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The Complete Bible: Why Catholics Have Seven More Books [Ecumenical]
CUF ^

Posted on 07/02/2008 1:51:40 PM PDT by NYer

ISSUE: Catholic Bibles contain seven more Old Testament (46) books than Protestant Bibles (39). Catholics refer to these seven books as the “deuterocanon”[1] (second canon), while Protestants refer to them as “apocrypha,” a term used pejoratively to describe non-canonical books. Protestants also have shorter versions of Daniel and Esther. Why are there differences?

RESPONSE: Catholic Bibles contain all the books that have been traditionally accepted by Christians since Jesus’ time. Protestant Bibles contain all those books, except those rejected by the Protestant Reformers in the 1500’s. The chief reason Protestants rejected these biblical books was because they did not support Protestant doctrines, for example, 2 Maccabees supports prayer for the dead.[2] The term “canon” means rule or guideline, and in this context means “which books belong in the Bible (and, by implication, which do not).”

      The Catholic Old Testament follows the Alexandrian canon of the Septuagint,[3] the Old Testament which was translated into Greek around 250 B.C. The Protestant Reformers follows the Palestinian canon[4] of Scripture (39 books), which was not officially recognized by Jews until around 100 A.D.

DISCUSSION: Prior to Jesus’ time, the Jews did not have a sharply defined, universal canon of Scripture. Some groups of Jews used only the first five books of the Old Testament (the Pentateuch); some used only the Palestinian canon (39 books); some used the Alexandrian canon (46 books), and some, like the Dead Sea community, used all these and more. The Palestinian and Alexandrian canons were more normative than the others, having wider acceptance among orthodox Jews, but for Jews there was no universally defined canon to include or exclude the “deuterocanonical” books around 100 A.D.

      The Apostles commissioned by Jesus,[5] however, used the Septuagint (the Old Testament in Greek which contained the Alexandrian canon) most of the time and must have accepted the Alexandrian canon. For example, 86 percent of Old Testament quotes in the Greek New Testament come directly from the Septuagint, not to mention numerous linguistic references. Acts 7 provides an interesting piece of evidence that justifies the Apostolic use of the Septuagint. In Acts 7:14 St. Stephen says that Jacob came to Joseph with 75 people. The Masoretic Hebrew version of Genesis 46:27 says “70,” while the Septuagint’s says “75,” the number Stephen used. Following the Apostles' example, Stephen clearly used the Septuagint.[6] (We also know from other ancient Christian documents, like the Didache[7] and Pope St. Clement’s Letter to the Corinthians, that the apostles’ successors not only used the Septuagint, but quote from all of the books in the Alexandrian canon as the authoritative word of God.)

      There is no divinely inspired “table of contents” for the Bible, therefore, Christians need an authority, like the infallible Church established by Christ, to discern which books are the divinely inspired ones. (Indeed, even if there were such a “table of contents” list, we would need an authority to tell if the list itself were inspired.) Even many Evangelical Protestant Bible scholars admit this:

While we know that at the time of Jesus there were different canons of the Old Testament because the canonical process was not yet complete, the glorious truth is that God has invited humans to be partners in the putting together of Scripture. I think the implications are that you cannot have Scripture without the community of faith [in other words, the Church]. It’s not just a private revelation. God gives us Scripture, but then the [Church], by God’s guidance, has to choose what’s in and what’s out.”[8]

      Why don’t the Jews accept the Alexandrian canon now, though? They follow after their predecessors, who around 100 A.D. decided that the Septuagint which followed the Alexandrian canon had at least two problems: First, it was written in Greek, which after the destruction of Jerusalem by Gentiles seemed “un-Jewish” or even “anti-Jewish.”[9] Second, Christians, following the lead of their apostolic leaders, widely used the Septuagint, especially in apologetics to the Jews; thus, non-Christian Jews wanted to deny the value of some of its books, such as the Book of Wisdom, which contains a profound prophecy of Christ’s death.

