PCUSA Assembly Approves Deleting Gay Clergy Ban

There are good, conservative Presbyterian denominations, that true Christians who honor God’s word can flee to.

1: 1 Tim 2:5--For there is One God and one Mediator between God and men, The Man Christ Jesus.

I didn't see Mary mentioned there. Have you prayed to her this week? Have you prayed to a "saint" this week? The Bible says I'm a saint, have you prayed to me yet?

Exodus 20:3-5-----Do you have carved images? Do you have statues in your yard? On the sides of roads?

Do you pray Hail Mary's and Our Fathers? How many times? Mat 6:7

1 Tim 3:2----A bishop should be the husband of one wife. Are your Bishops married or have they been forbidden to marry,( 1 Tim 4:3-4) Had any pork on Friday's? In fact, just read the whole of the letters to Timothy as he explains the makeup up the church and see if the structure is different from the Catholic church.

There is no mention of popes, nuns, cardinals, monks, or purgatory.

I mean I could go on and on, but you get the picture by now. Catholic dogma is made up out of whole cloth. There is no mention of Peter the pope anywhere in Scripture. You misread the passage of what the Church is founded on. The "rock" of Jesus' Church is the recognition that Jesus is the Christ, not that Peter guessed correctly. Jesus was saying His Church would be of people that were "told" by God that Jesus was Christ. You cannot know this without the Holy Spirit telling you that. Dead people cannot know Spiritual things. Peter had nothing to do with it other than as an example. Does any of the Apostles do any ring kissing with Peter? Does anybody kiss Peter's ring or anything else. Since there is no pope mentioned, I don't think so. You have faith that your church wouldn't lie to you even though everything in Scripture is to the contrary.

God does discuss churches that don't follow Him. One of them is called the "Whore of Babylon". Why call it that? It is a church that was bought and sold by kings of the earth from the beginning. Money could buy almost anything from this church. Pay enough money and you too can get to Heaven. Just read Revelation 17 and learn who she is and what will happen to her. Rome is called the "city of 7 hills".

I realize all this is a waste of time because Catholics will defend their denomination before they defend the Word of God. Don't waste your time trying to impress me with some obscure writings from 14th century scribes explaining away these verses. I choose the Word of God over someone that murdered people on the rack and took money to get people to heaven. All I ever get back from Catholic "scholars" is some scribbles from men because they cannot use the Word of God to back up their blasphemous pagan practices.

Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and receive not her plagues. (Rev 18:4)

Notice Rev 2 starts the warnings to the churches, yet God felt a special need to talk of the Harlot church. If you are a Catholic, there is no doubt you have heard of Mary worship and idol worship charges from other Christians. Yet you absolutely reject any Scripture, any reason among thinking people and defend the denomination, not the Word of God. This is NO DIFFERENT than finding some obscure reason to promote homosexual behavior in the PCUSA or abortion in other churches like Obama's old church. God's Word says what it says and means what it says. The wart on the nose is Mary worship and bowing to statues, yet all I get is Jesus turning water to wine cause mommy asked Him too and other made up stuff that is such a stretch, it's hard to swallow. Every year, you can see people marching down streets in Mexico, Spain, S. America, almost anywhere in the world carrying statues of Mary or some other image of people. God specifically forbids this multiple times in Scripture, yet you see "no problemo".

I believe there will be a special punishment for teacher of this abomination. God is a jealous God and will not forgive blasphemy against His Son. Jesus Gave His life on the cross and He is to be worshiped, no one else. 1Tim 2:5 says there is only one Person to pray to. No one else can hear you or forgive you. A priest cannot have any effect on your forgiveness, so why say multiple prayers to a dead woman that cannot hear you and cannot forgive anything? The madness has even gone to denying that Mary ever even had sex and died a virgin. The Bible even states Jesus had brothers and names them, yet you are not swayed. You are drunk on the whores wine and cannot see anymore. The final straw should be that you can be saved if you are just a "good" person. I've heard that is becoming church policy now. I hope I'm wrong, but I'm hearing that Catholics are saying "good" Muslims, Buddhists, Hindu's, ect, can be saved without Jesus. Where is the line drawn for you? We can all chime in on the PCUSA, but what about your denomination? What is your limit? Where is your "breaking point"? Seeing the pope kiss the Koran was enough proof for me they are beyond nuts.

