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Joseph Smith's First Vision: Fact or Fiction?
MRM ^ | Wesley Walters

Posted on 07/24/2008 12:37:23 PM PDT by Gamecock

The well-publicized story of Joseph Smith's First Vision is not a true account of the origin of the Latter-day Saint movement. The facts are decided against it! First, the historical evidence shows that Joseph Smith, Jr. could not have been stirred by an 1820 revival, to ask which church was true. Second, early Mormon statements do not support his claim that in 1820 he learned through a visitation of the Father and the Son that all existing churches were wrong. Third, the details known about Joseph's early life contradict his assertion that in 1820 he had such a divine visitation and was persecuted by the community for telling such a story.

No 1820 Revival

First, his neighborhood in 1820 experienced no revival such as he described, in which "great multitudes" joined the Methodist, Baptist and Presbyterian churches. The Presbyterian records for the Palmyra Presbyterian Church show that it experienced no revival in 1820. (See Geneva Presbytery "Records," Presbyterian Historical Society.) The local Baptist church gained only six on profession of faith the entire year ("Records for the First Baptist Church in Palmyra," American Baptist Historical Society) while the Methodists actually lost members that year as well as the preceding and following years (Minutes of the Annual Conference).

Joseph Smith claimed that his mother, sister and two brothers were led to join the local Presbyterian Church as a result of that 1820 revival. However, four years before he made this claim, his own church paper had stated that the revival in which his family had been led to join the Presbyterian Church took place in 1823 (Messenger & Advocate I, pp. 42, 78). In fact, that account says it was the same 1823 revival that led him to go to his bedroom (not to a sacred grove) and pray "if a Supreme being did exist" and to know that "he was accepted of him." An angel (not a deity) is then reported to have appeared and told him of his forgiveness and of the gold plates.

Joseph's mother, likewise, knew nothing of an 1820 vision. In her unpublished account, she traces the origin of Mormonism to a bedroom visit by an angel. Joseph at the time had been "pondering which of the churches were the true one." The angel told him "there is not a true church on Earth. No not one" (First draft of "Lucy Smith's History," LDS Church Archives).

Furthermore, she tells us that the revival which led her joining the church took place following the death of her son, Alvin. Alvin died Nov. 19, 1823, and following that painful loss she reports that, "about this time there was a great revival in religion and the whole neighborhood was very much aroused to the subject and we among the rest, flocked to the meeting house to see if there was a word of comfort for us that might relieve our over-charged feelings" (p. 55-56).

She adds that although her husband would only attend the first meetings, he had no objection to her or the children "going or becoming church members." There is plenty of additional evidence that the revival Lucy Smith refers to did occur during the winter of 1824-25. It was reported in at least a dozen newspapers and religious periodicals. The church records show outstanding increases due to the reception of new converts. The Baptist church received 94, the Presbyterian 99, while the Methodist work grew by 208. No such revival bringing in "great multitudes" occurred in 1820.

It is clear that the revival Joseph Smith, Jr. described did not occur in 1820, but in 1824. Joseph Smith arbitrarily moved that revival back four years to 1820 and made it fit a First Vision story that neither his mother nor other close associates had heard of in those early days. The historical facts completely discredit Joseph Smith's First Vision story. (For further details, see "Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought" Spring 1969, pp. 59-100.)

Bible Reading Vs. Revelations

Furthermore, about 1832 Joseph Smith, Jr. began an account of the origin of the Mormon Church (the only one written in his own hand) that contradicts the official First Vision story he dictated some six years later. The account was never finished. (See the text in BYU Studies, Spring 1969, pp. 278ff.)

In this version Joseph presents himself between the ages of 12 and 15 as being a committed and perceptive reader of the Bible. He claims that his study of the Scriptures led him to understand that all of the denominations were wrong. He wrote: "By searching the Scriptures I found that mankind did not come unto the Lord but that they had apostatized from the true and living faith and there was no society or denomination that built upon the Gospel of Jesus Christ as recorded in the new testament."

