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Does the "Jesus Stone" Hurt Christianity
Lets Ask God ^ | 7-19-2008 | Eric Francke

Posted on 08/07/2008 8:57:37 AM PDT by francke

The New York Times ran a feature story on July 6th, 2008 about the discovery of a stone tablet found near the Dead Sea in Jordan that apparently contains some reference to a “Prince of Princes” (ie. The Jewish Messiah) who would be slain and rise from the dead after three days. (Tablet Ignites Debate on Messiah and Resurrection”, July 6, 2008)

The essence of the article and the opinion of the scholars quoted is that somehow, the credibility of Christianity is at stake, on the grounds that this pre-Christian inscription, also known in scholastic circles as “Gabriel’s Revelation”, robs Christianity of its “uniqueness” and novelty.

(Excerpt) Read more at letsaskgod.com ...


TOPICS: Apologetics; Religion & Culture; Skeptics/Seekers
KEYWORDS: apologetics; epigraphyandlanguage; gabrielsrevelation; godsgravesglyphs; jesusstone
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To: Soliton

Seeing your posts and the posts of those who have responded: Once again, you are being shredded like cheese.

But, you are probably too ignorant even to realize it.


41 posted on 08/07/2008 10:08:37 AM PDT by Skooz (Gabba Gabba we accept you we accept you one of us Gabba Gabba we accept you we accept you one of us)
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To: Soliton

The reasoning is lacking. Just because some stories from some religions seem to have borrowed from earlier stories means nothing, especially in this case. If the people who made these tablets used the old testament to predict what they meant and they accurately understood the prophecies to be predicting the death a resurrection of the Messiah after three days, that in no way conflicts or suggests they were borrowing. It means the Old Testament prophecies were accurate. Jesus was not meant to be a new religion, he was meant to be a fulfillment of the old one. The fact that older writings foreshadowed Christ serves as verification, not as proof His story was copied.


42 posted on 08/07/2008 10:08:57 AM PDT by Always Right (Obama: more arrogant than Bill Clinton, more naive than Jimmy Carter, and more liberal than LBJ.)
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To: Always Right

Can someone post some Old Testament prophecies that would suggest a messiah would raise from the dead after 3 days?
The story of Jonah, who was spit out of the whale after three days (Jonah 1:17).

Thanks— are there other, less veiled, references?


43 posted on 08/07/2008 10:09:00 AM PDT by kailbo
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus
Additionally, I guess you forgot about all those comments in the Targumim and other writings about the Messiah ben Joseph and the Messiah ben David (i.e. two messianic comings) which various Jewish theologians arrived at from a plain reading of the Hebrew scriptures.Not from plain reading of scripture at all, but tortured reading of commentaries. It was originated about AD 250 and has no parallels to the story of Jesus. Messiah ben Joseph was supposed to die in battle.
44 posted on 08/07/2008 10:11:51 AM PDT by Soliton (> 100)
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To: Always Right

The name on the stone was “Simon”


45 posted on 08/07/2008 10:12:39 AM PDT by Soliton (> 100)
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To: Skooz
probably too ignorant

Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
46 posted on 08/07/2008 10:13:05 AM PDT by Religion Moderator
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To: Religion Moderator

my bad


47 posted on 08/07/2008 10:13:52 AM PDT by Skooz (Gabba Gabba we accept you we accept you one of us Gabba Gabba we accept you we accept you one of us)
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus

Than Julius Caesar?

You need a history lesson


48 posted on 08/07/2008 10:14:11 AM PDT by Soliton (> 100)
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To: Skooz
Seeing your posts and the posts of those who have responded: Once again, you are being shredded like cheese.

Of course you would see it that way. You believe what they say because it agrees with your superstitions.

49 posted on 08/07/2008 10:15:37 AM PDT by Soliton (> 100)
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To: Soliton
Not from plain reading of scripture at all, but tortured reading of commentaries. It was originated about AD 250 and has no parallels to the story of Jesus. Messiah ben Joseph was supposed to die in battle.

Actually, most all of the Targumim were written before the time of Jesus.

(the "/i" tag is your friend)

50 posted on 08/07/2008 10:17:19 AM PDT by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus (Here they come boys! As thick as grass, and as black as thunder!)
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To: kailbo
Jonah in the belly of the 'big fish' for 3 days. A 'sign' which Jesus, Himself, pointed to. Jonah's prayer in Chapter 2, from the utter darkness of the deep - to the LORD bring his life up from corruption, has always been one to reflect over.

Hosea 6:1-3 (referenced in the article):

1 Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.
2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.
3 Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth.

Consider who is doing the speaking (see Chapter 5). And if we are in Christ, we were crucified with Christ and we are risen with Christ...