I know your blood is boiling, and I don't write these things to anger people, but I feel compelled as a Christian to try to shed light on the lies of cults to give people a chance to follow the narrow path. Just the fact that you are angered at someone for talking about the Catholic denomination shows an unnatural connection to a man made thing and traditions of men. For me, we could be discussing Mormonism, Islam, JW's, or any of numerous other religions. The PCUSA is just the tip of the iceberg and a symptom of a much larger problem. The loyalty to a denomination over Jesus Christ is the problem. Swerving from the Bible's teaching is the symptom. I don't glory in the problems the PCUSA is having. The Methodist's and many others are having the same problems. All the while Catholics are so wrong, they can't even recognize they are in the same boat and have been for centuries. Salvation is a personal thing. It doesn't come from joining a church or denomination. God will be looking to your personal relationship to His Son, not what denomination you are. Blindly following a fallen belief system even in good faith won't get anywhere when God judges what you did with the sacrifice of Jesus. He won't be pleased you worshiped Mary and other idols thinking that somehow would please Him. He specifically forbade the practice and in many separate Scriptures. Can you honestly say, "I didn't know". Can the PCUSA honestly say they didn't know homosexuality is an abomination to God, yet they put them in the pulpit? Error is error no matter who says it isn't. The Scriptures are our guide, not man's teaching.

“Bwaaaa ha ha ha ha!!!!” -Satan

Aargh! My denomination is at it again. Now I understand why one of the biggest PCUSA churches in my Pittsburgh area successfully voted to disaffiliate last year.

C'mon over to the PCA. The water's fine.

This is no different that talking to Catholics. You can quote Scripture till you are blue in the face and they defend their denomination and curse Scripture

really Chuck? Which "Catholics" are doing that?

There is no mention of popes, nuns, cardinals, monks, or purgatory.

Let's see.... well no kiding that popes, monks, nuns are not in the Bible. Purgatory is in the old and new testament. see: http://www.catholicapologetics.info/apologetics/general/purgatry.htm Please show me in the Bible where faith alone is going to get you into heaven? Show me where word alone is in the Bible?

Just for my information:

” that would delete the requirement that clergy live in “fidelity within the covenant of marriage between and a man and a woman, or chastity in singleness” – to the denomination’s 173 presbyteries for approval.”

Where be that little dity in the Bible of Sola Scriptura?

If sola is personal interpretation, who are you to tell them they are wrong?

I’ve heard they prayed about their “revelation.”

Another one down the slippery slope.

I don't find any websites in my Bible. Would you have the “Book of Snopes” in yours? I don't care what men have said, as I said in my posts. We have people in pulpits today selling the masses Marxism, abortion, and homosexuality. I'm interested what GOD SAYS. The arguments the Catholic apologists have mean nothing to me unless they can show me Scripture. That was my whole point. Frankly, I've already heard most of them, that's why I'm not a Catholic.

I don't find any websites in my Bible.

Well you obviously are afraid to look at the website because it actually quotes scripture.

We have people in pulpits today selling the masses Marxism, abortion, and homosexuality. I'm interested what GOD SAYS.

And that is why I am not protestant anymore.

The arguments the Catholic apologists have mean nothing to me unless they can show me Scripture.

perhaps they have shown you scripture to back it up and you are afraid to look for yourself.

PS. Your faith is what saves you. I'm not going to read your Bible for you. That was the challenge I gave to the apostate churches. Obama finds homosexual marriage in the Sermon on the Mount. I could site verse after verse after verse to prove that's not so, even to quoting Word for Word the Sermon on the Mount, but he believes it's the right thing, so it must be somewhere in there. No amount of contortions can make something appear that isn't there. If you read your Bible with preconceived ideas, you can make almost anything appear in the verses.

The sick and blind people Jesus cured were not cured for the sake of curing them. It was to show their faith cured them. Sickness is their sin and Jesus is the cure. If Jesus was in the sickness curing business, He could have remained in Heaven and spoke the Word and all would be cured. His point was a "parable" of sorts to show their faith in Him saved them, not in this life necessarily, but in the next.

The Thief on the cross could do no works, join any church, and paid no tithe, yet he was in paradise with Jesus that day. His faith Jesus was who He said He was was what saved him.

I won't go verse by verse to prove counter points here. There isn't enough time to argue about obvious things. The purpose of me posting anything here is to try and get individuals to examine their belief system and compare it to the Bible. The God of the Bible will be who they will appear before to account for their lives. If they are content with their beliefs, there is nothing more to be said. The PCUSA will go to their maker knowing they supported and followed a teaching from Satan. The Bible specifically speaks of "doctrines of demons" being to forbid to marry and forbid certain foods. Does your church do this? The Scripture that says disciples maybe shouldn't take a wife is just speaking of the hardships their travels put on the believer. If the believer is tempted while on his mission, he should marry. Forbidding to marry is contrary to God's will for the human race.