      In the words of Protestant Septuagint scholar Sir Lancelot Benton:

The veneration with which the Jews had treated this [Septuagint] (as it is shown in the case of [Jewish historians] Philo and Josephus), gave place to a very contrary feeling when they found how it could be used against them [i.e., in Christian apologetics]: hence they decried the [Septuagint] version, and sought to deprive it of any authority.[10]

      What are the classic Protestant arguments against the seven deuterocanonical books? Their major objection is that the deuterocanonicals contain doctrines and practices, such as the doctrine of purgatory and praying for the dead, that are irreconcilable with authentic Scripture. This objection, of course, begs the question. If the deuterocanon is inspired Scripture, then those doctrines and practices are not opposed to Scripture but part of Scripture. Another objection is that the deuterocanonical books “contain nothing prophetic.” This is clearly proved false by comparing Wisdom 1:16-2:1 and 2:12-24 to Matthew’s passion account, especially Matthew 27:40-43.

      Many Protestants also argue that, because neither Jesus nor His apostles quote the deuterocanonical books, they should be left out of the Bible. This claim ignores that Jesus nor His apostles do not quote Ecclesiastes, Esther or the Song of Songs, nor even mention them in the New Testament; yet Protestants accept these books. Furthermore, the New Testament quotes and refers to many non-canonical books, like pagan poetry quoted by Paul and Jewish stories referred to by Jude, which neither Protestants nor Catholics accept as Scripture. Clearly New Testament quotation, or the lack thereof, cannot be a reliable indicator of Old Testament canonicity. (This also begs the question of which books belong in the New Testament and which do not.)

      Other Protestants argue that today’s Jews do not accept the deuterocanon. This objection is problematic for two reasons. The first is why the Jews reject those books (see above). These books are rejected by Jews on the basis of bias against Christianity, something to which Protestants should not want to support. The second problem is this: Why should Christians accept the authority of post-Church-establishment, non-Christians instead of the Apostles of the Church that Christ founded? Would God found a Church and then let it fall into grave error concerning the Old Testament canon? This is an untenable position for any Christian to take.

      Others point to St. Jerome's “rejection” of deuterocanonical material. While Jerome was originally suspicious of the “extra” Old Testament books, which he only knew in Greek, he fully accepted the judgment of the Church on the matter, as shown in a letter written in 402 A.D.:

What sin have I committed if I follow the judgment of the churches? . . . I was not relating my own personal views [when I wrote the objections of the Jews to the longer form of Daniel in my introduction], but rather the remarks that [the Jews] are wont to make against us [Christians who accept the longer form of Daniel], (Against Rufinius, 11:33, emphasis added).[11]

      Remember that Protestants reject the longer, Alexandrian version of Daniel; St. Jerome did not.

      Still more Protestants claim that the Church did not authoritatively define the canon of Scripture until the Council of Trent and, since that Council was a reaction to the Reformation, the deuterocanon can be considered an “addition” to the original Christian canon. This is also incorrect. Regional councils of the early Church had enumerated the books of the Bible time and again prior to the Reformation, always upholding the current Catholic canon.[12] Examples include the Council of Rome (382), the Council of Hippo (393), and the Third and Fourth Councils of Carthage (397, 418).[13] All of these affirmed the Catholic canon as we know it today, while none affirmed the Protestant canon.

      This exact canon also had the total support of important Church Fathers like St. Augustine (Christian Instruction, 397).[14] In 405, Pope St. Innocent also taught the Catholic canon in a letter to Exsuperius, Bishop of Toulouse,[15] the same year that St. Jerome completed the Latin Vulgate translation of the Bible at the request of the Popes. A thousand years later, while seeking reunion with the Copts, the Church affirmed the same canon at the ecumenical[16] Council of Florence in 1442.[17] When the canon became a serious issue following the Protestant schism in the early 1500s, Trent dogmatically defined what the Church had consistently taught for more than 1,000 years.