Six years later, when he set forth his official First Vision story, he decided that he never had reached the firm conclusion that all churches were wrong from his study of the Bible. Instead, he claimed that it was during a vision of the Father and the Son that he first learned this information. He presented this as coming as a great surprise, for he added parenthetically -- "for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong." That statement even contradicted what Joseph had said a few paragraphs earlier in the same account. There he claimed that "I often said to myself ...Who of all these parties are right; or are they all wrong together?" Although the former statement appears in the original manuscript (see BYU Studies above, pg. 290), such a serious contradiction could not be allowed to stand, and after Joseph's death the embarrassing words were edited out.

Even without those words, however, the 1838 official account is in conflict with the 1832 version. In the 1832 account it is his Bible reading that stirs him to seek God, while in the 1838 story it is a non-existent revival that motivates him.

In the 1832 version he claims to have seen only Christ, while in the 1838 rendition both the Father and the Son appear. In the 1832 account he already knows all the churches are wrong, while in the 1838 story it is the dual deities who first inform him of this. Different people may have different views of the same event, but when one person tells contradictory stories about an event, he completely loses his credibility.

Persecution Vs. Acceptance

The 1838 First Vision story not only runs into trouble with Joseph's earlier 1832 version, but it is also contradicted by what we know about his early years in Palmyra. In his official version Joseph claims he was persecuted by all the churches in his area "because I continued to affirm I had seen a vision." However, Orsemus Turner, an apprentice printer in Palmyra until 1822, was in the same juvenile debating club with Joseph Smith. He recalled that Joseph "after catching a spark of Methodism ...became a very passable exhorter in evening meetings" (History of the Pioneer Settlement of Phelps and Gorham's Purchase, 1851, p. 214). Thus, instead of being opposed and persecuted as his 1838 account claims, young Joseph was welcomed and allowed to exhort during the Methodist's evening preaching. Furthermore, no one, either Mormon or non-Mormon, seems ever to have heard of Joseph's encounter with two divine Personages until after 1838. (See this admission in Dialogue, Autumn 1966, pp. 30-31; Saints Herald, June 29, 1959, pg. 21.)

From all available lines of evidence, therefore, Joseph's First Vision story appears to be a fabrication. There was no revival [as described by Smith] anywhere in the Palmyra area in 1820. Joseph was welcomed, not persecuted, by the Methodists. His 1832 account represents him as perceiving from his personal Bible study that all the churches were apostate, while his 1838 account said it "never entered into my heart that all were wrong." His 1832 version claimed only a vision of Christ, while the 1838 story transformed this into the Father and the Son. No one ever heard such a story until after he dictated it in 1838. In the light of such strong contradictory evidence, the First Vision story must be regarded as only the invention of Joseph Smith's highly imaginative mind. The facts and Joseph's words discredit it.


TOPICS: General Discusssion; History
KEYWORDS: lds; mormon; mormonbashing; smith
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To: POWG
I will remember your kindness.

No doubt...

161 posted on 07/28/2008 7:36:00 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: POWG; SENTINEL
...we do not hold any of our leaders to be infallible. I am sure that Joseph Smith said and did a lot of dumb things like any other human. He was an imperfect man like you and me – not a God, not a savior. [POWG]

Sentinel: The Mormon church makes claims that most other churches would not dare to make. Their third President John Taylor boasted: "...we are the only people that know how to save our progenitors, how to save ourselves, and how to save our posterity in the celestial kingdom of God;...we in fact are the saviours of the world..." (Journal of Discourses, vol.6, p.163).

Sentinel, thanks for citing that: Tell me, what "prophet" of God would make such a pronouncement in claiming they are the "saviours of the world" and self-saviours & never take it back or do a u-turn? As a matter of fact, the Church of the Mormon Jesus Christ of Latter-day Mormon Saints has published that citation numerous times and a similar quote from Taylor in 2001.

