Posted on 08/04/2008 8:00:28 AM PDT by greyfoxx39
On May 21, 1845 an article on the nature of God, man, and angels appeared in the LDS publication the “Prophet.” Understood to have been written by the editor, LDS Apostle Parley P. Pratt, the article was reprinted in the 1903 book Mormon Doctrine of Deity by B. H. Roberts. Mr. Roberts identified this article, titled “Materiality,” as one of “A Collection of Authoritative Mormon Utterances on the Being and Nature of God” which he included in Mormon Doctrine of Deity. As a Seventy “noted for his doctrinal knowledge,” Mr. Roberts explained the purpose of the book:
“The task before me, on this occasion, is to take this subject and present to you what in reality the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints teaches with reference to the Godhead.” (page 11)
What follows is a condensation of the main points of Mr. Pratt’s “Materiality” article.
What is God? He is a material intelligence, possessing both body and parts. He is in the form of man, and is in fact of the same species; and is a model, or standard of perfection to which man is destined to attain: he being the great Father and head of the whole family.
He can go, come, converse, reason, eat, drink, love, hate, rejoice, possesss [sic] and enjoy. He can also travel space with all the ease and intelligence necessary, for moving from planet to planet, and from system to system.
This being cannot occupy two distinct places at once. Therefore, he cannot be (in person) everywhere present….
What is Jesus Christ? He is the son of God, and is in every way like his father,… He is material intelligence, with body, parts and passions; possessing immortal flesh and immortal bones. He can…perform all things even as the Father—possessing the same power and attributes. And he, too, can travel space, and go from world to world, and from system to system, precisely like the Father; but cannot occupy two places at once.
What are angels? They are intelligences of the human species. Many of them are offsprings of Adam and Eve. That is, they are like Enoch or Elijah, been translated; or, like Jesus Christ, been raised from the dead;… They can go or come on foreign missions, in heaven, earth, or hell; and they can travel space, and visit the different worlds, with all the ease and alacrity with which God and Christ do the same,…
What are spirits? They are material intelligences, possessing body and parts in the likeness of the temporal body; but not composed of flesh and bones, but of some substance less tangible to our gross senses in our present life; but tangible to those in the same element as themselves. In short, they are men in embrio [sic] –intelligences waiting to come into the natural world and take upon them flesh and bones, that through birth, death, and the resurrection they may also be perfected in the material organization. Such was Jesus Christ, and such were we before we came into this world, and such we will be again, in the intervening space between death and the resurrection.
What are men? They are the offspring of God, the Father, and brothers of Jesus Christ. They were once intelligent spirits in the presence of God, and were with him before the earth was formed. They are now in disguise as it were, in order to pass through the several changes, and the experience necessary to constitute them perfect beings.
They are capable of receiving intelligence and exaltation to such a degree, as to be raised from the dead with a body like that of Jesus Christ’s, and to… go on missions from planet to planet, or from system to system: being Gods, or sons of God, endowed with the same powers, attributes and capacities that their heavenly Father and Jesus Christ possess.
What are all these beings taken together, or summed up under one head? They are one great family, all of the same species, all related to each other, all bound together by kindred ties, interests, sympathies, and affections. In short they are all Gods; or rather, men are the offspring or children of the Gods, and destined to advance by degrees, and to make their way by a progressive series of changes, till they become like their Father in heaven, and like Jesus Christ their elder brother.
Thus perfected, the whole family will possess the material universe, that is, the earth, and all other planets, and worlds, as “an inheritance incorruptible undefiled and that fadeth not away.” They will also continue to organize, people, redeem, and perfect other systems which are now in the womb of Chaos, and thus go on increasing their several dominions, till the weakest child of God which now exists upon the earth will possess more dominion, more property, more subjects, and more power and glory than is possessed by Jesus Christ or by his Father; while at the same time Jesus Christ and his Father, will have dominion, kingdoms, and subjects increased in proportion.
Such are the riches, glories, blessings, honors, thrones, dominions, principalities, and powers, held out by the system of materialism.
Such the wealth, the dignity, the nobility, the titles and honors to which “Mormons” aspire. Such the promises of him whose word can never fail.
With these hopes and prospects before us, we say to the Christian world, who hold to immateriality, that they are welcome to their God–their life—their heaven, and their all.
They claim nothing but that which we throw away, and we claim nothing but that which they throw away. Therefore, there is no ground for quarrel, or contention between us. (Mormon Doctrine of Deity, pages 255-258)
The Christian world, along with the Apostle Paul, is content with “their all”:
For what we proclaim is not ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, with ourselves as your servants for Jesus’ sake. (2 Corinthians 4:5)
Ping
None so blind as those who refuse to see...
He can go, come, converse, reason, eat, drink, love, hate, rejoice, possesss [sic] and enjoy.
Eat? Drink?
He can also travel space with all the ease and intelligence necessary, for moving from planet to planet, and from system to system.
Wasn't that a Star Trek charecter?
Great tagline!