There are other verses that point to the promised Deliverer (e.g., 'the seed of the woman crushing the head of the serpent' Pslam 110; etc), but these are the only two that come to mind regarding the resurrection in 3 days. The Bible was written by God - we can never completely plumb its depths - but we treasure the gleanings we find.

51 posted on 08/07/2008 10:17:23 AM PDT by El Cid (Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house...)
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To: Soliton
You believe what they say because

Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.

Reading the mind of another Freeper is a form of "making it personal."

52 posted on 08/07/2008 10:17:40 AM PDT by Religion Moderator
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To: Soliton
No, simply because others have presented logical arguments buttressed by evidence (did you even bother to read the info at the link in post 39? It dismantles your presuppositions).

All you have presented is, uh, nothing but your opinion backed up with ...... more of your opinion.

53 posted on 08/07/2008 10:19:05 AM PDT by Skooz (Gabba Gabba we accept you we accept you one of us Gabba Gabba we accept you we accept you one of us)
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To: Religion Moderator

I don’t believe that is fair. It was stated that my position was being “shredded” without any evidence offered. What I said was literally correct, but I will try to obey the new rule.


54 posted on 08/07/2008 10:24:39 AM PDT by Soliton (> 100)
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus
Actually, most all of the Targumim were written before the time of Jesus.

Once again. I will be the only one to cite objective sources. Massiah Ben Josph:

One of the earliest known mentions of him is in (Sukkah52a, b), where three statements occur in regard to him, for the first of which Rabbi Dosa (c. 250) is given as authority. In the last of these statements only his name is mentioned, but the first two speak of the fate which he is to meet, namely, to fall in battle (as if alluding to a well-known tradition

55 posted on 08/07/2008 10:28:17 AM PDT by Soliton (> 100)
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To: Soliton
Than Julius Caesar? You need a history lesson

Not really. After all, what evidence do we really have that this "Julius Caesar" existed, anywise? We have a few, very late manuscripts of some pseudobiographical works which this "Caesar" supposedly authored that were copied (or perhaps INVENTED???) hundreds of years after this Caesar supposedly existed. We have a few scattered historical references by people writing long after this Caesar allegedly lived. And we have a few coins, perhaps forged or perhaps referring to someone else with a similar name, that supposedly bear the image and title "Pontifex Maximus" for this alleged Caesar.

I'm being facetious about doubting Caesar, of course, but am doing so to make a point. Point is - documentary evidence from back then is always going to be scantry, at best, and the documentary evidence for the life and works of Jesus Christ are actually exceptionally good in comparison to what we usually can expect.

56 posted on 08/07/2008 10:29:57 AM PDT by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus (Here they come boys! As thick as grass, and as black as thunder!)
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus

Roman silver denarius bearing image of Octavian with Latin inscription: Caesar Augustus [minted 13 BCE]. The other side of this two-faced coin has the image of Augustus’ vice-regent, Marcus Agrippa. For high resolution images of this & more coins of early Roman rulers see Sandy Brenner’s vivid numismatic guide: Jerusalem Through Coins.

http://virtualreligion.net/iho/augustus.html


57 posted on 08/07/2008 10:35:37 AM PDT by Soliton (> 100)
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus
the documentary evidence for the life and works of Jesus Christ are actually exceptionally good in comparison to what we usually can expect.

There is more written about the Greek Gods. Are they real? We know their parents, their children and stories of their lives.

Religious stories are always more suspect than secular ones because they are compiled by people with the lowest possible documentary standard, faith.

58 posted on 08/07/2008 10:40:22 AM PDT by Soliton (> 100)
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To: Always Right

Amen and so be it!!!!!!!


59 posted on 08/07/2008 10:50:03 AM PDT by onlylewis (libs want a two class system, one rich one poor)
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To: Soliton
Once again. I will be the only one to cite objective sources. Massiah Ben Josph:

I'll cite an earlier one (and one that isn't obtained from Wikipedia),

"And I shall cause to rest upon the house of David and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem the spirit of prophecy and true prayer. And afterward the Messiah son of Ephraim will go out to do battle with Gog, and Gog will slay him in front of the gate of Jerusalem. And they shall look to me and shall inquire of me why the nations pierced the Messiah son of Ephraim."

This is a marginal reading in the Reuchlinianus manuscript of a targumic commentary on the minor prophets, at Zechariah 12:10 (The Targum of the Minor Prophets: Translated, with a Critical Introduction, Apparatus, and Notes, Eds. K. J. Cathcart and R. P. Gordon, p. 218) an Aramiac targum dating to before the Talmud.

60 posted on 08/07/2008 10:52:40 AM PDT by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus (Here they come boys! As thick as grass, and as black as thunder!)
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