      R.C. Sproul, a prominent Protestant theologian, asserts that we must accept the Bible as a “fallible collection of infallible books,” and many Protestants find this idea appealing. There are serious problems with this position however. The chief problem is this: While it acknowledges that infallible books exist somewhere in the world, it implies that we can have no guarantee that all, or indeed any, of those infallible books are in the Bibles Christians use. If the collection is fallible, the contents are not necessarily the books which are infallible. How do we know, then, that John's Gospel, which all Christians accept, is legitimately Scripture, while the so-called “Gospel of Thomas,” which all Christians reject, is not? Sproul’s statement points to the need for an authority outside the Bible so that we can have an infallible collection of infallible books. It is ultimately contradictory to believe in the Bible’s infallibility, and the reliability of its canon, without believing in the Church’s infallibility.[18]

      To answer the question, “Who decided which books are in the Bible?” we must inevitably recognize the authoritative Church that Christ founded, the Church that infallibly discerned with God's guidance which books belonged and which didn’t.[19] This means recognizing that the longer Old Testament canon is the correct one.


TOPICS: Catholic; Ecumenism; History; Theology
KEYWORDS: apocrypha; bible; canon; catholic; deuterocanon
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To: MarkBsnr

Thanks for the fantastic survey of bible history!

It’s worth bookmarking and forwarding.


61 posted on 07/02/2008 8:32:26 PM PDT by fetal heart beats by 21st day (Defending human life is not a federalist issue. It is the business of all of humanity.)
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To: ChurtleDawg
I always got a chuckle out of that. I believe the most "famous" of all the Jewish festivals (Chanuka) is only found in the book of Maccabees in the Catholic Bible.

I think next time my grandchildren give me the schedule of their school's diversity event celebrations,I will tell them to take their Bible and read their schoolmates the original story taken smack from the only Bible that acknowledges it.

Not being a Biblical scholar,for their sake,I hope I am right.

62 posted on 07/02/2008 8:39:45 PM PDT by saradippity
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To: enat

***This preface to the Scriptures may serve as a helmeted [i.e. defensive] introduction to all the books which we turn from Hebrew into Latin, so that we may be assured that what is outside of them must be placed aside among the Apocryphal writings. Wisdom, therefore, which generally bears the name of Solomon, and the book of Jesus the Son of Sirach, and Judith, and Tobias, and the Shepherd [of Hermes?] are not in the canon. ***

Yet Jerome is not the Church.

The Church in Hippo (383), Carthage (393, 397 and 419) decided on Canon.

Jerome was a faithful servant in the Church.

However, we do not allow that an antiChristian Jewish pronouncement 60 years after Jesus died, resurrected and Ascended to Heaven dictates Christian Scripture.

And if 1 Maccabees is Hebrew, all reservations should be swept aside.


63 posted on 07/02/2008 8:48:52 PM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: wolfcreek

“It was about the Church’s power which is why our founders were so careful to separate Church and State”

Huh! So the Inquision was the reason “our founders were so careful to separate Church and State? Could you please link that...

What do you know about the history of the Inquision? I’m not going to make any excuses nor will I recognize smut. Try reading the historian Penny Dobbins - she’s a Wiccan!

Do you have any idea of what happened in Britain after the Reformation?


64 posted on 07/02/2008 10:36:36 PM PDT by chase19
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To: MarkBsnr; fetal heart beats by 21st day

“Thanks for the fantastic survey of bible history!”

Ditto here.


65 posted on 07/02/2008 10:40:19 PM PDT by chase19
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To: Diego1618; fetal heart beats by 21st day
The Apostle Paul....being an Attorney and scholar under the tutorship of Gamaliel [Acts 22:3] would never have used a Greek translation

Please see link and link.

Further, St. Paul said this:

14 But continue thou in those things which thou hast learned, and which have been committed to thee: knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 15 And because from thy infancy thou hast known the holy scriptures, which can instruct thee to salvation, by the faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture, inspired of God, is profitable to teach, to reprove, to correct, to instruct in justice, 17 That the man of God may be perfect, furnished to every good work.

