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Are Reformed “Evangelical” or “Evangelicals”? (Ecuminic)
Heidelblog ^
| July 26, 2008
| R. Scott Clark
Posted on 07/26/2008 7:13:28 PM PDT by PAR35
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It ends with
"Im evangelical, just as Im catholic, and biblical but Im not an evangelical because I still believe, preach, teach, and confess unequivocally the law and the gospel, because I confess that Christ established a visible, institutional church through which he intends to administer his kingdom and that it is to that entity that he has entrusted the ministry of the gospel and the ministry of the signs and seals of the kingdom."
1
posted on
07/26/2008 7:13:29 PM PDT
by
PAR35
To: PAR35
Oh, !
2
posted on
07/26/2008 7:17:07 PM PDT
by
muawiyah
(We need a "Gastank For America" to win back Congress)
To: PAR35
To: Dr. Eckleburg; wmfights; Gamecock; raynearhood; Marysecretary; Lee N. Field
Pinging some folks who’ve engaged recently on the growing rift between the Reformed and modern Evangelical camps. Here’s a guy that’s more articulate than I on the subject.
4
posted on
07/26/2008 7:25:21 PM PDT
by
PAR35
To: PAR35
We think alike. I probably would have gotten around to posting this.
Y-all go read the whole thing.
5
posted on
07/26/2008 7:53:33 PM PDT
by
Lee N. Field
(Whatever that thug false prophet in Florida is called, I want to be called something else.)
To: Lee N. Field
I read the whole thing and was disturbed by it. He IS an elitist, but hasn’t much to commend his elitism. An evangelical, as I see it, is a born-again Christian who preaches, teaches, believes and advocates salvation, by grace, through faith, in Christ alone, always hoping to find a willing candidate for the conversion.
He never mentioned the born-again experience, which has to rank as the most important teaching Jesus ever gave us. A glaring oversight if ever there was one.
6
posted on
07/26/2008 9:14:46 PM PDT
by
Migraine
(Diversity is great (until it happens to YOU)...)
To: Lee N. Field
Thought I might have run across a familiar name.
7
posted on
07/26/2008 9:17:16 PM PDT
by
PAR35
To: PAR35
**”Im evangelical, just as Im catholic,**
This will be very interesting to watch.
The four evangelists are among the most admired saints in theh Catholic Church.
8
posted on
07/26/2008 9:21:53 PM PDT
by
Salvation
(†With God all things are possible.†)
To: Salvation
9
posted on
07/26/2008 9:24:58 PM PDT
by
PAR35
To: PAR35; HarleyD; Forest Keeper; Alex Murphy; Gamecock
Note the lower case c. AMEN.
Pinging Harleyd and Forest Keeper to an interesting thread. We discussed the current meaning of the world last year.
IMO "evangelical" has taken on a false note in that as the article says, it implies an immediate sensory experience.
I've found it interesting that lately the word Protestant isn't used much at all, which is a shame. Instead, the press refers to Catholics and Evangelicals, as if all Protestants were Evangelicals. A better term would be Protestants.
10
posted on
07/26/2008 10:16:11 PM PDT
by
Dr. Eckleburg
("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
To: Migraine
I read the whole thing, too, and the only real problem I had was with the syntax. But, when it comes to syntax, who am I to complain? The fact is, the argument wasnt being made for evangelism, but for identification of reformed believed as evangelists without identifying with Evangelists.
That being said, although I understand the authors arguments, and I share in his frustration, I think it could be presented in a more understandable way. So, to address your reply, Ill reply with this:
Salvation is a life changing experience, but it isnt an experience in the way that it is being presented by too many Evangelical churches presently. At Rick Warrens church, at the Lakeland revival, and at countless other venues countrywide, salvation is being presented as a fleeting thing. Its an experience to grasp onto while the emotions are high and the show is good. Those emotions may last for (who knows?) days, weeks, months, even years. The terrible thing is, that depth and real theology is rarely, if ever being taught. Just today we have an
example of Rick Warren contorting Scripture in order to fit his social theology and there are other examples of his Purpose Driven Churches missing the point of worship (glorifying God) in order to maintain their flocks through shows that are aimed at gripping the emotions of the audience. Shoot, even the church I grew up in has changed from a Bible teaching church to a church that appeals to sinners emotions (with social theology, rock style emotionally charged music, and little conviction with almost no depth).
