation that identifies the Apostle Peter with the rock on which the Church is built withstands the test of universality and antiquity and consent. Was such an identification found throughout the world? Based upon the above, it does not appear that such an identification was widespread. Was such an identification extant from the earliest years? Again, it appears that such a belief was not present. The judgement of Chadwick is clear that Matthew 16:18 was not understood in the Pre-Nicene Church as it is now interpreted by Papal Christianity. Was such an identification attacked as inconsistent with the Apostolic Faith? It appears that because this view was not proposed in the early Church, no Father had a need to compose a refutation. However, we know that once Rome began to claim an identification between the Apostle Peter and the rock on which the Church was built, there were refutations. Thus, the identification of the Apostle Peter with the rock on which the Church is built does not seem to withstand the test of consent (although in the earliest times no explicit rejection may be found), but it clearly fails the tests of universality and antiquity. For this reason it cannot be claimed that the belief that the Church is founded on the Apostle Peter (as claimed by Papal Christianity) is catholic truth. In other words, it is not the faith of the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.

 

Author  Thomas Ross Valentine.

Site http://www.geocities.com/trvalentine/orthodox/rock.html

 


TOPICS: Apologetics
KEYWORDS: rock; saintpeter; yopios
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Guide line for posting to this open thread.

Please do not post a bunch of links to refute or to say something. No one will read them. This thread is for discussion for discourse and that discussion and discourse can become heated at times. If any poster can not stand the heat of open discussion then stay on the caucus, prayer or devotional threads. No personal attacks and do not make the topic of a response personal that way the religious monitor will not have to slap any hands.

Open threads are a town square. Antagonism though not encouraged, should be expected Posters may argue for or against beliefs of any kind. They may tear down other’s beliefs. They may ridicule. On all threads, but particularly “open” threads, posters must never “make it personal.” Reading minds and attributing motives are forms of “making it personal.” Making a thread “about” another Freeper is “making it personal.” When in doubt, review your use of the pronoun “you” before hitting “enter.” Like the Smoky Backroom, the conversation may be offensive to some. Thin-skinned posters will be booted from “open” threads because in the town square, they are the disrupters.

1 posted on 09/25/2008 3:35:54 PM PDT by guitarplayer1953
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To: guitarplayer1953

James Joyce said it was just a pun. You know, “Peter”/”rock”.


2 posted on 09/25/2008 3:41:28 PM PDT by Tublecane
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To: guitarplayer1953
Who is the Rock?

And can you guess what he's cooking?

3 posted on 09/25/2008 3:45:27 PM PDT by Old Sarge (Illic Haud Deus Est)
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To: Tublecane

4 posted on 09/25/2008 3:48:45 PM PDT by fso301
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To: guitarplayer1953
Clearly the Lord Jesus Christ is here identified as the Rock.

Since Simon’s new name of Peter itself means rock, the sentence ( "You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church" (Matt. 16:18) could be rewritten as: "You are Rock and upon this rock I will build my Church." The play on words seems obvious.

From the grammatical point of view, the phrase "this rock" must relate back to the closest noun. Peter’s profession of faith ("You are the Christ, the Son of the living God") is two verses earlier, while his name, a proper noun, is in the immediately preceding clause.

As an analogy, consider this artificial sentence: "I have a car and a truck, and it is blue." Which is blue? The truck, because that is the noun closest to the pronoun "it." This is all the more clear if the reference to the car is two sentences earlier, as the reference to Peter’s profession is two sentences earlier than the term rock.

Hence, the rock is Peter.

5 posted on 09/25/2008 4:02:14 PM PDT by NYer ("Ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ." - St. Jerome)
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To: guitarplayer1953
Christ spoke Aramaic and that the same word — ke'pha' — would have been spoken by the Lord for both Πέτρος and πέτρᾳ

Although Our Lord, I'm certain, spoke and understood Aramaic.....it was not His language. He spoke Hebrew....and He spoke it with a Galilean accent.

