Posted on 08/21/2008 8:12:08 AM PDT by Alex Murphy
Dottie Zimmerman is a 63-year-old mother of three, an award-winning religion teacher at a Toledo Catholic school, a former Ursuline nun, and a director of the Children's Theatre Workshop.
For the last five years, Mrs. Zimmerman also says she has been "channeling" Padre Pio, letting the dead Italian Catholic saint mystically speak through her.
It is a "gift," she said, and although she never asked for it she believes she must use it to help others, especially children.
Last month, Mrs. Zimmerman channeled the saint during a meeting of the Toledo Lightworkers Co-op, a group of people who explore alternative spirituality.
It was the fifth or sixth time she has publicly channeled Padre Pio, a Capuchin friar from Pietrelcina, Italy, who was known for bearing stigmata, or the wounds of Christ, on his hands and feet. He died in 1968 at age 81 and was canonized by Pope John Paul II in 2002.
Mrs. Zimmerman said in a recent interview that although she doesn't channel Padre Pio publicly very often, she hears from him almost daily.
"He'll make these pithy little comments. He has a wonderful sense of humor," she said. "One of the things that he insists is that we breathe deeply and we laugh - love, laugh, and breathe are his three words."
An eighth-grade religion teacher at St. Patrick of Heatherdowns School for nearly 30 years, Mrs. Zimmerman said she felt as though spiritual conversations had been percolating within her for years before she began to explore her gift...
(Excerpt) Read more at toledoblade.com ...
You are using some sort of "judgment call" to decide this woman is a heretic, but practice the same daily because you "pray" to an "approved" dead person. This is EXACTLY what Scripture forbids. It's all about Jesus, for Jesus, and no one else but Jesus. We all know Moses made it to heaven and Elijah,(Transfiguration), but do Catholics pray to them? Jesus specifically farbade the Apostles from worshiping them.
I never even suggested praying to anyone but Jesus.
Read 1 Tim. 2:5.
I have. Many times. In the original Greek as well.
So your saying Pio is dead?
No, I am saying that he's in heaven.
I understand being alive in Christ, but they are still dead to the world.
I am a Christian, and therefore do not view reality through a worldly paradigm.
The Bible is explicit that you can't reach them.
No one is talking about "reaching."
Reference the rich man trying to cross the gulf to tell his family to repent.
Was the rich man in heaven?
Once you pass over, you cannot communicate back here.
That isn't even the issue under discussion. The issue is whether people in heaven can hear me.
Praying to Mary is blasphemy and if you get an answer, it's a demon, not Mary.
No one prays to Mary. People ask Mary to pray for them.
Jesus died for the Glory of being our Mediator.
Jesus didn't die for glory. He died for love.
To take that honor from Him is blasphemy!
That's certainly a completely unrelated concern from what I am talking about.
There is NO substitute and NO Scripture to back up the practice.
The Scripture clearly shows believers asking other believers to pray for them.
In fact there are numerous verses forbidding talking to the dead.
Again we are not discussing the dead, but people to whom Christ promised life everlasting. I do not imagine that He lied in His promise.
Mary is no different than Pio, or uncle Frank.
Not according to the Scriptures she isn't.
Why would necromancy be illegal in the Scripture, but OK if it's the "right" person?
You don't seem to understand the difference between "necromancy" (conjuring up the spirit of a dead person to give you information) and "intercession" (one Christian asking another Christian to pray for them).
You are using some sort of "judgment call" to decide this woman is a heretic, but practice the same daily because you "pray" to an "approved" dead person.
Of course, I am not in the practice of praying to any mere person, let alone a dead person.
And there is no judgment call involved - this woman claims to have people who are in heaven (and even elsewhere) using her mouth and hands as a medium for speaking to people on earth. What she is talking about, in other words, is deliberate inviation to possession. That is a very clearcut sin.
This is EXACTLY what Scripture forbids.
You aren't very clear on what Scripture forbids since you seem to believe that Scripture forbids Christians asking other Christians to pray for them.
We all know Moses made it to heaven and Elijah,(Transfiguration), but do Catholics pray to them?
Catholics don't pray to anyone but God. You seem to live in an imaginary world where Catholics pray to people.
Jesus specifically farbade the Apostles from worshiping them.
The Apostles never suggested worshipping either Moses or Elijah, and Jesus never had to warn them not to.
Perhaps you could cite for us the specific verse of Scripture in which Jesus forbids the Apostles to worship Elijah or Moses.