The LDS Curriculum Department @ 50 East North Temple Street published this quote from Taylor in 2001 [please note POWG, this isn't an 1836 publishing date]:

We came here to be saviors. 'What, saviors?' 'Yes.' 'Why, we thought there was only one Savior.' 'Oh, yes, there are a great many. What do the scriptures say about it?' One of the old prophets, in speaking of these things, says that saviors shall comeup upon Mount Zion [see Obadiah 1:21]. Saviors? Yes. Whom shall they save? In the first place themselves, then their families, then their neighbors, friends and associations, then their forefathers, then pour blessings on their posterity. Is that so? Yes... (Teachings of Presidents of the Church: John Taylor, published in 2001 by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, p. 187, citing Deseret News, Feb. 11, 1873, p. 2)

Mormons deem themselves not only to be gods and gods-in-embryo, but saviors of everybody, starting w/themselves! This is not merely the 19th century utterings of an off-base Mormon prophet...but is confirmed as mainstream Mormon teachings direct from contemporary general authorities of the LDS church!

In 1997, the LDS Church published its same kind of book that featured official teachings by Brigham Young. Young said: I honor and revere the name of Joseph Smith." (p. 345)

This same Smith-revering Young preached a sermon on Oct. 9, 1859 delivered in the LDS Salt Lake City Tabernacle (and was recorded in vol. 7 of Journal of Discourses, pp.282-291).

Joseph Smith holds the keys of this last dispensation, and is now engaged behind the vail in the great work of the last days. I can tell our beloved brother Christians who have slain the Prophets and butchered and otherwise caused the death of thousands of Latter-day Saints, the priests who have thanked God in their prayers and thanksgiving from the pulpit that we have been plundered, driven, and slain, and the deacons under the pulpit, and their brethren and sisters in their closets, who have thanked God, thinking that the Latter-day Saints were wasted away, something that no doubt will mortify them—something that, to say the least, is a matter of deep regret to them—namely, that no man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith. From the day that the Priesthood was taken from the earth to the winding-up scene of all things, every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are—I with you and you with me. I cannot go there without his consent. He holds the keys of that kingdom for the last dispensation—the keys to rule in the spirit-world; and he rules there triumphantly, for he gained full power and a glorious victory over the power of Satan while he was yet in the flesh, and was a martyr to his religion and to the name of Christ, which gives him a most perfect victory in the spirit-world. He reigns there as supreme a being in his sphere, capacity, and calling, as God does in heaven. Many will exclaim—"Oh, that is very disagreeable! It is preposterous! We cannot bear the thought!" But it is true.

Who should we believe, POWG, you or an LDS "prophet" when you tell us that "Joseph Smith" [is] "not a God" to at least some Mormons?

Brigham said Smith "reigns there as supreme a being in his sphere, capacity, and calling, as God does..." Young said he couldn't go to that after-death minus Smith's consent. He said "...you must have a certificate of Joseph Smith, junior as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are..."

(Do you have your spiritual Joseph Smith-signed off passport? Your Smith-certified entrance into heaven all squared away?)

Talk about making Christ as Savior almost irrelevant! Brigham Young Sermon: Joseph Smith's Consent Needed to Enter Heaven

162 posted on 07/28/2008 7:46:28 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: DeLaVerdad; POWG
...why are you forbidden from wearing a cross, having a cross in your churches/temples/wards, etc.

Good question, DeLa. Are there any Mormons out there who wear a cross? (And openly so?)

Why are you told not to focus on the cross because it is sad? It’s because Satan does not want you to remember that without the cross you have no salvation. Without the work of the cross you will not go to the “celestial kingdom” ... the CROSS and the BLOOD of Christ is what saves you and your response to that great gift and love is works.

According to LDS apostle Bruce R. McConkie, in his book, Mormon Doctrine, p. 172: "In succeeding centuries, the churches which came into being through an intermingling of pagan concepts with the true apostolic Christianity developed the practice of using symbolic crosses in the architecture of their buildings and as jewelry....All this is inharmonious with the quiet spirit of worship and reverence"

18For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. (1 Corinthians 1:18)

18(For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: 19Whose end is destruction...) (Phil. 3:18-19)

163 posted on 07/28/2008 8:04:30 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian; POWG

Perhaps POWG would like to tell us what the LDS version of the Gospel of Jesus Christ IS? Would we get an incomplete cloying description, an obfuscation, then be told this poster doesn’t speak for the LDS, officially? That ploy has been tried in past threads discussing mormonism.