(2 Timothy 3)

We know that Timothy was a hellenized uncircumsized half-Jew (Acts 16). The Holy Scriptures Timothy learned "from his infancy" was decidedly the Septuagint. That would be "all scripture, inspired of God", according to Apostle St. Paul.

Protestantism is, quite literally, counterscriptural fraud.

66 posted on 07/03/2008 12:14:43 AM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: chase19
I think the Fall of the Roman Empire had a lot to do with the idea of the “Middle” or “Dark” ages. People knew things were not as good as they used to be in terms of international commerce, intellectual achievement, art, good governance, etc.

Reading Benvenuto Cellini's autobiography (born 1500) he (a great artist) often told his patrons ‘this coin/this art- is as good as ‘the ancients’ used to make’.

67 posted on 07/03/2008 12:29:48 AM PDT by allmendream
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To: allmendream; chase19

“Dark ages” is a term ot derision that educated people should not use, — a classic case of pot calling kettle dark. “Middle ages” is a calendaric reference, the Antiquity and the Renaissance being the dull brackets of the glorious middle.

Just remember that no one eats the pie for the crust.


68 posted on 07/03/2008 12:40:02 AM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: NYer; narses
One thing that is really aggravating about this article is its title: Why Catholics Have Seven More Books. It's not that we have seven more books. In fact, a more accurate title would be: Why Protestants Have Seven Fewer Books. If you look at it, all of Christianity, with the exception of Western Protestants, have these seven books in the canon of scripture. These books were stripped out by Luther. They weren't added by Jerome or anybody else in Christendom. They were already there.

The other thing is that the role of Aaron ben Moses ben Asher is not discussed. It is critical: he is the one who, in the 9th Century AD, added the vowel points and accents to the text. Prior to that time, there were several variant readings. As a result, the Masoretic text, considered authoritative by Protestants (and used by Luther in his translation), dates not from the time before Christ, dates not from the first century AD, but actually dates from the 9th Century AD.

69 posted on 07/03/2008 2:39:19 AM PDT by markomalley (Extra ecclesiam nulla salus)
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To: NYer
Have you read them Ecclesiastes

Yes, we've read the whole Bible, although we don't revisit Leviticus very often. I don't recall that any of the children liked Ecclesiastes very much. Anoreth was annoyed by the author's fatalism, and observed that if a person's going to be so down in the dumps, he ought to go attack something. She has a Spanish soul.

70 posted on 07/03/2008 2:41:47 AM PDT by Tax-chick (Tax-chick's House of Herpets. Watch your extremities - we're hungry!)
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To: Tax-chick

“She has a Spanish soul.”

And James (or is it Pat?)has a Greek one...thanks be to God! :)


71 posted on 07/03/2008 4:20:27 AM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated)
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To: Kolokotronis

Pat is the Greek. Maybe James is a Phrygian - he has a head like a cinder block.

How are you?


72 posted on 07/03/2008 4:22:11 AM PDT by Tax-chick (Tax-chick's House of Herpets. Watch your extremities - we're hungry!)
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To: chase19

“quoniam punitio non refertur primo & per se in correctionem & bonum eius qui punitur, sed in bonum publicum ut alij terreantur, & a malis committendis avocentur.

[Translation from the Latin: “... for punishment does not take place primarily and per se for the correction and good of the person punished, but for the public good in order that others may become terrified and weaned away from the evils they would commit.”

Totalitarianism? Terrorism? You tell me.


73 posted on 07/03/2008 4:44:24 AM PDT by wolfcreek (I see miles and miles of Texas....let's keep it that way.)
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To: tiki
From your attitude, I didn't think Catholic doctrine was open to debate.

Not that Catholics have any more of a troubling past compared to other religions but, continuing to give credence to totalitarian actions is disturbing.

IMO, religion is personal and should never be a reason for war or persecution.