Again, I have other stuff to do besides counter every argument people want to make for the sake of argument. Most here can read as well as I can. It would be simple to attack the PCUSA and move on, but my heart is hurt by so many that are deceived. They aren't the only ones that have been deceived and they shouldn't feel hurt by it but grateful God has given them a chance to find a Bible believing church before it's too late. How many of us looked closer at our own church when Obama's church was in the spotlight? It's easy to scoff at his problems until we look at our own. When the light of Scripture is shown on his church, the warts and scabs shown like neon lights in a bar. He went 20 years and never saw a problem. Have any of us looked at what is regurgitated week after week, or do we just repeat the same brainwashing vomit we learned as a child? I don't get my Spiritual info from websites but from the Holy Spirit who instructs me in Scripture reading.

We marvel at the fall of America's character, yet we don't even know what is written in God's instructions and vote people in office that don't know God and in fact hate Him. Is it pride or a spirit of rebellion? No one wants to be wrong, but pride will doom your soul, your families souls, and the soul of our country. If you are still in rebellion to God, then you aren't saved in the first place. God says things, you follow those things. It very simple and anyone should be able to understand that concept. If the pope or some council decree's something contrary to the Bible Scripture, are you double minded? Do you have 2 masters? Which do you choose? The PCUSA has that choice right now. The truth is we all have those choices every day. They are just more in the limelight right now. It's important to know the God of the Bible, not some hippie flower child, made up god invented in someones mind. God's judgment is coming and is closer than we think. Yes, God loves us, but he will destroy His enemies. He says plainly who loves Him and who hates Him. The "lukewarmers" are in the same boat as haters. Trying to contort some verse in the Bible to mean what you want, isn't going to look good to the Author of the verse.

The reason I say these things is the same reason they call us "evangelicals". Not to hurt, but to save. What you do with it is up to you. Telling a homosexual that is unrepentant he is going to hell isn't hate speech, but an act of love. I couldn't tell someone it's OK to steal, or commit adultery, or even to murder without "hating" them. We most likely agree on abortion being murder, but look at the percentage of "Christians" that vote for this? Are we to say," It's OK to have a difference of opinion on this"? Obama says he will bring the country together if elected. I'm glad to hear they will ban abortion, stop homosexual marriage, bring prayer and Bible study back to schools, etc. Otherwise I can't see a single reason to agree with Satan worshipers. As a matter of fact, I predict more trouble in this country than we've seen since the "60's.

OK, That's enough. You can go now. Read your Bible!

How said our Presbyterian brethren in Christ would appear to be moving further aware from Christian orthodoxy in moral teaching.

This may be the answer to your long standing question.

Oh?

Do they have a 170+ yo history of their belief changes?

The vote comes a day after the Assembly approved a proposal to begin revising the Heidelberg Catechism – a document of the Reformed Christian faith – which would include removing the reference to "homosexual perversion" among a list of sinful behaviors.

Genesis 13:13 Now the men of Sodom were wicked and were sinning greatly against the LORD.

Genesis 18:20-21
20. Then the LORD said, "The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous
21. that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know."

Genesis 19:4-7
4. Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom--both young and old--surrounded the house.
5. They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."
6. Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him
7. and said, "No, my friends. Don't do this wicked thing.

Psalms 12:8 The wicked freely strut about when what is vile is honored among men.

Ain't this just FABULOUS?? More?

Isaiah 3:9 The look on their faces testifies against them; they parade their sin like Sodom; they do not hide it. Woe to them! They have brought disaster upon themselves.

2 Peter 2:13b Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.

Ezekiel 16:49-50
49. "`Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.
50. They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.

2 Peter 2

1. But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.
2. Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
3. In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.
4. For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment;
5. if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others;
6. if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;
7. and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless men
8. (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)--
9. if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment.
10. This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the sinful nature and despise authority. Bold and arrogant, these men are not afraid to slander celestial beings;
11. yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not bring slanderous accusations against such beings in the presence of the Lord.
12. But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish.
13. They will be paid back with harm for the harm they have done. Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.

But there IS hope!!!

1 Corinthians 6:9-11

9. Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived:
Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders
10. nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
11. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

If you could NOT change, you would be in most pitiful shape.....

1: 1 Tim 2:5--For there is One God and one Mediator between God and men, The Man Christ Jesus.

I didn't see Mary mentioned there. Have you prayed to her this week? Have you prayed to a "saint" this week? The Bible says I'm a saint, have you prayed to me yet?

hmmm.... Nope, I only pray to God -- I ask Mother Mary and the saints to pray for me. The Bible says you're a saint, eh?

