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So, I'm post trib, I guess you'd say.

The idea of a pre-trib rapture (which is all that pre-tribulationism is about anyway) is an example of a papier mache doctrine--bits and pieces of scripture, with no regard for content or context, pasted together and plastered over a biblically invisible concept make a shape appear that is then attributed to the bits and pieces. "See, it is so scriptural! There's a scripture there and there and there!" But that one's talking about people being carried away in death, not to be with the Lord. "Huh? Well, the birds are probably eagles and eagles are noble and they're in the sky where Jesus is coming from, so this verse really is talking about the rapture!"

There is not a single verse that is claimed as teaching a pre-trib rapture that unambiguously does so. Such an interpretation invariably depends upon questions already thoroughly begged.

There is not a single verse that is claimed as teaching a pre-trib rapture that unambiguously does so.

That's the way the scriptures were written...God didn't write the bible like a cookbook...He wants us to study and search, and find...And many of us do...

God did the same thing with the Trinity...That's why it took the Catholic church 400 years to find it...In fact, God does that with most all prophecy in the scripture...Everything fits together, but He makes you hunt for the pieces to see it...

"Huh? Well, the birds are probably eagles and eagles are noble and they're in the sky where Jesus is coming from, so this verse really is talking about the rapture!"

That's exactly what I mean -- it's piecing things together like that when there's no context taken into consideration.