74 posted on 07/03/2008 4:54:29 AM PDT by wolfcreek (I see miles and miles of Texas....let's keep it that way.)
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To: Tax-chick

“How are you?”

For an old man, I’m fine, thanks to God! And you and the chilluns?


75 posted on 07/03/2008 6:06:56 AM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated)
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To: Kolokotronis

The chilluns are always amusing. I just got back from running - it’s been reasonably cool the last few mornings.


76 posted on 07/03/2008 6:35:56 AM PDT by Tax-chick (Tax-chick's House of Herpets. Watch your extremities - we're hungry!)
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To: Diego1618
The oldest known copies of Judith are written in Greek.

And the earliest Greek is obviously a translation from an original Hebrew. (People who know the original and target language of a translation can spot it!) Do you have any evidence that later Hebrew copies are "forgeries" (as you so uncharitably suggest) rather than translations?

Your quotation "statistics" are meaningless. OT quotations in the NT are overwhelmingly from the Torah and Prophets and Psalms. Not all the c'tuvim are represented. And what of books quoted in the OT and NT that no longer exist?

Interesting that you cite St. Jerome's opinion here . . . do you follow him on other things as well, like bowing to the authority of the Pope above his own opinion?

77 posted on 07/03/2008 7:02:09 AM PDT by maryz
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To: NYer

Quite a few others others long before Luther rejected the Apocrypha (in fact the word “Apocrypha” was coined by St. Jerome in the 5th Century):

- Philo (20 B.C. - A.D. 40) was an Alexandrian Jewish Philosopher who quoted the Old Testament extensively, but never quoted from the Apocrypha as inspired.

- Josephus (A.D. 30 - 100) was a Jewish historian who explicitly excluded the Apocrypha when he cited the number of the Old Testament books.(neither Philo or Josephus, as early as they were, knew much about Christianity, nor did they have an axe to grind against it by excluding the Apocrypha).

- Old Testament Scripture is quoted often in the New Testament by Jesus and the New Testament writers, yet nowhere in the hundreds of quotations of OT Scripture are any from the Apocryphal books.

- The Jewish scholars at Jamnia in A.D. 90 did not recognize the Apocrypha.

- For the first four centuries, no council of the Christian church recognized the Apocrypha as inspired.

- Many of the early church giants spoke out against the Apocrypha, including Origen, Cyril of Jerusalem, and Athanasius.

- The translator of the Latin Vulgate Bible (Jerome, A.D. 340-420) rejected the Apocrypha as part of the canon. He argued with Augustine on this point. After initially refusing to even translate these books into Latin, he eventually bowed to pressure and made hurried translations of a few of the Apocryphal books. After his death (literally over his dead body), the Apocryphal books were brought into his Latin Vulgate.

- Luther wasn’t the only person during the Reformation to object to the Apocrypha. Many Roman Catholic scholars at that time rejected the Apocrypha. That’s why the Council at Trent went to the trouble of making their inclusion a matter of official canon.

So don’t be deceived into thinking the rejection of the Apocrypha began with the Protestant reformation. The history of apocryphal exclusion precedes its inclusion.


The Apocrypha Examined:

“The Jewish canon, or the Hebrew Bible, was universally received, while the Apocrypha added to the Greek version of the Septuagint were only in a general way accounted as books suitable for church reading, and thus as a middle class between canonical and strictly apocryphal (pseudonymous) writings. And justly; for those books, while they have great historical value, and fill the gap between the Old Testament and the New, all originated after the cessation of prophecy, and they cannot therefore be regarded as inspired, nor are they ever cited by Christ or the apostles” (Philip Schaff, History of the Christian Church, book 3, chapter 9)

21 reasons why the Apocrypha is not inspired:

1. The Roman Catholic Church did not officially canonize the Apocrypha until the Council of Trent (1546 AD). This was in part because the Apocrypha contained material which supported certain Catholic doctrines, such as purgatory, praying for the dead, and the treasury of merit.
2. Not one of them is in the Hebrew language, which was alone used by the inspired historians and poets of the Old Testament.
3. Not one of the writers lays any claim to inspiration.
4. These books were never acknowledged as sacred Scriptures by the Jewish Church, and therefore were never sanctioned by our Lord.
5. They were not allowed a place among the sacred books, during the first four centuries of the Christian Church.
6. They contain fabulous statements, and statements which contradict not only the canonical Scriptures, but themselves; as when, in the two Books of Maccabees, Antiochus Epiphanes is made to die three different deaths in as many different places.
7. The Apocrypha inculcates doctrines at variance with the Bible, such as prayers for the dead and sinless perfection.

And the day following Judas came with his company, to take away the bodies of them that were slain, and to bury them with their kinsmen, in the sepulchers of their fathers. And they found under the coats of the slain some of the donaries of the idols of Jamnia, which the law forbiddeth to the Jews: so that all plainly saw, that for this cause they were slain. Then they all blessed the just judgment of the Lord, who had discovered the things that were hidden. And so betaking themselves to prayers, they besought him, that the sin which had been committed might be forgotten. But the most valiant Judas exhorted the people to keep themselves from sin, forasmuch as they saw before their eyes what had happened, because of the sins of those that were slain. And making a gathering, he sent twelve thousand drachmas of silver to Jerusalem for sacrifice to be offered for the sins of the dead, thinking well and religiously concerning the resurrection, (For if he had not hoped that they that were slain should rise again, it would have seemed superfluous and vain to pray for the dead,) And because he considered that they who had fallen asleep with godliness, had great grace laid up for them. It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins. (2 Maccabees 12:39-46)

8. The apocrypha contains offensive materials unbecoming of God’s authorship.

Ecclesiasticus 25:19 Any iniquity is insignificant compared to a wife’s iniquity.

Ecclesiasticus 25:24 From a woman sin had its beginning. Because of her we all die.

Ecclesiasticus 22:3 It is a disgrace to be the father of an undisciplined, and the birth of a daughter is a loss.

9. It teaches immoral practices, such as lying, suicide, assassination and magical incantation.
10. The apocryphal books themselves make reference to what we call the Silent 400 years, where there was no prophets of God to write inspired materials.

And they laid up the stones in the mountain of the temple in a convenient place, till there should come a prophet, and give answer concerning them. (1 Maccabees 4:46)

And there was a great tribulation in Israel, such as was not since the day, that there was no prophet seen in Israel. (1 Maccabees 9:27)

And that the Jews, and their priests, had consented that he should be their prince, and high priest for ever, till there should arise a faithful prophet. (1 Maccabees 14:41)

11. Josephus rejected the apocryphal books as inspired and this reflected Jewish thought at the time of Jesus

“From Artexerxes to our own time the complete history has been written but has not been deemed worthy of equal credit with the earlier records because of the failure of the exact succession of the prophets.” ... “We have not an innumerable multitude of books among us, disagreeing from and contradicting one another, but only twenty-two books, which contain the records of all the past times; which are justly believed to be divine...”(Flavius Josephus, Against Apion 1:8)

12. The Manual of Discipline in the Dead Sea Scrolls rejected the apocrypha as inspired.
13. The Council of Jamnia held the same view rejected the apocrypha as inspired.

They debated the canonicity of a few books (e.g., Ecclesiastes), but they changed nothing and never proclaimed themselves to be authoritative determiners of the Old Testament canon. “The books which they decided to acknowledge as canonical were already generally accepted, although questions had been raised about them. Those which they refused to admit had never been included. They did not expel from the canon any book which had previously been admitted. ‘The Council of Jamnia was the confirming of public opinion, not the forming of it.’” (F. F. Bruce, The Books and Parchments [Old Tappan, NJ.: Fleming H. Revell, 1963], p. 98])