Ask a Jew about idols. They wouldn't even allow a picture on their money. Look at any Catholic gathering and they carry pictures, statues, cases with relics, almost anything they can to take away from Jesus. I'm waiting for the golden calf to be hoisted up in the next parade.
The Bible has a whole bunch of verses for the "Harlot" church in Revelation and you are asked to "come out of her". She has "whored" herself with the kings of the world and sold out over and over throughout history. Christianity isn't about a denomination. It's about Jesus and faith in His teachings. You've been around enough to know all the arguments and you won't change the way I read Scripture, and I won't change your mind about what you've been taught. I've read your comments before. You are a good person, but are just mislead and only the Holy Spirit can make you see.
What we have here is church worship. If God proved Catholics were wrong, they would still deny God and follow error. The Scriptures talk of not forbidding to marry, not repeating prayers, not praying to anyone but Jesus, not forbidding foods, and on and on, but Catholics keep quoting some 13th century scribes or a some other irrelevant writings to prove their point. That is why Scripture trumps all. The Catholic Church was founded on a mis reading of Scripture and keeps doing it over and over. Remember Satan fooled Eve by misquoting God and Jesus was tempted by Satan mis using Scripture. There is no mention of popes in the Bible, no nuns, no monks, no cardinals, nothing that the Catholics take so much for granted. All of it was for political power over the people. It has nothing to do with Christ and His Church. Why didn't Paul defer to the power allegedly heaped on Peter? In fact Paul had to settle a rift because Peter did not want to preach to the gentiles. Did Luke or John ever defer to Peter? I could make 1000 arguments why Peter wasn't a pope, but you are more afraid of Catholics being wrong that slighting Jesus Christ. If for no other reason, one of the most respected popes of all time John Paul II kissing the Koran should give you pause. If and when the Vatican pronounces we all worship the same God and all have access to salvation through their own means, will you believe then? I believe it will be soon. The whore of Babylon will be one world religion and will deceive many, even some of the elect. In 1 Peter 5:13, where was Peter referring to? I believe you will find he was writing from Rome.
Like I said, I don't expect you to change your mind, but I would hope you would rethink what you have been taught versus what Scripture says. it's so obvious to a non Catholic, but just circular reasoning for the Catholic. It's my job as a believer, to preach the Gospel to all that will listen, but the Holy Spirit is the one that opens your eyes. I have many Catholic friends and the one thing that each one has is some irrational fear that they may be wrong and the Church may not approve of them. It is Christ they should follow not the denomination that their parents told them was the only way to believe. Muslims do the same to their children, and I dare say the FLDS and JW's do the same.
There are many denominations going through upheaval right now. They have error and lies preached from the pulpit and they have now realized their lifelong denomination is fouled with stench. Will they have the strength to follow God or their denomination? If Catholics had the conviction of their alleged faith, we wouldn't have thugs, murderers and crooks elected in Catholic districts. There will most likely be many Catholics vote for Obama this election. Does abortion and homosexuality mean anything? They are just like other denominations. All it will take is a pope that "just wants to get along". Saying you have millions of Catholics means nothing. There are a billion Muslims. Having faith in your denomiantion isn't the same as faith in Jesus Christ. We will be judged by the Word. It's there for anyone to read. Read it correctly and don't be fooled.
The Catholic Church was founded on a mis reading of Scripture
Talking about "mis reading" scripture, I think you just took the grand prize in that event.
I have. They have no problem with a statue of Mary, because Catholics say clearly that Mary isn't God. They have a huge problem with any visual representation of Jesus (whether it's a statue or a flat picture), because Catholics say clearly that Jesus is God.
But they have a huge problem with just saying that Jesus is God, so they think you're just as much an idolater as I am. Bummer, huh?
They wouldn't even allow a picture on their money.
Wrong. Again. The Jews didn't want to use Roman money, because it had a picture of Caesar, who was worshipped as a god. However, they have no problem with pictures of people on money. All modern Israeli banknotes have pictures of men (Israeli political figures) on them.
In other words, only a few have been gullible enough to be tricked by you.
I just try to put the obvious in front of them and they are blinded with scales.
Of course, because you are all-seeing. It is the Catholics who must be blind.
You are told not to have idols, but your houses and cars are full of them.
Really? Or do you not understand the difference between an idol and an image?
I have witnessed many Catholics bowing and praying TO Mary and that is forbidden by anyone's even basic understanding of Scripture.
I'm going to have to say that you have never seen Our Lady in person, let alone seen anyone praying to her.
Catholics keep the mantra that they are asking Mary for a favor when she has none.