So, what argument are we to make? Well, I hate social theology, because it has no Biblical basis and diverts from the true message of Salvation. I despise emotionally driven worship because the focus is on the worshipper instead of on the One that deserves worship. I disagree with Arminianism, because I believe it minimizes the power of God (though I do not believe that acceptance of the principles of Calvinism is required for faith). I
know that too many Evangelical churches across America have turned to maintaining and growing in membership numbers at the expense of the Word of God, and the worship of the Almighty.
All that we pray for; all the we vehemently request of the Evangelical Churches is that seek God and God alone. And that they see, Him throuh the Bible,following priciples of good theology, in order to assist their members with an understanding of God's word, as well as God's character.
11
posted on
07/26/2008 10:42:02 PM PDT
by
raynearhood
("As for you, when wide awake you are asleep, and asleep when you write..." - Jerome)
To: Migraine
***never mentioned the born-again experience, which has to rank as the most important teaching Jesus ever gave us.***
It is understood, to all Reformed Christians, that we are born again, aka regeneration. Without being born again we would not be able to have faith in Christ.
12
posted on
07/27/2008 4:46:22 AM PDT
by
Gamecock
(The question is not, Am I good enough to be a Christian? rather Am I good enough not to be?)
To: PAR35
While most Protestants were at one time evangelicals, the term has been distorted to the point where we must now claim that we are Reformed, period.
13
posted on
07/27/2008 4:52:06 AM PDT
by
Gamecock
(The question is not, Am I good enough to be a Christian? rather Am I good enough not to be?)
To: raynearhood
Thank you for your considerable and considerate reply. I, too, am troubled by glitzy megaproduction malaprop church expressions. Unfortunately, that is all we are treated to on TV these days. I see an inherent flaw in “bigness” in the Church. The bigness becomes the driven purpose, raison d’etre, goal, sum and substance. To sustain it, very worldly processes creep in and begin to transform what was once a very spiritual work into a very profane one. Reminds me of Laodicea in Revelation 3.
Out in the byways and hedges, though, exist hundreds of thousands of New Testament congregations going about the business God commissioned us to pursue — the reaching of souls via the foolishness of preaching, and by Godly example and visibility. These noble and Biblical endeavors are not to be confused nor conflated with the unfortunate, often heretical, ostentation that has become so infamous these days.
14
posted on
07/27/2008 5:24:33 AM PDT
by
Migraine
(Diversity is great (until it happens to YOU)...)
To: Salvation
The four evangelists are among the most admired saints in theh Catholic Church.
So. Every cult out there claims Jesus.
15
posted on
07/27/2008 5:44:40 AM PDT
by
Lee N. Field
(Whatever that raving thug false prophet in Florida is called, I want to be called something else.)
To: Gamecock
To: Migraine
He never mentioned the born-again experience,I don't know what kind of 'experience' you are looking for, but as Confessional Christians, we susbscibe to and stand by the historic Confessions. We might use terms that are more familiar to Cromwell than to modern evangelicals, such as 'regeneration' or even 'quickened'.
As the English reformers said, "II. This effectual call is of God's free and special grace alone, not from anything at all foreseen in man, who is altogether passive therein, until, being quickened and renewed by the Holy Spirit, he is thereby enabled to answer this call, and to embrace the grace offered and conveyed in it."
See also Articles 3, 11 and 12 under the Third and Fourth points of doctrine of the Canons of Dort.
17
posted on
07/27/2008 7:48:06 AM PDT
by
PAR35
To: PAR35
Thanks for the ping. I have to get back to you on this.
18
posted on
07/27/2008 8:13:07 AM PDT
by
wmfights
(Believe - THE GOSPEL - and be saved)
To: raynearhood; PAR35; Gamecock; Lee N. Field; Alex Murphy; Ottofire; wmfights; Forest Keeper; ...
Amen to your excellent post.
One of the greatest things about Free Republic is that it affords us the opportunity to know there are many Bible-believing Christians around the world who understand the Scriptures and know the grace of God and produce the good fruit of the Spirit, all by and for and through Jesus Christ alone, according to His will alone.
I like your homepage. Your family and their photos are beautiful. And that Piper sermon is one of his best ever. 8~)
19
posted on
07/27/2008 11:49:21 AM PDT
by
Dr. Eckleburg
("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
To: Dr. Eckleburg
Your family and their photos are beautiful. And that Piper sermon is one of his best ever.
Thank you for the kind words.
God Bless.
20
posted on
07/27/2008 11:53:21 AM PDT
by
raynearhood
("As for you, when wide awake you are asleep, and asleep when you write..." - Jerome)
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