The use of KJV English in the Book of Mormon

Deseret News via FairLDS ^ | 1961 | Hugh Nibley

[Notwithstanding]

Well, Saundra, I did not say I hated you.

I said I admired your virtue, but despise the cowardice of Mormons when it comes to examining Mormon doctrine.

If I did not love Mormons I would simply smile politely and pretend Mormon beliefs are not offensive to God, placing social graces before eternal truths.

[greyfoxx39]

Popcorn passing for HOGWASH ping.

[vladimir998]

Thanks for that useful link!

[Ron Jeremy]

I have a testimony deep in my heart of the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon.

In all seriousness, does this deep testimony in your heart explain how translation errors from the KJV made it into the Book of Mormon? I have been asking that simple question for days and nobody will answer it.

[Ron Jeremy]

How much of the Book of Mormon uses passages also found in the Bible? You don’t know, do you? Well for your information it is less than 10%.

Yes, but: The KJV was not perfect, and it had many translation errors. Some of those errors made their way into the book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon claims to be an ancient text. How do you reconcile it being an ancient text with it having translation errors copied over from the KJV? I have been asking that for days, and nobody will answer.

All you’re doing is taking someone else’s fall statements and repeating them. If Joseph Smith “made up” the other 90+ % then he was much smarter than you give him credit for.

He was a very smart man. Genius, in fact.

[ravenwolf]

In all seriousness, does this deep testimony in your heart explain how translation errors from the KJV made it into the Book of Mormon?

Which one,s do you call translation errors?

[TheDon]

There are lots of worthwhile articles written by traditional Christians about traditional Christianity too. :-)

[ravenwolf]

There is no way that I could believe in the book of mormon,
because I believe in Jesus Christ and his apostles, not josepth Smith, and also the book of mormon forbids a man to have more than one wife, but i do like the mormons I have met and I have met a lot of them.

can anyone show me where the bible forbids any man except the bishops and Deacons to have more than one wife?

[greyfoxx39]

More about Hugh Nibley..... SALT LAKE CITY -- Although the Mormon Church is one of the wealthiest and fastest-growing Christian denominations, members of the faith often take a defensive stance toward the outside world. "Mormons of every stripe are obsessive about their image," historians Richard and Joan Ostling noted, "deeply concerned that their church appears to outsiders as a 'cult.' "

In the ongoing effort to enhance the church's image, no Mormon played a bigger role than Hugh Nibley, the multilingual teacher and scholar whose books, laden with footnotes and laced with quotations from ancient texts, make a meticulous argument that Mormon scripture reflects historic truth.

But this spring, (2005) the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has been rocked by a furious attack on the beloved historian -- an attack that comes from his daughter, Martha Nibley Beck.

In an explosive memoir, Beck, 42, says that Nibley was a pedophile who abused her as a child while chanting ancient Egyptian prayers.

She also says that her father's history books were fictional and that the extensive footnotes for which he was famous were simply made up.

Daughter's Denunciation of Historian Roils Mormon Church

Of course, there has been and continues to be a "furious attack" on Martha Beck by the LDS.

These threads posting whole books and articles by "revered mormon scholars" would have you believe that the authors are literally saints.

They, like Joseph Smith and Brigham were all too human.

[whipitgood]

Hey Ron,
Please ping me with your responses to the question of KJV errors in LDS scripture.

[Jeff Chandler]

it sounds like someone is trying rather hard to mimic the KJV.

That was my exact impression the first time I read it.

[Spunky]

Thanks for that link. It will help me find things I may not have already found.

Some time back I took the Book of Mormon and color coded the verses that were similar to the bible in blue. The verses from Isaiah in pink. The idea of life after death, from the Westminster Confession of faith,in green. Joseph Smith Senior's dream in the Book of Mormon in another color, idea's from Spauldings Manuscript in another color. Ethan Smith's, View of the Hebrews in orange, etc; Pretty soon the Book of Mormon is very colorful. What is left in white is ramblings on and on trying to make a bigger point of each thing taken from the other sources.