I ask Our Lady to do me the favor of praying for me every day. Why would she, alone among every Christian, be incapable of praying for someone? Any Christian can do another Christian that favor.
Jesus is our only Mediator, and you will slyly agree, and then bow to another saint's image.
I'm not really in the habit of bowing, but if I were to bow, to a Japanese client say, would my bow mean that I was praying to him and considering him to be the Lord of the universe? Or would I just be giving him a sign of respect?
Ask a Jew about idols.
Why would a Jew be more knowledgeable about idols than a Christian? What special insight would I gain?
They wouldn't even allow a picture on their money.
But they would allow cherubim on the Ark. Fascinating.
Look at any Catholic gathering and they carry pictures, statues, cases with relics, almost anything they can to take away from Jesus.
Do you have any pictures of your loved ones? Or do you believe that Scripture forbids you to have any? Are you personally offended by the Lincoln Memorial, or statues of our Founding Fathers? Do you refuse to visit museums on principle? Do you own any objects that belonged to a loved one who has passed? Or is your family practice to destroy any physical trace that this loved one existed?
If you do, unimaginably, have any photographs or mementos are you ashamed by the fact that your family album has usurped the place of Jesus in your life?
I'm waiting for the golden calf to be hoisted up in the next parade.
Again, you don't seem to grasp the distinction between an idol and an image.
The Bible has a whole bunch of verses for the "Harlot" church in Revelation and you are asked to "come out of her".
And I think you should come out of your harlot "church."
She has "whored" herself with the kings of the world and sold out over and over throughout history.
Like when she whored herself to Henry VIII and persuaded him to repudiate his wife? Or when she whored herself to Prince Philip and told him he could have two wives at once as long as he kept one of them secret? Or when she whored herself to Margaret Sanger and agreed to tolerate the murder of the unborn? Yes, this "reformed" "church" has much to answer for, indeed.
Christianity isn't about a denomination.
Indeed it isn't.
It's about Jesus and faith in His teachings.
No, it's about Jesus, period. His teachings would be worthless and faith in Him would be worthless if it were not for Who He is and what He did and continues to do.
You've been around enough to know all the arguments and you won't change the way I read Scripture, and I won't change your mind about what you've been taught. I've read your comments before. You are a good person, but are just mislead and only the Holy Spirit can make you see.
I'm a good person? I thought I was a blasphemer, as described above - how does that figure? Perhaps you should question how you read Scripture - because you are not an omniscient reader.
What we have here is church worship.
Interesting comment. Let's explore further.
If God proved Catholics were wrong, they would still deny God and follow error.
How would He "prove" this? By going back on His own Word and sending new angels to teach us a different doctrine? Namely that the Church is not the very Body of Christ? And that it is not the pillar and ground of truth? By altering His own Scripture?
The scenario you propose is exceedingly bizarre and contradictory.
The Scriptures talk of not forbidding to marry, not repeating prayers, not praying to anyone but Jesus, not forbidding foods, and on and on, but Catholics keep quoting some 13th century scribes or a some other irrelevant writings to prove their point.
There's no need to quote anybody. Catholics do not forbid marriage. I'm married myself - did I miss some secret memo? I was married in a Catholic church to boot - by a Catholic priest, no less. This must be a very obscure doctrine indeed.
The Scriptures forbid repeating prayers - and yet they contain the Psalms? That's slightly self-contradictory, wouldn't you say?
Also, I never got the memo about foods being forbidden, either. Which foods am I supposedly banned from eating?
That is why Scripture trumps all.
A statement that is as vague as it needs to be.
The Catholic Church was founded on a mis reading of Scripture and keeps doing it over and over.
The Catholic Church was founded before the New testament was written, so the misreading you are referring to must be a misreading of the Hebrew Scriptures. Which specific Scriptural passage from the Old Testament is the source of this unfortunate misreading?
Remember Satan fooled Eve by misquoting God
No, he fooled Eve by contradicting what God told her.
and Jesus was tempted by Satan mis using Scripture.
But you are, like Jesus, immune to such temptation - while I am not. So apparently you are telling me that Scripture trumps all, except when it is "misused" by creatures.
There is no mention of popes in the Bible, no nuns, no monks, no cardinals, nothing that the Catholics take so much for granted.
So if a specific English word isn't actually used in the Bible, the concept it expresses is invalid. That's an amazing claim, if followed to its conclusion.
All of it was for political power over the people.
LOL! I was unaware that Karl Marx was a theologian that you put stock in! So those monks and nuns that were murdered by Diocletian were just holding back their enormous political power over the Emperor?