Exodus 20:3-5-----Do you have carved images? Do you have statues in your yard? On the sides of roads?

Nope, I don't pray to statues -- you think that 3 dimensional images are haram, eh? So, if you had the Bamiyan Buddhas in your neighbourhood and no-one was praying to them but they were just works of art, you'd take tanks to blow them up, right?

Do you pray Hail Mary's and Our Fathers? How many times? Mat 6:7

You have a problem with the prayer "Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name? Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done..." -- which part do you disagree with? the part about God's will to be done?

1 Tim 3:2----A bishop should be the husband of one wife. Are your Bishops married or have they been forbidden to marry,( 1 Tim 4:3-4) Had any pork on Friday's? In fact, just read the whole of the letters to Timothy as he explains the makeup up the church and see if the structure is different from the Catholic church.

You want married bishops? How about Gene Robinson -- you like that too, I guess? And you like pork? good for you.

There is no mention of popes, nuns, cardinals, monks, or purgatory.

There's no mention of bishops? remember that the pope is a bishop. Also, is there any mention of airplanes or the USA?

I mean I could go on and on, but you get the picture by now. Catholic dogma is made up out of whole cloth. There is no mention of Peter the pope anywhere in Scripture. You misread the passage of what the Church is founded on. The "rock" of Jesus' Church is the recognition that Jesus is the Christ, not that Peter guessed correctly. Jesus was saying His Church would be of people that were "told" by God that Jesus was Christ. You cannot know this without the Holy Spirit telling you that. Dead people cannot know Spiritual things. Peter had nothing to do with it other than as an example. Does any of the Apostles do any ring kissing with Peter? Does anybody kiss Peter's ring or anything else. Since there is no pope mentioned, I don't think so. You have faith that your church wouldn't lie to you even though everything in Scripture is to the contrary.

There is mention of Peter as the leader of the Apostles. The Pope as the Bishop of Rome prevents it from falling into apostasy like the ECUSA, the PCUSA, the Moonies, Mormons, Jehovah's witnesses, Unitarians or any other Protestant grouping. "Dead people cannot know Spiritual things." --So, you don't believe in the afterlife? You don't believe that the dead will rise into heaven? "Does any of the Apostles do any ring kissing with Peter? " Do any of the Apostles light a fire with a lighter?

God does discuss churches that don't follow Him. One of them is called the "Whore of Babylon". Why call it that? It is a church that was bought and sold by kings of the earth from the beginning. Money could buy almost anything from this church. Pay enough money and you too can get to Heaven. Just read Revelation 17 and learn who she is and what will happen to her. Rome is called the "city of 7 hills".

"God does discuss churches that don't follow Him. One of them is called the "Whore of Babylon". "-- That's a perfect example of sola scriptura -- the ability of individuals to make silly misinterpretations -- the wob referred to is the pagan Roman Empire -- you do know that there is a difference and that there was a Roman empire and there is a separate Apostolic Catholic Church? "Money could buy almost anything from this church. Pay enough money and you too can get to Heaven." your interpretation sounds suspiciously like one of those mega-groupings, like Benny Hill or some other painted Protestant standing up and pretending to preach.

I realize all this is a waste of time because Catholics will defend their denomination before they defend the Word of God. Don't waste your time trying to impress me with some obscure writings from 14th century scribes explaining away these verses. I choose the Word of God over someone that murdered people on the rack and took money to get people to heaven. All I ever get back from Catholic "scholars" is some scribbles from men because they cannot use the Word of God to back up their blasphemous pagan practices.

"I realize all this is a waste of time because Catholics will defend their denomination before they defend the Word of God" The Church is not a denomination -- all breakaway sects (Protestants like Baptists, Calvinists, Moonies, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc.) are denominations. Don't waste your time trying to impress me with some obscure writings from 14th century scribes explaining away these verses. Nope, our writings are those of the Apostles, 14th century and later stuff is all Protester stuff.

Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and receive not her plagues. (Rev 18:4)

Notice Rev 2 starts the warnings to the churches, yet God felt a special need to talk of the Harlot church. If you are a Catholic, there is no doubt you have heard of Mary worship and idol worship charges from other Christians. Yet you absolutely reject any Scripture, any reason among thinking people and defend the denomination, not the Word of God. This is NO DIFFERENT than finding some obscure reason to promote homosexual behavior in the PCUSA or abortion in other churches like Obama's old church. God's Word says what it says and means what it says. The wart on the nose is Mary worship and bowing to statues, yet all I get is Jesus turning water to wine cause mommy asked Him too and other made up stuff that is such a stretch, it's hard to swallow. Every year, you can see people marching down streets in Mexico, Spain, S. America, almost anywhere in the world carrying statues of Mary or some other image of people. God specifically forbids this multiple times in Scripture, yet you see "no problemo".