The fact that a major religion of this world lives and dies on the myth that Our Lord's main language was Aramaic.....is simply laughable.

6 posted on 09/25/2008 4:41:06 PM PDT by Diego1618
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To: NYer
Historical writing of the time do not state this it was not until much later when Rome claimed to be the church because of Peter.
7 posted on 09/25/2008 4:46:27 PM PDT by guitarplayer1953 (Psalm 83:1-8 is on the horizon.)
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To: guitarplayer1953
Some typos have crept into the Greek.

In the first line, the fifth word should be sigma-upsilon, not omicron-upsilon.

In the next line, after the sixth word (kai) the next word should be pylai (pi-upsilon-lambda-alpha-iota). Two words later, immediately after the Greek word meaning "of Hades" it should just have the negative ou (omicron-upsilon), not kai pyou. Pyou doesn't make any sense here and is clearly a running together of the first syllable of pylai with ou. Gremlins.

In 16:19, the UBS edition has no kai at the start, and has kleidas instead of kleis a few words later, but perhaps that represents different manuscript readings (since kleis is sometimes found as a contraction of kleidas).

8 posted on 09/25/2008 5:21:44 PM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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To: Verginius Rufus
It may be to that the Greek letters did not come out from the site to the article.
9 posted on 09/25/2008 5:51:01 PM PDT by guitarplayer1953 (Psalm 83:1-8 is on the horizon.)
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To: Diego1618
Although Our Lord, I'm certain, spoke and understood Aramaic.....it was not His language. He spoke Hebrew....and He spoke it with a Galilean accent.

Beyond your own wishful thinking, you haven't the slightest evidence to back up your assertion. Consider:

Q: What language is Matthew 27:46 quoting?

A: Aramaic

Q: From what language does Peter's name "Kephas," used numerous times in the New Testament, derive?

A: Aramaic

Q: What language is "Talitha cumi" (Little girl, I say to you, arise) written in, as found in Mark 5:41?

A: Aramaic.

So, in every example where Jesus is quoted without translation in the New Testament, He is speaking Aramaic, and His listeners (including a little girl who was likely too young to be bi-lingual) was presumed to understand the Aramaic He spoke.

What is particularly telling is the fact that Simon bar Jonah is referred to as "Kephas" in 9 places in the New Testament, once in John, and eight times in St. Paul's letters. This is "Kepha" transformed to "Kephas" to meet the requirements of the rules of Greek grammar. Don't let the English "Cephas" fool you; the original Greek for all nine of these citations says "Kephas," or the grammatical ending corresponding to the nominative "Kephas" when the case is other than the nominative. It is irrefutable that the word Christ spoke was "Kepha."

This being so, we know that Kepha in Aramaic meant "Rock." We therefore know that Jesus said, "You are Rock, and on this rock I will build my Church." Since, in the Aramaic, the words are the same, and separated by only a few words, it is clear that the word "this" refers to the antecedent noun, "Rock" rather than to a confession of faith occurring two whole verses earlier. Jesus certainly bestows this title on SImon as a "reward" for that confession, but the reference to "on this rock" clearly refers to the previous use of the word, and NOT the confession of faith, however much that confession spurred the reward of name change for Simon.

Also, consider that, EVEN IF Peter's name meant "little stone" (which it really didn't at the time, and under the form of Greek the NT was written in), it STILL had great significance. First, it was a name change of a person made by God. Each other time, before or after, such a thing occurred, something particularly significant in the vocation of the person in question was about to take place. Also, EVEN IF Peter meant "little stone," it would STILL be an allusion to the title of God as "Rock," a title no Catholic would deny exists. In other words, the name change signified, no matter how much of a diminutive one wants to give it (and, again, there really was no diminutive in play here) that Jesus was giving to Simon bar Jonah a unique authority, sharing some of His divine prerogatives with a mere man. This is confirmed by the power of the keys granted in the next verses. Jesus was making Peter His Prime Minister, and giving him power accordingly. The name change only added to the significance of Jesus' action.