164 posted on 07/28/2008 8:09:26 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: nobody in particular

Therefore I speak to them in parables, because they seeing
see not and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. Matthew 13:13

Hear now this, O foolish people and without understanding; which have eyes, and see not, which have ears, and hear not. Jeremiah 5:21

And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear you indeed, but understand not and see indeed, but perceive not. Make the heart of this people fat and make their ears heavy and shut their eyes, lest they see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their heart and convert and be healed. Isaiah 6:9-10


165 posted on 07/28/2008 8:25:15 PM PDT by Graybeard58 (I'm voting for McCain because he's white - credit Jeff Chandler)
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To: Colofornian

Awesome and powerful verses on the cross - thank you, Colofornian - they are a blessing.


166 posted on 07/28/2008 8:27:15 PM PDT by DeLaVerdad
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To: Elsie

Then WHY did they name this UNIVERSITY after him?? ...

HEY That’s my line!


167 posted on 07/28/2008 8:33:05 PM PDT by ejonesie22 (Haley Barbour 2012, Because he has experience in Disaster Recovery.)
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To: Anybody

I saved the following without saving the source URL. Can somebody help with the source:

#1 The Book of Mormon: the “most correct of any book on earth” containing stories of mass migrations in submarine barges, snakes herding cattle, American Indians smelting steel and riding about in horse drawn chariots, and so much, much more.

#2 The Book of Abraham: Joseph’s translation completely debunked by Egyptologists. The poor guy missed the author of the document, the purpose for the document, and every single word contained in the document.

#3 The Failed Prophesies: dozens to choose from including such gems as the violent overthrow of the United States in the 1830’s, to the second coming of Christ sometime before 1891, to the discovery of the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel living in cement houses in a valley near the North Pole, to the finding the moon is inhabited by men dressed like Quakers, to the prediction the earth has knobs on each end. Joseph wasn’t afraid go for broke. And he got there time and time again.

#4 The First Vision: or more specifically, the nine different versions of the first vision; or ten if you include the Salamander account pronounced genuine by LDS Church leadership.

#5 The 1826 Bainbridge Conviction for Fraud: the Conquistador’s gold was really down there. It wasn’t Joseph’s fault the farmer dug so slowly the ground opened up and kept swallowing the treasure.

#6 The Book of Commandments / Doctrine and Covenants: supposedly dictated to the prophet by Mormonism’s god, but changed thousands of times and still replete with examples of false statements and contradictions with other Mormon scripture.

#7 The Kirtland Safety Society: Joseph preceded the Enron scandal by 170 years with what was for years the largest financial fraud in U.S. history (and one of the most blatant). This happened shortly after Mormonism’s god promised the banking institution, “like Aaron’s rod shall swallow up all other banks … and grow and flourish and spread from the rivers to the ends of the earth, and survive when all others should be laid in ruins.”

#8 The United Order: Rigdon talked Smith into trying communism about 30 years or so before Marks and Engels. The Saints got the same economic results as other “workers’ paradises” such as the Soviet Union, Cuba and North Korea.

#9 The Garden of Eden located in Independence, Missouri: This was the place where Adam and Eve were given Sacred Temple Garments (long johns with secret Masonic symbols) to cover their nakedness after they were expelled from paradise.

#10 The Kinderhook Plates: a hoax by evil gentiles who took pieces of brass, and then inspired by the characters on a box of Chinese green tea, etched strange markings on them with acid. Joseph pronounced the artifacts genuine and determined they contained information about a descendant of Ham.

#11 Doctrine & Covenants Section 132: polygamy as a result of a “new and everlasting covenant … [and] if ye abide not that covenant, then are ye damned; for no one can reject this covenant and be permitted to enter into my glory.” This revelation convinced more than thirty women, many in their teens and several married to other men, to share Joseph’s celestial bed. And it ruined the lives of thousands of his devout followers. And exactly how does one get rid of something that is “everlasting? The LDS Church has been trying to figure that one out since the Federal Government almost put them out of business in 1887.

