Posted on 07/15/2008 1:23:12 PM PDT by NYer
No, Calvinists hold to a real, but spiritual rather than physical presence. I was unfamiliar with the Methodist view, so I looked it up. It looks like they actually are closer to Calvin than I would have guessed.
“The Supper of the Lord is not only a sign of the love that Christians ought to have among themselves one to another, but rather is a sacrament of our redemption by Christ’s death; insomuch that, to such as rightly, worthily, and with faith receive the same, the bread which we break is a partaking of the body of Christ; and likewise the cup of blessing is a partaking of the blood of Christ.
...
The body of Christ is given, taken, and eaten in the Supper, only after a heavenly and spiritual manner. And the mean whereby the body of Christ is received and eaten in the Supper is faith.
...”
http://archives.umc.org/interior.asp?ptid=1&mid=1651
(This being an Ecuminical thread, I supplied the two paragraphs which deal positively with their view, and omitted the pair that speak negatively of the beliefs of another communion. )
So I’ll not concede either the Methodists nor the Presbyterians to the Baptist view.
3. Given the rules of the thread, I’ll not comment on the Catholic view, only the Reformed.
Yes, he has the ‘sign and seal’ part right, but my complaint is that he didn’t go far enough. It is more than a sign or seal, it is also a means of grace in Reformed theology as the believer receives spiritual nourishment.
4. “If we have the capability to respond, mustn’t we exercise that capability?”
That would be the “I” in TULIP - Irresistable Grace.
We are dead in our sins, God by his grace sends the Holy Spirit to quicken us (thus my earlier comment on Grace not being dependent in any manner upon us), and draws us to him.
Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified (Romans 8:30)
4. Well, I'm more of a Molinist, I suppose. We've made the choice to believe in Christ - the fact that God created a world where the circumstances would arise whereby we would freely make that choice has no bearing on our freedom to do so. We were predestined by the world God created, but our decision to love Him is ours to make - if it were otherwise, how could it be real love?
I would suspect that there may be less difference between us as to what happens to a believer when he takes communion than there would be between either of us and a Baptist.
The insurmountable gulf between a Calvinist and a Catholic with regard to Communion is to whether there is a change in the nature of the elements. And since neither of us is likely to change the view of the other, it’s probably best on that point to acknowledge the gulf and move on as to that point.
In any event, I’d count these exchanges as another success for the proponents of Ecuminecal threads.
In any event, Id count these exchanges as another success for the proponents of Ecuminecal threads.
I agree wholeheartedly on both counts - thank you for this discussion.
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Wow. Wonderful article, NYer.
Mr. Trisham is an alumnus of Boston College.
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Did you miss the part where he said he was a Calvinist for 20 years?
Actually, if you read it closely, he claims he was a Calvinist for 21 years, not 20. But growing up in a church with 'Reformed' in its name, and even going to Calvin College doesn't make him a Calvinist. Indeed, as soon as he got out from under his parents direct supervision, he headed to a Baptist church although Grand Rapids has over 90 Reformed congregations, a handful of Presbyterian churches, and even at least Reformed Baptist group (not the Baptist church which the author attended.)
So his claims to have been a Calvinist from birth ring pretty hollow.
Yes! Indeed. But as we say just before communion: "Lord, I am not worthy to receive you, but only say the word and I will be healed."
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