The fact that a major religion of this world lives and dies on the myth that Our Lord's main language was Aramaic.....is simply laughable.

I find it ironic that you should say this, since you seem obsessed with only a couple of issues yourself: this business of Aramaic vs. Hebrew you harp on, and the issue of the Sabbath observance (with a sidebar to that of what day of the week Easter fell on).

10 posted on 09/25/2008 6:26:32 PM PDT by magisterium
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To: guitarplayer1953

“Rome” does not claim to be “the church” at all. Know what you’re talking about before you comment like this. In any event, Second Century bishops of Rome (known colloquially, by the Third Century as “popes”) are seen regularly exercising their universal authority in the writings of the contemporary Fathers of the Church. Indeed, Pope Clement, writing at the end of the First Century, even while the Apostle John still lived, is clearly seen exercising his universal jurisdiction in his Letter to the Corinthians.

If the Church got so much so wrong even by the Second Century, it bodes ill for Jesus’ claim to divinity if His promises to be with the Church all days, and His sending of the Holy SPirit to it, in order to make it the “pillar and bulwark of the Truth” fell apart so early on.

Think of the implications.


11 posted on 09/25/2008 6:33:59 PM PDT by magisterium
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To: guitarplayer1953; Religion Moderator
**Please do not post a bunch of links to refute or to say something.**

The Religion Moderator doesn't say that! LOL!

Guidelines for Religion Forum threads

But then, maybe you are the Religion Moderator. LOL!

12 posted on 09/25/2008 6:45:27 PM PDT by Salvation ( †With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Salvation

That is true but I emailed him and I ask what I could add to his guide line and that is one of the things I added. I never said that the guidelines were from the RM. But if you want to post abunch of links feel free to do so but I would not count on anyone checking them out.


13 posted on 09/25/2008 7:07:38 PM PDT by guitarplayer1953 (Psalm 83:1-8 is on the horizon.)
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To: guitarplayer1953
The truth will prevail somehow.

FYI, these links have Scripture in them too.

The Early Church Fathers on Apostolic Succession - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus

The Early Church Fathers on The Primacy of Peter/Rome (Catholic/Orthodox Caucus)

Surely people will check out only TWO references.

14 posted on 09/25/2008 7:13:05 PM PDT by Salvation ( †With God all things are possible.†)
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To: guitarplayer1953; Religion Moderator
I appreciate you checking with the Religion Moderator, but I look at it in a slightly different vein.

Why should a whole bunch of posts argue against a point that has already been presented? In the two samples I gave, the Catholic viewpoint is presented. I do not find that reprehensible at all, but rather a vehicle to educating Protestants about Catholic beliefs.

You know that Catholics suffer through long posts of Scriptrue from various posters, offering our Catholic point of view, but never putting the Scripture down. Many Protestants have been educated in their churches in such a way so that some view the Catholic Church as evil. That just isn't true.

Therefore in offering links where the subject has been discussed, defined, and discussed some more I judge as being totally honorable. Your initial post, to me, made me think that posting links was NOT an honorable thing to do.

It doesn't really matter if you read the links or not. The information is put forth in brotherly correction. And you and I both know that at the moment of our death we will have to answer for the times we did not offer that brotherly correction.

15 posted on 09/25/2008 7:25:34 PM PDT by Salvation ( †With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Salvation

You say brotherly correction, but if you will notice this is a open discussion. Now I could of posted it as a closed discussion making it a caucus, but I didn’t. Non Catholics are willing to look at topics and discuss them because we are more open to the truth of scripture and not afraid that some traditions are wrong and need to be corrected.


16 posted on 09/25/2008 8:00:01 PM PDT by guitarplayer1953 (Psalm 83:1-8 is on the horizon.)
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To: guitarplayer1953
Non Catholics are willing to look at topics and discuss them because we are more open to the truth of scripture and not afraid that some traditions are wrong and need to be corrected.

