??
Posted on 09/21/2008 9:45:44 PM PDT by Coleus
ANSWER: According to the website of the Global Catholic Network the answer seems to be Palin. The site states that "once a person willingly repudiates Christ, embraces a heresy, knowing it to be contrary to divine and Catholic faith, or refuses submission to the Roman Pontiff (or communion with the members of the Church subject to him), by virtue of the law itself they are automatically excommunicated. No ecclesiastical act is necessary and no public notice."
Palin was baptized Catholic according to the McCain campaign. Her abandonment of Catholicism and subsequent attendance at other churches that question Catholic orthodoxy seems to fit this definition of heresy:
"Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same ..."
As for Biden, he's close to the edge but seems not to have gone over it. He has been warned about his behavior in failing to endorse legislation to outlaw abortion, but he has not been formally excommunicated.
Another trivia question: What other reported finalist for the Republican vice-presidential nomination also meets the above definition for self-excommunication from the Catholic Church?
(Excerpt) Read more at blog.nj.com ...
It seems to me that the correct way of looking at this would be to say that, if Palin was actually a baptized Catholic, both Palin and Biden have incurred ipso facto excommunication (in Palin's case, for heresy - or apostasy if she was "rebaptized"; and in Biden's, for facilitating abortion), and not that Palin has been formally excummunicated and Biden not excommunicated at all.
I may not undertand your reply. But many of the changes in the Church that began with the 2nd Vatican Council that were so disconcerting to more traditional Catholics took years to go into effect. They then had to grapple with those changes over a period of time. People don’t just walk away from their birth religion overnight. So I can easily see how a family that could no longer identify with the Church as they knew it would take till ‘76 to make a final decision to leave and to find another church.
Sarah Palin seems to be the only follower of the Christ on either ticket.shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach Adonai
Perhaps Coleus wants to expose Mulshine as an idiot who doesn't know what he's talking about.
You're darn right it isn't so: the Catholic Church does NOT teach or believe this.
Who are you to judge that?
“or refuses submission to the Roman Pontiff...”
We are to submit to Christ, not the “Roman Pontiff.”
It’s astonishing the falsehoods Catholics say!
Imagine for a moment you are a Private in the United States Army. You are required to follow any lawful order given by the President. You are also required to follow any lawful order given by your Commanding Officer. Are the President and your Lieutenant equal?
Here's the answer...NO! The Officer receives his authority from the President. The Pope receives his authority from Christ. Hierarchies are natural in God's Creation (see: food chain, angels, etc.) - why would His Church be any different?
??
Who are you to judge that “Sarah Palin seems to be the only follower of the Christ on either ticket?”
It is not judgement; it is discernment by the Ru'ach HaKodesh (Holy Spirit).
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach Adonai
At least Sarah Palin, John McCain and Joe Biden believe in the Holy Trinity.
Utter hogwash! You've been around this forum plenty long enough to know, from literally thousands of individual postings, that the Catholic Church does not teach this, nor do its members believe this. Deliberate calumny is a sin, you know. How many times can you state something like this, which you know has been strenuously denied over and over, and for which not a shred of unbiased evidence exist, before conscience sets in?
No where in the Bible does it state that one is to submit to a Pope or an Apostle.
Does the Bible use the word "submit"? No. But it does speak of the office of "bishop" (episkopos, in Greek) who have authority. Do you know what "episkopos" means, literally translated? Overseer! St. Paul speaks of his own "authority" on a number of occasions, including several instances in 2 Corinthians chapters 10 and 13 alone. Other Apostles had the same authority. So did the next generation of bishops that they consecrated. Read 2 Timothy chapter 4 in this light. You will see that the bishops of the early Church had authority over the rest, and that the Church was, therefore, hierarchical in its nature from the beginning.
But you really need to lose this "Catholics think the Pope is equivalent to Christ" bit. It does not become you, and more people than you seem to know see the argument as simply ridiculous.
All baptized Catholics who have left the Church can come back. It is a simple procedure of sitting down with a priest and talking about the things that are blocking the way.
Perhaps it was a previous marriage, and an annulment is needed. Perhaps it was a previous adhering to Catholic Cafeteria beliefs (such as same-sex marriages), and all that needs to be done is further education.
Of course, the Sacrament of Reconciliation will follow, with a firm resolve not to commit that sin again as well as sincere repentance.
FReepmail me if you want to talk.
**Better an ex-Catholic than a current moron.**
I certainly hope you are not bashing Catholics.
You can’t be Catholic and pro-abortion, period. This excludes Biden, Pelosi, Kerry, Kennedy and a host of others. Pro-choice is a double whammy for them. Besides promoting infanticide, it also goes to the notion that they can pick and choose whichever tenets of Catholicism that suits them and reject the others. It doesn’t work that way.
Another point of interest here. Unless Palin has filled out loads of paperwork, sat infront of a board of priests and formally denounced the Catholic faith, she is STILL a Catholic.
This is article, in my judgment, is a hit piece, both on Sarah and Catholicism.
You could say that that no one should submit to anyone in any way whatsoever since we should all submit to Christ. But then when you tell your child, "You should obey me because I am your parent," or "You should do thus and such because it's Doctor's orders," will I be justified in saying that you believe that parents or doctors are equivalent to Christ?
Theology takes thoughtfulness. If thoughtfulness is not a value and is therefore not exercised, lousy theology will follow as the night the day.
I thought he meant the ex-Catholic is Palin and the current moron is Biden.
***....her views are in line with Catholic teaching on EVERY critical subject.***
What’s her stand on the Pope, nature of the elements, the Apocrypha, etc...
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