It has nothing to do with Christ and His Church.
The Church does not have the power to appoint its own officers?
Bizarre claim.
Why didn't Paul defer to the power allegedly heaped on Peter? In fact Paul had to settle a rift because Peter did not want to preach to the gentiles. Did Luke or John ever defer to Peter?
Apparently you think the Petrine office is primarily about deference. It isn't. Try again.
I could make 1000 arguments why Peter wasn't a pope, but you are more afraid of Catholics being wrong that slighting Jesus Christ.
Go ahead and make your "1000" arguments (you haven't actually made a single coherent one yet) - I'm certainly completely unafraid of them.
If for no other reason, one of the most respected popes of all time John Paul II kissing the Koran should give you pause.
An oft-repeated and completely unsubstantiated slander. "But we have the pictures!" - the photograph posted over and over again shows the Pope kissing an Arabic lectionary of readings from the New Testament. You can even order one on Amazon.
Or were you uanware that there are Arab Christians who celebrate Mass in Arabic?
If and when the Vatican pronounces we all worship the same God and all have access to salvation through their own means, will you believe then? I believe it will be soon.
Really? Then why was there all the handwringing when the current Pope issued the CDF statement Dominus Iesus declaring the unique status of Christ for the millionth time in Catholic history? What possible evidence do you have that 2000 years of consistent doctrine will change tomorrow?<>Answer: none.
The whore of Babylon will be one world religion and will deceive many, even some of the elect. In 1 Peter 5:13, where was Peter referring to? I believe you will find he was writing from Rome.
The whore of Babylon is not discussed in 1 Peter. Any luck, by the way, with that claimed passage of Scripture in which Christ forbids the Apostles to worship Moses or Elijah?
Like I said, I don't expect you to change your mind, but I would hope you would rethink what you have been taught versus what Scripture says. it's so obvious to a non Catholic, but just circular reasoning for the Catholic.
No, it is circular reasoning to say that Scripture trumps all, but that it doesn't trump all when it isn't read according to your personal prejudices. That's a glaring example of a circular argument.
It's my job as a believer, to preach the Gospel to all that will listen, but the Holy Spirit is the one that opens your eyes. I have many Catholic friends and the one thing that each one has is some irrational fear that they may be wrong and the Church may not approve of them.
"I have many Catholic friends." Please, spare me this line and the dimestore psychology that accompanies it.
It is Christ they should follow not the denomination that their parents told them was the only way to believe. Muslims do the same to their children, and I dare say the FLDS and JW's do the same.
What about the converts to Catholicism who have explicitly not followed their parents' denomination? What about the "Bible Christians" whose parents were also "Bible Christians"? I hope you realize how ridiculous this argument is.
There are many denominations going through upheaval right now. They have error and lies preached from the pulpit and they have now realized their lifelong denomination is fouled with stench. Will they have the strength to follow God or their denomination? If Catholics had the conviction of their alleged faith, we wouldn't have thugs, murderers and crooks elected in Catholic districts. There will most likely be many Catholics vote for Obama this election. Does abortion and homosexuality mean anything? They are just like other denominations.
Translation: there are Catholics who are sinners. Wow.
There are people who profess to be "Bible Christians" who will vote for Obama this fall, and who will have abortions, and engage in homosexual intercourse and who will sell crack, too. That's not much of an argument against "Bible Christianity."
All it will take is a pope that "just wants to get along".
But there hasn't been one in 2,000 years. That's a pretty amazing run of "luck", isn't it?
Saying you have millions of Catholics means nothing. There are a billion Muslims. Having faith in your denomiantion isn't the same as faith in Jesus Christ.
We started with twelve, whether there are twelve of us or a billion of us is immaterial. I do not belong to a "denomination." I belong to the Church. There is only one.
We will be judged by the Word. It's there for anyone to read.
I see. So if you can't read, you can't be saved?
Read it correctly and don't be fooled.
So "reading it correctly" means making up stuff that isn't there - like an imaginary conversation in which Jesus forbids the Apostles to worship Moses and Elijah?
You don't help you position when you invent nonexistent passages of Scripture.
This is not mysticism. This woman is practicing New Age fluff and needs to be shut down by her pastor and bishop. It is deception and a false understanding of the higher unseen realms.
Mysticism is the valid path to union with God, aka mystical union. The Orthodox have their own term, theosis if I understand correctly.
Read ‘The Spiritual Life’ by Fr. Adolphe Tanquerey or ‘The Three Ages of the Interior Life’ by Fr. Garrigou-Lagrange.
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