Wow...just, wow. Far be it from us Cat'licks trying to post a thread once in awhile whereby we can get a respite from the venom tossed our way on this Forum. We should absolutely open them to the greatest hits:

You're right. We're afraid of Scripture. It has nothing to do with growing tried of fighting the same fights over and over and over...

17 posted on 09/25/2008 8:20:18 PM PDT by thefrankbaum (Ad maiorem Dei gloriam)
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To: thefrankbaum
Like I said this is not a CAUCUS. Why don't you post an article that state a tradition and leave it open for debate? This article looks at the texts and discuss it. It looks at the historical and grammatical of the text and disuses it. If you want to say that Peter is the Rock then you have to say that he is the devil too. Jesus called him SATAN.
18 posted on 09/25/2008 8:56:14 PM PDT by guitarplayer1953 (Psalm 83:1-8 is on the horizon.)
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To: magisterium
Beyond your own wishful thinking, you haven't the slightest evidence to back up your assertion. Consider: Q: What language is Matthew 27:46 quoting?

Hebrew. Strong's #2241. eli (ay-lee') of Hebrew origin ('el with pronominal suffix); my God

Strong's #2982. lama (lam-ah') or lamma lam-mah'; of Hebrew origin (mah with prepositional prefix); lama (i.e. why)

Strong's #4518. sabachthani (sab-akh-than-ee') of Chaldee or (shbaq with pronominal suffix); thou hast left me; sabachthani (i.e. shebakthani), a cry of distress

Now....let's look at [Psalms 22:1]....in the Hebrew: אֵלִ֣י אֵ֭לִי לָמָ֣ה עֲזַבְתָּ֑נִי רָח֥וֹק מִֽ֝ישׁוּעָתִ֗י דִּבְרֵ֥י שַׁאֲגָתִֽי׃ and in the English phonetics: ’ēlî ’ēlî lāmâ ‘ăzaḇətānî rāḥwōq mîšû‘āṯî diḇərê ša’ăḡāṯî:

Hebrew and Aramaic were both semetic languages with many similarities....but the scripture you quoted was written by Matthew himself.....and he wrote it in the Hebrew (later translated to Greek).....just like the Hebrew Psalmist wrote it.

From what language does Peter's name "Kephas," used numerous times in the New Testament, derive?

The fact that Peter had an Aramaic nickname is not surprising in the least. Our Lord and all of the disciples came from Galilee and this area had been resettled by the King of Assyria with many folks of Chaldean heritage. [II Kings 17:24] And the king of Assyria brought men from Babylon, and from Cuthah, and from Ava, and from Hamath, and from Sepharvaim, and placed them in the cities of Samaria instead of the children of Israel: and they possessed Samaria, and dwelt in the cities thereof. It would be natural for them to pick many mannerisms and accents of the Aramaic....but they still spoke Hebrew.

Notice here from Eusebius (early Church Father) speaking of Matthew: Eusebius, (H.E. 3.24.6) Matthew had first preached to Hebrews, and when he was on the point of going to others he transmitted in writing in his native language the Gospel according to himself, and thus supplied by writing the lack of his own presence to those from whom he was sent."

And this is what Origen had to say: Origen (Eusebius, H.E. 6.25.4) As having learnt by tradition concerning the four Gospels, which alone are unquestionable in the Assembly of God under heaven, that first was written according to Matthew, who was once a tax collector but afterwards an apostle of Jesus Christ, who published it for those who from Judaism came to believe, composed as it was in the Hebrew language.

Matthew was also from Galilee and along with Peter (who spoke with a Galilean accent) and Our Lord.....spoke in Hebrew, their native language!

This is one of the main reasons Peter was immediately accused as "Being one of them" [Matthew 26:73]. He spoke Hebrew.....but with a Galilean accent.

What language is "Talitha cumi" (Little girl, I say to you, arise) written in, as found in Mark 5:41?

Strong's #5008. talitha (tal-ee-thah') of Chaldee origin (compare taleh); the fresh, i.e. young girl; talitha (O maiden). # 2891. koumi (koo'-mee) of Chaldee origin (quwm); cumi (i.e. rise!)