I found it very interesting that Oliver Cowdreys family lived in the same town as Ethan Smith (no relation to Joseph). I also found it very interesting that Oliver Cowdery was a cousin to Lucy Mack Smith (Joseph Smith's mother) but he was the same age as Joseph Smith.

[Saundra Duffy]

Notwithstanding #41 - so now I am an “offense to God”. I love my Heavenly Father and He is not offended by me. He loves me and sent His Son to suffer and die for me. I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is the Head of my Church. Many believe that the Roman Catholic Church is an abomination and a “great whore of all the earth”. How does it make you feel when people say things like that about the Catholic Church? Not pretty, just like I said. When you say I am an “offense to God” THAT is an offense to my Heavenly Father who loves me and sent His Son to suffer and die for me.

Now that I think of it, the Catholic Church and the LDS Church have a lot in common - ignorant people accusing us of ridiculous blasphemy and we are severely persecuted.

When our Prophet Gordon B. Hinckley passed away a few months ago, FReepers on this very site made horrible comments and some of those posts had to be taken down. At that time, LDS Freepers were mourning the loss and the Scripture came to mind, “Mourn with those who mourn” - FReepers exhibiting just the opposite behavior of what Jesus Christ Himself instructed us.

When the Pope passed away, some Catholics suffered the same FReeper persecution.

I remember when the Catholic Church was going through the homosexual/pedophile priest scandal, I was upset and posted some pretty harsh comments until a FReeper Catholic pointed out my sin. I apologized and repented.

You might consider a re-think of your decision to persecute a faith that contains the name of our Savior in its title and which lifts up the Savior constantly which is pleasing to the Holy Ghost and our precious Heavenly Father.

Jesus died for me, too.

P.S. Catholics have been accused of using a blasphemous Bible since the Catholic Bible has EXTRA books in it; i.e., the Maccabees and that Catholics interpret Holy Scriptures in such a way as to elevate the Deity of Mary.

[Ron Jeremy]

Which one,s do you call translation errors?

The following link has the whole list of them. I posted this thread a few days ago and not a single FReeper is willing to answer the question of how KJV translation errors made their way into the BOM.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2033271/posts

[SkyPilot]

Gosh, I remember when this was a conservative political website. I miss the good old days.

So do I. These days, the LDS gang can post entire threads (which they do on a daily basis), label them "Ecumenic" or "Caucus" - and you or I cannot respond in disagreement.

Think I am joking?

Caucus threads are closed to any poster who is not a member of the caucus. For instance, if it says “Catholic Caucus” and you are not Catholic, do not post to the thread. However, if the poster of the caucus invites you, I will not boot you from the thread. The “caucus” article and posts must not compare beliefs or speak in behalf of a belief outside the caucus. Ecumenic threads are closed to antagonism. To antagonize is to incur or to provoke hostility in others

The LDS gang screamed for their own little fenced off sandbox here on FR, and they got it on a silver platter.

Nice, huh?

[Spunky]

"Many believe that the Roman Catholic Church is an abomination and a “great whore of all the earth”."

I Nephi 14 LDS
I Nephi 219 RLDS

[9] And it came to pass that he said unto me: Look, and behold that great and abominable church, which is the mother of abominations, whose founder is the devil. [10] And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth. [12] And it came to pass that I beheld the church of the Lamb of God, and its numbers were few, because of the wickedness and abominations of the whore who sat upon many waters; nevertheless, I beheld that the church of the Lamb, who were the saints of God, were also upon all the face of the earth; and their dominions upon the face of the earth were small, because of the wickedness of the great whore whom I saw. [13] And it came to pass that I beheld that the great mother of abominations did gather together multitudes upon the face of all the earth, among all the nations of the Gentiles, to fight against the Lamb of God.