14. Although it was occasionally quoted in early church writings, it was nowhere accepted in a canon. Melito (AD 170) and Origen rejected the Apocrypha, (Eccl. Hist. VI. 25, Eusebius) as does the Muratorian Canon.
15. Jerome vigorously resisted including the Apocrypha in his Latin Vulgate Version (400 AD), but was overruled. As a result, the standard Roman Catholic Bible throughout the medieval period contained it. Thus, it gradually came to be revered by the average clergyman. Still, many medieval Catholic scholars realized that it was not inspired.
16. The terms “protocanonical” and “deuterocanonical” are used by Catholics to signify respectively those books of Scripture that were received by the entire Church from the beginning as inspired, and those whose inspiration came to be recognized later, after the matter had been disputed by certain Fathers and local churches.
17. Pope Damasus (366-384) authorized Jerome to translate the Latin Vulgate. The Council of Carthage declared this translation as “the infallible and authentic Bible.” Jerome was the first to describe the extra 7 Old Testament books as the “Apocrypha” (doubtful authenticity). Needless to say, Jerome’s Latin Vulgate did not include the Apocrypha.
18. Cyril (born about A.D. 315) – “Read the divine Scriptures – namely, the 22 books of the Old Testament which the 72 interpreters translated” (the Septuagint)
19. The apocrypha wasn’t included at first in the Septuagint, but was appended by the Alexandrian Jews, and was not listed in any of the catalogues of the inspired books till the 4th century
20. Hilary (bishop of Poictiers, 350 A.D.) rejected the apocrypha (Prologue to the Psalms, Sec. 15)
21. Epiphanius (the great opposer of heresy, 360 A.D.) rejected them all. Referring to Wisdom of Solomon & book of Jesus Sirach, he said “These indeed are useful books & profitable, but they are not placed in the number of the canonical.”

Is the Apocrypha Inspired? Does it really belong in the Bible?

Let us consider while we are at this point, the subject of the Catholic apocrypha, for which they make such great claims; and because of which they deny the Bible in common use by most brethren. 2 Macc 12:38-46 seems to be the principal reason they cling to the apocrypha. There is no other doctrine that depends so heavily upon support in the apocrypha. If I were not afraid of absolute statements, I would say that their defense of the apocrypha is only because of the passage and their claims about its teachings.

The Catholics have 46 Old Testament books rather than the 39 found in our Bibles. However, they have added much more material to other books which does not appear under separate titles. That material follows: The Rest of Esther added to Esther; The Song of the Three Holy Children, The History of Susanna, Bel and the Dragon added to Daniel; Baruch; 1 and 2 Maccabees; Tobias; Judith; Ecclesiasticus; and the Wisdom of Sirach.

The only powerful support for these books is that they appear in the Septuagint version. However, in many of our Bibles there is much material that is uninspired, including history, poetry, maps, dictionaries, and other information. This may be the reason for the appearance of this material in the Septuagint. The apocrypha was not in the Hebrew canon.

There are reputed to be 263 quotations and 370 allusions to the Old Testament in the New Testament and not one of them refers to the Apocryphal

The usual division of the Old Testament by the Jews was a total of 24 books: The Books of Moses (51, The Early prophets 14; Joshua, Judges, Samuel, and Kings ~, The Late Prophets (4; Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, the 12 Minor Prophets), and the Hagiagrapha (11; Psalms, Proverbs, Job, Song of Solomon. Ruth, Lamentations, Ecclesiastes, Esther, Daniel, Ezra-Nehemiah, and Chronicles i. These 24 books contain all the material in our numbering of 39.

Josephus spoke concerning the canon, but his book division combined Ruth-Judges and Lamentation-Jeremiah for a total of 22 books rather than 24:

“For we have not an innumerable multitude of books among us, ... only 22 books. which contain the records of ail the past times; which are justly believed to be divine;...It is true, our history hath been written since Artaxerxes very particularly, but hath not been esteemed of the like authority with the former by our forefathers;...and how firmly we have given credit to these books of our own nation is evident by what we do; for during so many ages as have already passed, no one has been so bold as either to add anything to them, or to make any change in them.” (Flavius Josephus Against Apion Book 1, Section 8).