Hebrew is of Chaldee origin....just as Aramaic is of Chaldee origin. Mark was not an eyewitness to the events. He wrote down exactly what he heard Peter say.....as as shown earlier, Peter spoke Hebrew....and he spoke it with a Galilean (Chaldee) accent. But his native language was Hebrew....as was Our Lords.

So, in every example where Jesus is quoted without translation in the New Testament, He is speaking Aramaic, and His listeners (including a little girl who was likely too young to be bi-lingual) was presumed to understand the Aramaic He spoke.

I don't believe I ever said Our Lord could not speak Aramaic. What I said was.....He spoke Hebrew as his native language....with a Galilean accent. He could speak any language. He spoke to the Roman [Matthew 8:5-13] Centurion. The Centurion probably spoke Latin or Greek! He spoke with Pilate [John 18:28-38]. It's doubtful that Pilate spoke Aramaic.....maybe, but doubtful.

What is particularly telling is the fact that Simon bar Jonah is referred to as "Kephas" in 9 places in the New Testament, once in John, and eight times in St. Paul's letters. This is "Kepha" transformed to "Kephas" to meet the requirements of the rules of Greek grammar. Don't let the English "Cephas" fool you; the original Greek for all nine of these citations says "Kephas," or the grammatical ending corresponding to the nominative "Kephas" when the case is other than the nominative. It is irrefutable that the word Christ spoke was "Kepha."

There's nothing strange about this at all. I have employees with Spanish names who are called by the American counterpart. So what! Peter was called that probably as an sign of affection. Like I said....they all grew up among descendants of Assyrians....Chaldeans who all spoke Aramaic.

The thing you folks have to realize is that the language of the Hebrews was "Lashon Ha-Kodesh"...the sacred language of the Israelites which was chronicled in the Torah. It was part of every young Jewish boy's education.... and Hebrew was studied from a very early age and spoken in all Judean households.....as the native language.

Jesus is speaking Hebrew here: [Luke 2:39-42] and here: [Luke 4:16]. He would not use the terms Jot and Tittle if He were speaking to folks who did not understood Hebrew. They are Hebrew terms.....regarding the Law. He is speaking Hebrew here: [Matthew 5:18]. He speaks to the Apostle (yet to be) Paul here: [Acts 26:14] And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

The Apostle Paul was a very educated man who I'm sure also spoke fluent Aramaic. Why didn't The Lord take advantage of that? Why does Paul speak Hebrew here? [Acts 21:40] And when he had given him licence, Paul stood on the stairs, and beckoned with the hand unto the people. And when there was made a great silence, he spake unto them in the Hebrew tongue, saying, And the folks immediately shut up.....[Acts 22:2] (And when they heard that he spake in the Hebrew tongue to them, they kept the more silence: and he saith,) It wasn't because they did not understand him....it was because they finally had someone speaking to them in their own language. The commander of the guard had probably been speaking in Greek or Latin. These passages show that Hebrew was the language of Jerusalem!

I find it ironic that you should say this, since you seem obsessed with only a couple of issues yourself: this business of Aramaic vs. Hebrew you harp on, and the issue of the Sabbath observance (with a sidebar to that of what day of the week Easter fell on)

There are many issues I take with your organization and this is only but one. I do find it amazing that in light of all the evidence you people still must dance around the obvious and claim something that is neither scriptural or factual. This is an attempt to shore up your hopeless theology. To prove Peter's non existent primacy you take words that are obviously Hebrew and try to make the world see it different. The problem is that most folks don't take the time to investigate your motives. Since the onslaught of hatred for "anything Jewish" by you people you have systematically attempted to erase anything of a Hebrew background for Our Lord. I think many folks are beginning to see through your silliness.

19 posted on 09/25/2008 8:57:23 PM PDT by Diego1618
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To: Salvation; guitarplayer1953

There are no guidelines for or against using lists of links as a style of posting.


20 posted on 09/25/2008 8:59:17 PM PDT by Religion Moderator
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