Saundra, it was your very own LDS and the RLDS who taught that the abominable church and the mother of whores was the Catholic Church. They have gotten away from teaching that in later years, but I imagine there are those in the church (older generation) who still hold to this belief as previous teaching are hard to give up.

[Osage Orange]

Interesting post.....

Thanks-

[Elsie]

 

Which one,s do you call translation errors?

 

#8

 

You have to ask MORMON's just what they mean...

 

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Articles of Faith

The Articles of Faith outline 13 basic points of belief of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
The Prophet Joseph Smith first wrote them in a letter to John Wentworth, a newspaper editor,
in response to Mr. Wentworth's request to know what members of the Church believed.
They were subsequently published in Church periodicals.
They are now regarded as scripture and included in the Pearl of Great Price.

 

 

 

THE ARTICLES OF FAITH
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
History of the Church, Vol. 4, pp. 535—541

 

 

1. We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
   
2. We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.
   
3. We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
   
4. We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
   
5. We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
   
6. We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
   
7. We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
   
8. We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
   
9. We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
   
10. We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
    
11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
    
12. We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
    
13. We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

Joseph Smith

 

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Definitions of creed:

• From the Latin word "credere" -- to believe. A short statement of religious belief, usually motivated by a desire to emphasize church teaching as opposed to a heresy.
• A formal summary of religious belief; an authoritative statement of doctrine
• Any system of principles or beliefs
• Religious doctrine: the written body of teachings of a religious group that are generally accepted by that group
• A creed is a statement or confession of belief — usually religious belief — or faith.
• A statement of religious beliefs agreed by the church to be true.
• A system of religious beliefs, including moral or ethical beliefs about right and wrong, that are sincerely held with the strength of traditional religious views.
• A statement of faith binding upon a given religious body.
• A statement of faith. 
• A formal statement of religious belief/proclamation of faith 

 

 

[Elsie]

 

 

 

THE FIRST BOOK OF NEPHI
HIS REIGN AND MINISTRY

CHAPTER 14

 

An angel tells Nephi of the blessings and cursings to fall upon the Gentiles—There are only two churches: the Church of the Lamb of God and the church of the devil—The saints of God in all nations are persecuted by the great and abominable church—The apostle John shall write concerning the end of the world. Between 600 and 592 B.C. 

 

