The case of the anti-Mormons

The Deseret News ^ | 6/30/2008 | Scott D. Pierce

[Utah Girl]

Viewers of tonight's season premiere of "History Detectives" will learn that a book about the horrors of "Female Life Among the Mormons" is a work of fiction.

And the woman who owns the 1856 volume will be "disappointed" by that news.

"History Detectives" (8 p.m., Ch. 7) is a fascinating series in which historical objects are examined to determine if they're authentic. (Tonight's other two segments feature a World War II diary and a coin shot by Annie Oakley.)

In the case of the 1856 book about the horrors of Mormon polygamy, Marcie Waterman Murray of Stanfordville, N.Y., bought it at an auction and wants to know who wrote it. (There's no author listed.)

"I was very moved by this book. It really stayed with me a long time. I've become fascinated with it," Murray says.

What stayed with her is a barbaric account, written in the first person, of a young woman who married a Mormon elder in New York and traveled to Utah with Brigham Young. She suffered the "abominations" of polygamy and the "degradation it imposes on females."

That includes one account of a misbehaving wife who was stripped nude, tied to a tree and whipped until "blood ran to the ground."

Enter Tukufu Zuberi from "History Detectives."

"You don't know if this is a real book. You don't know if it's really from the 19th century. You don't know what it is," Zuberi said in a phone interview with the Deseret News. "But it is a document which definitely offers a skewed view toward marriage among Mormons.

"It puts (women) on the level of being slaves. You can take it as something that's either laughable, looking at it today, or something that really provided fuel for those who were anti-Mormon back in the 19th century."

Without detailing the entire episode, Zuberi quickly discovers that this is not a genuine history. Among other things, it purports to tell the story of Joseph Smith's death and gets it flat-out wrong.

And the show's conclusions are clear. "It seems that our book is little more than pulp fiction, and shot through with historical errors," Zuberi says in the show.

The segment briefly outlines 19th-century LDS history, including the effort to demonize Mormons.

"Someone could write it today in order to kind of speak badly of the Mormons," Zuberi said. "Someone could've written it then to speak badly of the Mormons. And that's our task — to find out."

He does his best to track down the author, including using "some high-tech stuff to determine who wrote the book and determine the authenticity or lack thereof."

"This one I was surprised by. The Mormon story has a lot of twists and turns."

In 21st-century Utah, "Female Life Among the Mormons" seems silly, even campy. But, obviously, the book's owner thought — perhaps hoped — it was genuine.

Upon learning that it's fiction, she gasps and says, "I'm actually a little disappointed. But I'm glad to know the truth."

But it certainly seemed as if she would've been more glad if Mormon women really had been tied to trees and whipped.

[fproy2222]

Furthermore, I have seen you pull this tactic again and again on the forum. You demand Christians to answer your questions, but without citing scripture because you claim (falsely) that Christians ask Mormons to defend their faith without using Mormon scripture, which is absolutely false.

++++++++++++++++++++++++

I just want to know why you think you are right instead you tell me over and over and over that I am wrong.

WHY ARE YOU RIGHT?

[SkyPilot]

I just want to know why you think you are right instead you tell me over and over and over that I am wrong. WHY ARE YOU RIGHT?

I'll give you three reasons:

1. Chapter 33 of this link points out the problems of Mormonism is explicit detail. Click on Chapter 33

2. Because He was and is right: "For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible." Matthew 24: 24
//////// "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6

3. And he was wrong: I have more to boast of than any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such work as I (History of the Church, Vol.6, pp. 408-09). Joseph Smith, May, 1844

[SkyPilot]

One more reason, and for this one you can buy me that diet coke:

Reconcile this dilemma.....

Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. Acts 4:10-12

___________________________________________________________________

"No salvation without accepting Joseph Smith.... If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth ... then this knowledge is of the most vital importance to the entire world. No man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he can not enter the Kingdom of God." Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1

[humblegunner]

the Book of Mormon has so many other things in it to study (such as Christ visiting the Americas after his death)

Yes, fiction is fun to read sometimes.

[greyfoxx39]

placemark

[Tennessee Nana]

the American Indians and the Great White Father
_______________________________________________

The Indians called the President of the United States “the Great White Father”

Why would the Indians call an Arab “white”

Jesus wasnt white...

Remember the mormons say that the American Indians were Jews from Israel...

Since Jesus was a Jew and therefore looked like them and would have been bronze like them...

The “Great White Father” story doesnt hold paint..

[SkyPilot]

The Utah territory was the first to let women vote.

Well, first of all UG that is not true.