Plainly Josephus distinguishes between those books written before and after Artaxerxes. This eliminates most of the apocrypha, especially the Maccabees.

The apocrypha itself denies all notion of inspiration. Referring to the events in the Maccabees the author makes these statements:

“...all such things as have been comprised in 5 books by Jason of Cyrene, we have at-tempted to abridge in one book. For considering the difficulty that they find that desire to undertake the narrations of histories, because of the multitude of the matter, we have taken care for those indeed that are willing to read,...And as to ourselves indeed, in undertaking this work of abridging, we have taken in hand no easy task, yea. rather a business full of watching and sweat. .. Leaving to the authors the exact handling of every particular, and as for ourselves. according to the plan proposed, studying to brief... For to collect all that is known, to put the discourse in order, and curiously to discuss every particular point, is the duty of the author of a history. But to pursue brevity of speech and to avoid nice declarations of things, is to be granted to him that maketh an abridgement.” (2 Maccabees 2: 24-32).

“...I will also here make an end of my narration. Which if I have done well, and as it becometh the history, it is what I desired; but if not so perfectly, it must be pardoned me. For as it is hurtful to drink always wine, or always water, but pleasant to use sometimes the one, and sometimes the other, so if the speech be always nicely framed, it will not be grateful to the readers...” 12 Maccabees 15: 39-40).

This forms a bizarre contrast with passages in the New Testament:

“Take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. For it is not ye that speak. but the spirit of your Father which speaketh in you” (Matthew 10: 19-20).

“Now we have received. not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God: that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in words which man s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth” (1 Corinthians 2: 12-131.
Catholic arguments:

Catholics argue:

This is refuted because:

Early Christians quote from the apocrypha proves it belongs in the Bible

Early Christians quoted from all kinds of uninspired writings other than the apocrypha. Why do Catholics not include these in their Bible’s

They were included in the Septuagint.

The Jews Never accepted the apocrypha as part of the Old testament canon.

The Church Councils at Hippo (393) and Carthage (397, 419), listed the apocrypha as Scripture. Since these same councils also finalized the 66 canonical books which all Christians accept, they must accept them all.

False. The canon of the New Testament was set from the first century. It is Catholic myth that Catholics gave the world the Bible!

The New Testament never quotes from the any of the apocryphal books written between 400 - 200 BC. What is significant here is that NONE of the books within the “apocryphal collection” are every quoted. So the Catholic argument that “the apocryphal books cannot be rejected as uninspired on the basis that they are never quoted from in the New Testament because Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther, Ecclesiastes, Song of Solomon are also never quoted in the New Testament, and we all accept them as inspired.” The rebuttal to this Catholic argument is that “Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther” were always included in the “history collection” of Jewish books and “Ecclesiastes, Song of Solomon” were always included in the “poetry collection”. By quoting one book from the collection, it verifies the entire collection. None of the apocryphal books were ever quoted in the New Testament. Not even once! This proves the Catholic and Orthodox apologists wrong when they try to defend the apocrypha in the Bible.

The apocrypha does not belong in the Bible because It IS not inspired.

Steve Rudd


78 posted on 07/03/2008 7:16:30 AM PDT by AnalogReigns
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To: wolfcreek

Reasoned debate is welcome. We just get very little of it.


79 posted on 07/03/2008 7:22:58 AM PDT by tiki (True Christians will not deliberately slander or misrepresent others or their beliefs)
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To: annalex
The “glorious middle” was not so glorious to the people who had to live through it. They knew things were not as good as they once were, thus when things started getting better it was not a “birth” it was a “re-birth” or “Renaissance”.

As far as studying history I do admit that the 12th and 13th Centuries is probably my favorite.

80 posted on 07/03/2008 7:27:24 AM PDT by allmendream
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