#12 The Science of Kolob: the Sun borrows its light from Kolob through the medium of Kae-e-vanrash, and other stars receive their power through the revolutions of Kolob. Similarly, the earth receives its power through the medium of Kli-flos-is-es, or Hah-ko-kau-beam.

#13 Salvation through Joseph: or more specifically, the idea no one receives exaltation without recognizing Smith is a prophet of god and will pass before him in order to gain entry to the highest kingdom of heaven.

#14 The Eternal Progression: As man now is, god once was. As god now is, man may become.

#15 I’m greater than Jesus: Joseph’s pompous boast made on May 26, 1844. Less than a month later, a vain prophet was thrown down exactly as prophesied by Smith.


168 posted on 07/28/2008 8:38:22 PM PDT by Graybeard58 (I'm voting for McCain because he's white - credit Jeff Chandler)
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To: Graybeard58

OK guys keep it up - this is getting good. Lay some more of that “Christian” love and kindness on me!! Wait -—— I’m starting to feel it -——


169 posted on 07/28/2008 8:59:16 PM PDT by POWG
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Comment #170 Removed by Moderator

To: All

BTTT


171 posted on 07/28/2008 9:16:35 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: Zakeet; MHGinTN; greyfoxx39; Godzilla
Shall we call your list, Zakeet, Historical Mormonism 101?

I guess I'd consider adding the following to your fine list below [Zak's list are further down in italics]...my suggested additions are below...perhaps somebody could tally a running list:

That...
...God is Joseph Smith's "right-hand man" [divine handiman are difficult to secure these eons]
...He (Smith) was the only man able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam [That's funny, I musta missed all those Old Testament stories in Sunday School about "churches"...and poor Jesus Christ, what a Mormon failure..."Nor Jesus ever did it" (keep a church together), says Joe.]
...Smith swaggered that, "I am learned, and know more than all the world put together." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 350) [Good thing the Wizard of Oz had a brother in Palmyra]
...Joseph Smith confessed outright that the spirit entity which appeared to him (Moroni) was a ghost -- to use Joseph's own word a "dead" person "who appeared unto me" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119) [we all know those ghosts can be such ghastly creatures]
...in yet another FAQ (the Moroni answer above was to an FAQ interview of Smith, as was this answer:) "...we do not believe in setting the negroes free." (p. 120) [So much for Smith's supposed "gospel of liberty" for blacks]
...that God the Father died ("Jesus what are you going to do? To lay down my life as my Father did, and take it up again." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 346) [Gee, I wonder if God the Father had a funeral on his world]
...the righteous Mormons will dwell in "everlasting burnings" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 347, 367) [Now we know who the joke was on]
...he quotes Isaiah chapter after chapter wholesale in the Book of Mormon, then has the gall to call that prophet a liar. ("An angel of God never has wings...This is a lie" Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 162...see Isaiah 6) [I guess that angel in Isaiah had 6 wings too many for Joe]
...he produces 113 and 116-word run-on sentences in Doctrine & Covenants (43:25; 123:7) [Did they have periods in the 1830s, or was that an invention some time in the 1840s?]
...uh, let's-just-make-up-fun-new-words-as-we-go-along: "And let the higher part of the inner court be dedicated unto me for the school of mine apostles, saith Son Ahman; or, in other words Alphus; or, in other words, Omegus; even Jesus Christ your Lord. Amen." (D&C 95:17) [In other words...]
...Oh, & three weeks after ordering the printing press & publication of the Nauvoo Expositor destroyed (something even LDS contemporary leaders have said went too far...they thought it was "OK" for Smith-as-mayor to censor the Expositor, but not to destroy the printing press & the office), Smith was lying to the very end: "P.S....There is no cause of action, for we have not been guilty of any crime; neither is their annny just cause of suspicion against us..." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 394)