   1 And it shall come to pass, that if the Gentiles shall hearken unto the Lamb of God in that day that he shall manifest himself unto them in word, and also in power, in very deed, unto the taking away of their stumbling blocks—
  2 And harden not their hearts against the Lamb of God, they shall be numbered among the seed of thy father; yea, they shall be numbered among the house of Israel; and they shall be a blessed people upon the promised land forever; they shall be no more brought down into captivity; and the house of Israel shall no more be confounded.
  3 And that great pit, which hath been digged for them by that great and abominable church, which was founded by the devil and his children, that he might lead away the souls of men down to hell—yea, that great pit which hath been digged for the destruction of men shall be filled by those who digged it, unto their utter destruction, saith the Lamb of God; not the destruction of the soul, save it be the casting of it into that hell which hath no end.
  4 For behold, this is according to the captivity of the devil, and also according to the justice of God, upon all those who will work wickedness and abomination before him.
  5 And it came to pass that the angel spake unto me, Nephi, saying: Thou hast beheld that if the Gentiles repent it shall be well with them; and thou also knowest concerning the covenants of the Lord unto the house of Israel; and thou also hast heard that whoso repented not must perish.
  6 Therefore, woe be unto the Gentiles if it so be that they harden their hearts against the Lamb of God.
  7 For the time cometh, saith the Lamb of God, that I will work a great and a marvelous work among the children of men; a work which shall be everlasting, either on the one hand or on the other—either to the convincing of them unto peace and life eternal, or unto the deliverance of them to the hardness of their hearts and the blindness of their minds unto their being brought down into captivity, and also into destruction, both temporally and spiritually, according to the captivity of the devil, of which I have spoken.
  8 And it came to pass that when the angel had spoken these words, he said unto me: Rememberest thou the covenants of the Father unto the house of Israel? I said unto him, Yea.
  9 And it came to pass that he said unto me: Look, and behold that great and abominable church, which is the mother of abominations, whose founder is the devil.
  10 And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth.
  11 And it came to pass that I looked and beheld the whore of all the earth, and she sat upon many waters; and she had dominion over ball the earth, among all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people.
  12 And it came to pass that I beheld the church of the Lamb of God, and its numbers were few, because of the wickedness and abominations of the whore who sat upon many waters; nevertheless, I beheld that the church of the Lamb, who were the saints of God, were also upon ball the face of the earth; and their dominions upon the face of the earth were small, because of the wickedness of the great whore whom I saw.
  13 And it came to pass that I beheld that the great mother of abominations did gather together multitudes upon the face of all the earth, among all the nations of the Gentiles, to fight against the Lamb of God.
  14 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, beheld the power of the Lamb of God, that it descended upon the saints of the church of the Lamb, and upon the covenant people of the Lord, who were scattered upon all the face of the earth; and they were armed with righteousness and with the power of God in great glory.
  15 And it came to pass that I beheld that the wrath of God was poured out upon that great and abominable church, insomuch that there were wars and rumors of wars among all the nations and kindreds of the earth.
  16 And as there began to be wars and rumors of wars among all the nations which belonged to the mother of abominations, the angel spake unto me, saying: Behold, the wrath of God is upon the mother of harlots; and behold, thou seest all these things—
  17 And when the day cometh that the wrath of God is poured out upon the mother of harlots, which is the great and abominable church of all the earth, whose founder is the devil, then, at that day, the work of the Father shall commence, in preparing the way for the fulfilling of his covenants, which he hath made to his people who are of the house of Israel.
  18 And it came to pass that the angel spake unto me, saying: Look!
  19 And I looked and beheld a man, and he was dressed in a white robe.
  20 And the angel said unto me: Behold one of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
  21 Behold, he shall see and write the remainder of these things; yea, and also many things which have been.
  22 And he shall also write concerning the end of the world.
  23 Wherefore, the things which he shall write are just and true; and behold they are written in the book which thou beheld proceeding out of the mouth of the Jew; and at the time they proceeded out of the mouth of the Jew, or, at the time the book proceeded out of the mouth of the Jew, the things which were written were plain and pure, and most precious and easy to the understanding of all men.
  24 And behold, the things which this apostle of the Lamb shall write are many things which thou hast seen; and behold, the remainder shalt thou see.
  25 But the things which thou shalt see hereafter thou shalt not write; for the Lord God hath ordained the apostle of the Lamb of God that he should write them.
  26 And also others who have been, to them hath he shown all things, and they have written them; and they are sealed up to come forth in their purity, according to the truth which is in the Lamb, in the own due time of the Lord, unto the house of Israel.
  27 And I, Nephi, heard and bear record, that the name of the apostle of the Lamb was john, according to the word of the angel.
  28 And behold, I, Nephi, am forbidden that I should write the remainder of the things which I saw and heard; wherefore the things which I have written sufficeth me; and I have written but a small part of the things which I saw.
  29 And I bear record that I saw the things which my father saw, and the angel of the Lord did make them known unto me.
  30 And now I make an end of speaking concerning the things which I saw while I was carried away in the spirit; and if all the things which I saw are not written, the things which I have written are true. And thus it is. Amen.

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The Official Scriptures of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
© 2006 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved.

[greyfoxx39]

You might consider a re-think of your decision to persecute a faith that contains the name of our Savior in its title and which lifts up the Savior constantly which is pleasing to the Holy Ghost and our precious Heavenly Father.

Who writes this banal drivel Saundra? They should be fired, whoever it is.

"Faith that contains the name of our Savior".....If that is SO important, why do mormons consistently refer to themselves as "Latter-Day Saints"? Why not "Saints of Christ"? "Saints of Jesus"? Or, more truthfully, "Smithites"?