The "Materiality" chapter begins here on page 254.
Can anyone translate this article for me? And what is a Godhead? Huh?
The word made flesh makes no sense if the word had been flesh all along. Why not just come himself and experience what life was like for his people, since he was a man just like us.
I mean can people not see how little sense all this makes, how totally off the mark it is?
... they're speshul don'tchaknow, on a path to become gods themselves!
Think Trinity. Father, Son, Holy Ghost. Three in one.
Here is a start.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Bets on how long a thread with that title will be here long ????
There is a new Christian Band named “Adams Road.” They are a group of ex-mormon missionaries. Their lyrics in the song “Stone Temple,” talk somewhat about the materiality of Mormonism (even though the Mormon apologist will deny it - we know that it definitely exists!)
http://www.myspace.com/adamsroadband
I spent my days following what I thought were Your ways
But they weren’t, they were someone else’s
Things I’ve heard all my life turned out differently
Than how Your Word really is
And I felt so scared, terrified to change
Till the first time I saw Your face
Chorus
Your call pierced my darkness, it brought me to life (brought me to life)
Banished my blindness, You put mud in my eyes
And I fled the Pharisees and stepped into the light
I once thought that I had to earn Your love
Before You could ever love me
I was taught that all the works I did would save me
I’m left empty
Without faith in You, all my works are dead
And Your love covers me
Chorus
Your call pierced my darkness, it brought me to life (brought me to life)
Banished my blindness, You put mud in my eyes
And I fled man’s fallacies and stepped into the light
Turns out You’re not where I thought You were
In stone temples made by their hands
You’re even closer, You’re inside of me
You hung on a tree, tearing the veil, lifting the darkness
I leave old priestly ways to enter Your house
Chorus
Your call pierced my darkness, it brought me to life (brought me to life)
Banished my blindness, You put mud in my eyes
And I fled their fruitless fig tree and stepped into the light
Stepped into the light, into the light
Reading that mess of confusion jumbled my brain...
Bets on how long a thread with that title will be here ????
Under mormon theology, there are three separate gods, the father god, jesus, and the 'holy spirit'. These three gods form a committee called the godhead. As such, they are three among countless other gods.
Mormons obtain the term from the KJV version of the bible where it is present in 3 locations (Acts 17:29, Romans 1:20 and Colossians 2:9). Godhead in those verses are translated from the greek words theios, theiotes and theotes (respectively to the cited bible references). As is is an old term, modern translations usually translate the words more accurately, such as "divine being"(Acts), "divine nature" (Romans) and "Deity" (Colossians).
Within the definition of Christianity - references to the Godhead are in a trinitarian understanding - one God composed of Three Persons and these three Persons share the common essence of God . This is admittedly a difficult concept, but is what is revealed in the bible. There is only One God in all existance - in contrast to polytheism of mormonism.
Seems to me most mormon doctrines arise from difficult to understand Biblical teachings.
ie, the Virgin Birth, Trinity.....
This is sourced back to a famous mormon historian, with actual copy of the book page with the chapter title "Materiality".
There have been many, many posts discussing the difference between the triune belief and the mormon belief on the Godhead. What possible reason would be used to delete this thread?
Our reasoning is still tied to time as a background dimension, without comprehending that dimension time has three variable expressions all of which exist simultaneously, and the reality of a being such as ourselves is tied to one or two of the variable expressions without having the flexibility to move into and out of all three.
Physics explanation is catching up gradually with 'brane theory', but there is a ways to go yet. To illustrate the concept I'm presenting, think of how movie makers place characters in miniature sets with action scenes like attacking the death star of Star Wars fame. The actors, perhaps in a mock fighter plane, are filmed with a blue background, then the film of a death star mini set is projected behind the first film running, and the illusion of being there at the death star is achieved. Using that trick, a filmed person could be placed in any filmed setting, even interacting with himself from a previous filming.
My favorite trick of this sort is the commercial for some vacuum cleaner, with Fred Astaire dancing with the machine which didn't even exist when Fred was filmed dancing on those steps. Then there's the beer commercial with John Wayne, and that beer wasn't even around when JW was filmed in that cowboy setting.
The point is, by having free access to temporal variable expressions, a being like Jesus Who is God in the flesh can move from one temporal setting to another, and He shows up in the Old Testament with the resurrected body post crucifixion. In His case it isn't a trick of taking temporally fixed realities and overlapping them, He literally is free to move from one fixed temporal reality to another bringing His Temporally superior body for actually being there ... the time component of Jesus' resurrected body has all of the variable temporal expressions thus he is free to enter any setting of temporal reality, kind of the way a three spatial dimension being can touch a two spatial dimension realm.
This is one of the topics in my current book project. It has been a great joy to explore these aspects of His nature, as our Physics is finally 'fleshing out' the nuance. The fun part is accepting that science doesn't discover false things, it discovers what is. And in doing so, Science is giving explanation to so many of the previously unexplainable stories of the Bible that are poopooed as unbelievable but which are now being discovered to be credible.
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