I believe there will be a special punishment for teacher of this abomination. God is a jealous God and will not forgive blasphemy against His Son. Jesus Gave His life on the cross and He is to be worshiped, no one else. 1Tim 2:5 says there is only one Person to pray to. No one else can hear you or forgive you. A priest cannot have any effect on your forgiveness, so why say multiple prayers to a dead woman that cannot hear you and cannot forgive anything? The madness has even gone to denying that Mary ever even had sex and died a virgin. The Bible even states Jesus had brothers and names them, yet you are not swayed. You are drunk on the whores wine and cannot see anymore. The final straw should be that you can be saved if you are just a "good" person. I've heard that is becoming church policy now. I hope I'm wrong, but I'm hearing that Catholics are saying "good" Muslims, Buddhists, Hindu's, ect, can be saved without Jesus. Where is the line drawn for you? We can all chime in on the PCUSA, but what about your denomination? What is your limit? Where is your "breaking point"? Seeing the pope kiss the Koran was enough proof for me they are beyond nuts.

"The Bible even states Jesus had brothers and names them," and in the Middle East today and South Asia, people refers to their cousins (1st, 2nd, etc) as their brothers and sisters. you look at things through your modern eyes, like the PCUSA.

I know your blood is boiling, and I don't write these things to anger people, but I feel compelled as a Christian to try to shed light on the lies of cults to give people a chance to follow the narrow path. Just the fact that you are angered at someone for talking about the Catholic denomination shows an unnatural connection to a man made thing and traditions of men. For me, we could be discussing Mormonism, Islam, JW's, or any of numerous other religions. The PCUSA is just the tip of the iceberg and a symptom of a much larger problem. The loyalty to a denomination over Jesus Christ is the problem. Swerving from the Bible's teaching is the symptom. I don't glory in the problems the PCUSA is having. The Methodist's and many others are having the same problems. All the while Catholics are so wrong, they can't even recognize they are in the same boat and have been for centuries. Salvation is a personal thing. It doesn't come from joining a church or denomination. God will be looking to your personal relationship to His Son, not what denomination you are. Blindly following a fallen belief system even in good faith won't get anywhere when God judges what you did with the sacrifice of Jesus. He won't be pleased you worshiped Mary and other idols thinking that somehow would please Him. He specifically forbade the practice and in many separate Scriptures. Can you honestly say, "I didn't know". Can the PCUSA honestly say they didn't know homosexuality is an abomination to God, yet they put them in the pulpit? Error is error no matter who says it isn't. The Scriptures are our guide, not man's teaching

They seem to be turning to dust.

In fact, the Catholic Church has a better "handle" on Scripture than any Protestant denomination. After all, they compiled it

Ha! In what ways, things like purgatory or praying to anyone other than God--ideas without one iota of support in scripture?

The books of the New Testament were written and compiled long before any Bishop of Rome claimed supremacy over the Church of Jesus Christ.

The whole idea that Rome created the bible is a medieval myth compiled by the Roman Curia to prop up and consolidate their power, political and religious....

Rome is the original compiler of extra-biblical religious beliefs.

"Ha! In what ways, things like purgatory or praying to anyone other than God--ideas without one iota of support in scripture?"

See Maccabees for purgatory. Oh, that's right, Martin Luther deleted THOSE books from the Bible, without any authority to do so, using the post-Christ "Old Testament" canon set up by the Jews in 100AD--which canon was NOT what was used by either Christ or his apostles. And I suggest you look up the meaning of the terms "dulia" and "latria" to discern the difference between "praying to God", and "praying to Mary and the Saints".

"The books of the New Testament were written and compiled long before any Bishop of Rome claimed supremacy over the Church of Jesus Christ."

Since Peter was the first "Bishop of Rome", and the leader of the Apostles, Rome has AWAYS claimed (and had) supremacy over the "Church of Jesus Christ".

"The whole idea that Rome created the bible is a medieval myth compiled by the Roman Curia to prop up and consolidate their power, political and religious....

Wrong. The canon of the Bible was set by Catholic bishops.

"Rome is the original compiler of extra-biblical religious beliefs."

Yup---there "are" a very few "extra-biblical religious beliefs", like the doctrine of the Trinity (and the canon of Scripture itself).

In other words, all your "points" are the standard Protestant propaganda--unsupported by the Bible, Tradition, or history.