Here's my list ... A prophet who taught:
That...
...Jesus and Satan are brothers,
...God had incestuous relations with His daughter (Mary),
...Christian pastors are "dimwitted hirelings of Satan
...God is a polygamous celestial stud married to our Heavenly Mother

Of...
...Kolob and of other worlds named Planet Oblish and Planet Enish-go-on-dosh ruled by a governing power through the medium of Kli-flos-is-es, or Hah-ko-kau-beam
...sacred scriptures based on pagan works such as prayers to Egyptian gods for dead spirits – which were supposedly translated using occult devices such as peep stones
...prominent display of Satanic symbols such as pentagrams, baphomets, earth stones, and saturn stones on his churches' religious buildings and literature
...the wearing a fig leaf apron in temple ceremonies to symbolize Satan’s power and priesthoods
...having Lucifer teach Mormon church doctrine in the temple ceremony
...portraying Satan as the god of this world in Mormon rites and ceremonies
...offering prayers to the devil – Oh God, hear the words of my mouth
...praising Satan by chanting Hebrew words in the temple ceremony whose translation is Marvelous Lucifer
...having special grips and clasps to tell ghosts from angels and the devil
...practicing baptism for the dead
...wearing magic underwear to protect from physical harm – with symbols so sacred that they must be cut out and buried and the garment burned when it wears out

That...
...husbands can resurrect their wives from the grave
...the Ten Lost Tribes and the apostle John will be discovered living in cement houses in a tropical land adjacent to the North Pole separated by a high mountain range
...
...he was commanded by god to retranslate the Bible because the existing translations contained errors – eventually devising an Inspired Revision completed in 1833 - which was rejected by his church who still uses the King James Version
...his followers should burdened by a complex series of regulations which determine their progression as gods of their own planets - complete with a harem of goddess wives
...he was greater than Jesus

172 posted on 07/28/2008 9:21:37 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: DeLaVerdad

Amen...


173 posted on 07/28/2008 9:34:30 PM PDT by ejonesie22 (Haley Barbour 2012, Because he has experience in Disaster Recovery.)
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To: POWG; Elsie; All
Perhaps, and this is just a thought, if you would finally be the first LDS member here to actually address the quotes posted by Elsie, especially when requesting Christian kindness from people who your own prophet has told you are gentiles, are worshiping a false gospel, and are misled by the devil himself, then we could get somewhere.

See that is the problem, we see it all the time here, the “I don't care what my great prophet and other leaders have said over the years, so quit hitting me with facts” bit. Only problem is we do care, and so does God, since you and yours are taking it upon yourselves to hoist the mantle of Christ with clearly incorrect doctrine.

The Devil is in the details, literally in this case...

174 posted on 07/28/2008 9:41:26 PM PDT by ejonesie22 (Haley Barbour 2012, Because he has experience in Disaster Recovery.)
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To: Colofornian

Well, since the moderator removed my last post let me paraphrase —

Thank you all for teaching me the error of my ways. I did not know how wrong I could be. I thought we shared some of the same ideas and values - but apparently we do not. I want no part of what you claim to be “Christian”. You are not of the same faith as my mother. I hope you enjoy your party.


175 posted on 07/28/2008 9:42:01 PM PDT by POWG
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To: Colofornian
Delightsome!
176 posted on 07/28/2008 10:17:38 PM PDT by Zakeet (Be thankful we don't get all the government we pay for)
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Comment #177 Removed by Moderator

To: Zakeet

Looks like somebody else got “dinged” by the moderator. How lovely.


178 posted on 07/28/2008 10:56:40 PM PDT by POWG
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To: POWG

Don’t pick at the scab.


179 posted on 07/28/2008 11:02:55 PM PDT by Religion Moderator
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To: POWG
OK guys keep it up - this is getting good. Lay some more of that “Christian” love and kindness on me!! Wait

It would be unkind and unloving of me if I told you anything but the truth. I bear no animosity toward you.

180 posted on 07/29/2008 4:40:59 AM PDT by Graybeard58 (I'm voting for McCain because he's white - credit Jeff Chandler)
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