But secondly, I keep seeing this repeated "reaching" by the LDS members here on Free Republic. I suspect you all are pinging and Freepmail each other. Nothing wrong with that, the Christians do the same thing. The problem I have is that we are fed (daily) this LDS diet of half truths and propaganda.

When we oppose it, we care called "bigots", or worse.

Moreover, the threads you all are peddling are all of the same theme - to wit - Mormonism is true and there is "evidence" for it.

The problem is, the "evidence" does not stand up to scrutiny.

I have heard you post that you prayed, and the spirit told you Mormonism is true.

Be careful what "spirit" you are listening too. Satan prowls the earth as a lion ready to devour, and the Evil One has false signals and signs everywhere. Jesus said so.

Take care.

[Marysecretary]

You can’t prove He’s the Christ to anyone. That’s the job of the Holy Spirit. People will believe what they WANT to believe, or what they’ve been taught to believe. Only God, through the HS, can pierce those errors.

[Marysecretary]

Excellent post. Thanks.

[Marysecretary]

Exactly. Good answer, SP.

[fproy2222]

You can’t prove He’s the Christ to anyone. That’s the job of the Holy Spirit. People will believe what they WANT to believe, or what they’ve been taught to believe. Only God, through the HS, can pierce those errors.

+++++++++++

I have gotten this same answer from different people who cannot agree on what God's word in the Bible says.

Does God, through the Holy Spirit teach different things to different people?

[fproy2222]

Again, you tell me why I am wrong, not why you are right.

[Gamecock]

+++Does God, through the Holy Spirit teach different things to different people?+++

Nope. That’s why Mormonism is wrong.

Next question.

[SkyPilot]

Again, you tell me why I am wrong, not why you are right.

Yawn.

Same old tactic over and over again with you.

I gave you ample evidence, with four parts, in those two posts, and you cannot even dispute or debate any of it?

Now you demand more?

Ha!

How about you justify your church's actions in THIS.

[fproy2222]

Again, you tell me why I am wrong, not why you are right.
Yawn.

=+=+=

Same old tactic over and over again with you.

I gave you ample evidence, with four parts, in those two posts, and you cannot even dispute or debate any of it?

Now you demand more?

Ha!

How about you justify your church's actions in THIS.

+++++++++++++++++++++++

Instead of answering my question to my understanding, you tell me to justify my beliefs.

This thread is not for me to justify my beliefs, it is for you to teach me why you are right, so that I can understand.

But I think it is time to give up on the hope that you will answer my question to my understand.

[SkyPilot]

This thread is not for me to justify my beliefs, it is for you to teach me why you are right, so that I can understand.

Baloney.

I presented two specific quotes: one from Christ Himself, and one from Joseph Smith who claimed he was greater than Christ.

Tell me again which one of us fails to understand or answer that question?

[Alice in Wonderland]

The book can be read online:

FEMALE LIFE AMONG THE MORMONS: A NARRATIVE OF MANY YEARS' PERSONAL EXPERIENCE. BY THE WIFE OF A MORMON ELDER, RECENTLY FROM UTAH.

[RFEngineer]

“Basically, I know the Book of Mormon is true because I have read it, prayed about it, and received an answer from the Spirit that it is true.”

This is immaterial. The folks on this thread (and the unending stream of anti-Mormon threads before it) do not want you to be able to practice your religion, because they do not like it.

I think they are threatened by all the good works your religion performs - which puts most of them to shame when it comes to “judging the tree by it’s fruit”.

Don’t bother defending your religion. Your good work for Mormons and non-Mormons in times of need speaks volumes for its adherants, and its detractors

[RFEngineer]

“Moreover, the threads you all are peddling are all of the same theme - to wit - Mormonism is true and there is “evidence” for it.”

Why don’t you simply ignore it? I don’t believe Mormonism, but I rail against the intolerance you display in this post whenever I see it. For some reason I never see Mormons posting intolerant rants against other people’s religions. I’m sure I could have missed it, but I just don’t see it.

Speaks volumes about them, and the anti-Mormon cabal, doesn’t it?

“When we oppose it, we care called “bigots”, or worse.”

You’re not a bigot, you are simply intolerant of other religions - something unacceptable in these United States.

“Be careful what “spirit” you are listening too. Satan prowls the earth as a lion ready to devour, and the Evil One has false signals and signs everywhere. Jesus said so.”

Look in the mirror and tell me if you see the “Evil One” lurking. You can get rid of him by simply accepting that there are different religions in this country, and Mormonism is one of them.

[fproy2222]

There are a lot of people here at FR that are very good at telling me why I am wrong without being able to convey why they are right.